Pulling into a bus lane for the police

[dadtaxi]

On-going from the 'cant pull over the stop line at traffic lights' controversy I notice this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2658289/Van-driver-pulls-let-police-bikes-pass-hit-512-fine-driving-bus-lane.html has anyone any legal advice on pulling into the bus lane? The only advice I can find on the .guv website is the highway code rule 141:- "Bus lanes. These are shown by road markings and signs that indicate which (if any) other vehicles are permitted to use the bus lane. Unless otherwise indicated, you should not drive in a bus lane during its period of operation. You may enter a bus lane to stop, to load or unload where this is not prohibited." So any idea of the legislation covering this? edit...no idea how to newline let alone paragraph.. sorry

Edited June 15, 2014 by dadtaxi
paragraphs

[renegadeimp]

If the emergency services or other needs to pass you, then pulling into a bus lane safely is a valid exemption. Remember, the cameras will also capture the emergency vehicle as well.

 

The Emergency services and military have right of way on the public highway ( and other areas) in an emergency. All other traffic is secondary and is expected to clear a path for the vehicle(s) to progress. In some cases, emergency vehicles/staff are allowed to move vehicles out of the way by force such as a fire engine pushing aside a vehicle, or the fire staff moving the vehicle themselves, including smashing a window to gain access, or lifting/bumping it to the side.

[renegadeimp]

IIRC Emergency vehicle situations are covered under rule 219 of the highway code.

[dadtaxi]

IIRC Emergency vehicle situations are covered under rule 219 of the highway code.

 

But it says to 'take appropriate action to let it pass, while complying with all traffic signs'. Are not bus lanes indicated by traffic signs? I know this is probably a bit on the OCD scale but Im interested in what actually allows a driver into the bus lane (ie ignore bus lane signage) in this situation. p.s. still cannot new-line

[dadtaxi]

[then pulling into a bus lane safely is a "valid exemption." That's my question in that I cannot find a actual 'valid exception' under the legislation , Any pointers?

[renegadeimp]

If the bus lane extends a good distance away, then theres no problem pulling to one side and letting them pass. If the lanes about to end, then simply reach the end and move over.

 

Afaik there is no specific law that deals with it. It's more of a courtesy, however, you could be done for driving without due care and attention.

 

Also: http://www.bluelightaware.org.uk/

 

Also, if you are still unsure, and the road is clear ahead, maintain the correct speed until you consider it safe to pull to one side and allow the vehicle to pass.

 

Then theres http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/38 para 7

 

 

In short, there may not be a direct piece of legislation, but if you wilfully hold up the vehicle, they could theoretically get you for a number of things. Hell, where i live, they'd probably try getting you under The Police Act 1996, Section 89

[Raykay]

 

The Emergency services and military have right of way on the public highway ( and other areas) in an emergency. All other traffic is secondary and is expected to clear a path for the vehicle(s) to progress. In some cases, emergency vehicles/staff are allowed to move vehicles out of the way by force such as a fire engine pushing aside a vehicle, or the fire staff moving the vehicle themselves, including smashing a window to gain access, or lifting/bumping it to the side.

 

They have no more right of way than anybody else, they do have some exemptions from some Road Traffic Act matters, but not to force their way through.

[Raykay]

[then pulling into a bus lane safely is a "valid exemption." That's my question in that I cannot find a actual 'valid exception' under the legislation , Any pointers?

 

It is not an exemption, as quoted earlier from s.219 Highway Code 'while complying with all traffic signs'.

[Jamberson]

I can't imagine there is an adjudicator in the country who would enforce a PCN incurred in such a situation. Someone's life might be at stake if you hold an emergency vehicle up. In situations like that the law tends to take a common sense view - like if you stopped on a yellow line to help someone who'd been run over - they'd have to be mad to enforce the regs in such cases.

[renegadeimp]

They have no more right of way than anybody else, they do have some exemptions from some Road Traffic Act matters, but not to force their way through.

 

Say that to the Emergency services or military if there is a major emergency. Even though its not law, they have the power to do what they need to do in order to reach the scene. Many emergency personnel dont do it, however, Military can and will. Military such as MP or emergency medical personnel.

[Raykay]

Even though its not law, they have the power to do what they need to do in order to reach the scene.

 

 

 

Except where legislation gives them exemption, they are required to comply with the relevant legislation the same as everyone else. They have no other powers.

[green_and_mean]

Police and other emergency services can use the bus lane if they so wish so pulling over is not necessary, a vehicle is no more permitted to drive in it for such reason than it would to drive along the footway. Its not normal to pull into a bus lane to let buses overtake or taxis for that matter so why do it for any other exempted vehicle. In the scenario in the Mail it only looks like an escort group and therefore not in an emergency situation and as they're bikes they would not be hindered or unable to overtake if he had stayed in the correct lane anyway, if fact when he enters the bus lane the bikes are several hundred metres behind him and he was causing no obstruction to them thats if he had even seen them rather than use them as an excuse after seeing the photos.

[dadtaxi]

I can't imagine there is an adjudicator in the country who would enforce a PCN incurred in such a situation. Someone's life might be at stake if you hold an emergency vehicle up. In situations like that the law tends to take a common sense view - like if you stopped on a yellow line to help someone who'd been run over - they'd have to be mad to enforce the regs in such cases.

 

 

I agree-so you would think .However what prompted me to ask this question was the recolection of this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.html

 

So a comment sense approch has no bearing on this action. So my question still remains, is there legislation that allows you to move into the bus lane i.e. overides the law that says you must not use the bus lane?

[Conniff]

There is only one way you can be absolved of an offence and that is 'when you are lawfully ordered to my a police officer in uniform'.

 

 

But then again, is it a lawful order if it means you break the law ?

[Raykay]

So my question still remains, is there legislation that allows you to move into the bus lane i.e. overides the law that says you must not use the bus lane?

 

 

Only an exemption that is written into the actual regulations. For example, there is often an exemption for following the directions of a police officer in uniform.

 

 

There is no other legislation that would allow the van driver to enter the bus lane in those circumstances.

[Surfer01]

If the emergency services or other needs to pass you, then pulling into a bus lane safely is a valid exemption. Remember, the cameras will also capture the emergency vehicle as well.

 

The Emergency services and military have right of way on the public highway ( and other areas) in an emergency. All other traffic is secondary and is expected to clear a path for the vehicle(s) to progress. In some cases, emergency vehicles/staff are allowed to move vehicles out of the way by force such as a fire engine pushing aside a vehicle, or the fire staff moving the vehicle themselves, including smashing a window to gain access, or lifting/bumping it to the side.

 

Unfortunately it is not a valid exemption and you are liable for any fine. Anyway why can't the emergency vehicle use the bus lane?

[Jamberson]

I agree-so you would think .However what prompted me to ask this question was the recolection of this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.html

 

So a comment sense approch has no bearing on this action. So my question still remains, is there legislation that allows you to move into the bus lane i.e. overides the law that says you must not use the bus lane?

 

That story is about him getting the fine at all. What I am saying is that if you get a fine or PCN under those circumstances, I would expect it to be cancelled on appeal. There's no mention of an appeal in the story.

[green_and_mean]

I agree-so you would think .However what prompted me to ask this question was the recolection of this article http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1204944/Driver-gets-60-fine-moving-yard-red-light-let-police-van-999-pass.html

 

So a comment sense approch has no bearing on this action. So my question still remains, is there legislation that allows you to move into the bus lane i.e. overides the law that says you must not use the bus lane?

 

That story is even more ridiculous than the first the left hand lane is empty so why cross the stop line to assist the Police?

[Deadyankee]

If the police used the bus lane then there would be more chance of an accident as they would be undertaking and people may pull over in the confusion. The driver wasn't using it to gain an advantage, he wouldn't have gone in the bus lane if it weren't for the emergency vehicles so common sense must surely apply.

[green_and_mean]

If the police used the bus lane then there would be more chance of an accident as they would be undertaking and people may pull over in the confusion. The driver wasn't using it to gain an advantage, he wouldn't have gone in the bus lane if it weren't for the emergency vehicles so common sense must surely apply.

 

Why would there be more chance of an accident, thousands of vehicles travel down bus lanes every day without causing confusion.

[Deadyankee]

Why would there be more chance of an accident, thousands of vehicles travel down bus lanes every day without causing confusion.

 

Because people instinctively see blue lights and pull to the left. If one of those bikes were in someone's blind spot then an accident occurs. It's why you don't undertake normally.

[Deadyankee]

Why would there be more chance of an accident, thousands of vehicles travel down bus lanes every day without causing confusion.

 

Because people instinctively see blue lights and pull to the left. If one of those bikes were in someone's blind spot then an accident occurs. It's why you don't undertake normally.

[green_and_mean]

Because people instinctively see blue lights and pull to the left. If one of those bikes were in someone's blind spot then an accident occurs. It's why you don't undertake normally.

 

Absolute rubbish if you cannot even cope with a Police vehicle using a bus lane without causing an accident you shouldn't really be driving! The best advice is just drive normally and within the law, blue light drivers are trained to get around you. Hoards of untrained 'do gooders' swerving all over the road at the first glimpse of a blue light helps nobody! http://www.bluelightaware.org.uk/

[Deadyankee]

Is it rubbish? Sorry for having a differing opinion, just my thoughts. Cars shouldn't undertake for the reason that you will be in peoples blind spots if they pull over. Best practice is to try and clear a straight path by pulling over, surely. I don't think using a bus lane, though unlawful at times, would cause danger, where as undertaking would.