Wilkins Chapman for Arrows. Claimform old MBNA card debt- Help

[Buncrana]

HI Guys,

 

It's been a while, and I hope you are all well

 

Well the SAR has been delivered from MBNA, but no CCA.

 

There are charges on there, roughly £900's worth of them. No PPI, just charges.

 

So, still waiting for Wilkins Chapman to provide the correct, original CCA.

 

As per the charges, Mrs B still hasn't acknowledged the debt, so we can't claim them back. Yet.

 

With the SAR, is there anything that I should be looking for in particular?

 

Buncrana

[fkofilee]

Not surprised about the CCA in the slightest. What does the SAR have in it?

[Buncrana]

Hi Fkofilee

 

The SAR shows spending, charges, cash withdrawals, phone conversations that she had with them, and it shows when they attempted to call her.

 

I can't be more thorough just now as I don't have it with me, at work unfortunately.

[fkofilee]

Howdi

 

Okay that is fine. The SAR is primarily used to pull all the charges information.

 

Naturally you can't claim without admitting the debt. Remind me how close this is to being SB?

[Buncrana]

Quite a bit away...

 

The last payment was in September 2010, first missed payment was October 2010.

 

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

HI Guys,

 

It's been a while, and I hope you are all well

 

Well the SAR has been delivered from MBNA, but no CCA.

 

There are charges on there, roughly £900's worth of them. No PPI, just charges.

 

So, still waiting for Wilkins Chapman to provide the correct, original CCA.

 

As per the charges, Mrs B still hasn't acknowledged the debt, so we can't claim them back. Yet.

 

With the SAR, is there anything that I should be looking for in particular?

 

Buncrana

 

 

 

Good morning Buncrana, you are well I trust?

 

 

I am not surprised that there was no CCA included the SAR data, it is not considered "personal data" and there is no obligation for a creditor to supply this other than under a CCA request made under Sections 77/78/79 of CCA 1974 (as amended).

 

 

Default date, is it correctly shown on CRA files? Is the amount claimed correct?,

How long ago was the CCA request sent to WC? if more than the 12+2 working days the debt is unenforceable until they do supply, a failure to comply letter could be sent.

 

 

Brig.

[Buncrana]

Hi Brig, I hope all is well with you and yours

 

Yes, apart from this lot, life is good

 

Default date is correct on her credit files, though she was paying through CCCS until October 2010. An error on her part, she didn't realise she hadn't cancelled the DD due to other things going on at the time, namely her fathers illness.

 

Will check when I get home, but I'm virtually certain that the timeframe has expired for compliance with the CCA request. I'm sure it was at least three weeks ago.

 

We haven't heard anything else via the court regarding this. WC did give a two day deadline for payment, which was very considerate of them

 

Will be home later this afternoon, will double check when the CCA request was sent off..

 

Buncrana

[Buncrana]

''Is the amount claimed correct?''

 

Ps, I seem to recall that there is a bit of a discrepancy in the amount, will check when I get home

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

''Is the amount claimed correct?''

 

Ps, I seem to recall that there is a bit of a discrepancy in the amount, will check when I get home

Hi Buncrana,

 

 

Looking back CCA request sent around 2nd June '14?

 

 

If they have not written to say they need more time it's a fair bet they haven't got the CCA.

[Buncrana]

Hi Brig,

 

 

I've had a look, but can't find the postal receipts, but it was around the 2nd June. I remember because the CCA they sent from the CPR request overlapped the CCA request I sent. Also, the SAR was sent off in the same post. SAR has arrived.

 

 

Now, the CCA they sent had been doctored and most certainly was not the original one signed by Mrs B, when I say doctored, I mean her address at the time has been removed and our current address has been inserted. WC could also say that they have already sent one out, but it is not the original. The one that they first sent out, has our current address on it. She was living around 60 odd miles away when she applied for this card. The SAR actually shows the correct address from that time and the first page of the CCA.

 

 

There is also a difference of almost £300 between the final amount owed to MBNA and the amount being claimed by WC, in WC's favour of course.

 

 

Charges amount to almost £700, not £900 as I stated earlier...

 

 

Hope that helps

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Brig,

 

 

I've had a look, but can't find the postal receipts, but it was around the 2nd June. I remember because the CCA they sent from the CPR request overlapped the CCA request I sent. Also, the SAR was sent off in the same post. SAR has arrived.

 

 

Now, the CCA they sent had been doctored and most certainly was not the original one signed by Mrs B, when I say doctored, I mean her address at the time has been removed and our current address has been inserted. WC could also say that they have already sent one out, but it is not the original. The one that they first sent out, has our current address on it. She was living around 60 odd miles away when she applied for this card. The SAR actually shows the correct address from that time and the first page of the CCA.

 

 

There is also a difference of almost £300 between the final amount owed to MBNA and the amount being claimed by WC, in WC's favour of course.

 

 

Charges amount to almost £700, not £900 as I stated earlier...

 

 

Hope that helps

 

 

 

Hi Buncrana,

 

 

One thing jumps out straight away, IF the is supposed to be a "reconstituted" agreement or a true copy of the original agreement it Must have the name and address that was current at the time the agreement was signed.

 

 

So reject the CCA that has been " doctored" as non compliant with the CCA request , but do not explain why.

 

 

Let's see how they respond to that.

[Buncrana]

Hi Buncrana,

 

 

One thing jumps out straight away, IF the is supposed to be a "reconstituted" agreement or a true copy of the original agreement it Must have the name and address that was current at the time the agreement was signed.

 

 

So reject the CCA that has been " doctored" as non compliant with the CCA request , but do not explain why.

 

 

Let's see how they respond to that.

 

 

Thanks for that Brig, it most definitely isn't the original. Also, the pages go from, Front page of application form, usual details etc. Page 2 is Financial and related conditions. Page 3 shows ''2 of 7'' on the bottom of the page, and a different typeset from the first two. Page 4 shows ''4 of 7'' on the bottom of the page. Page 5 shows ''6 of 7'' on the bottom. Page 6 is blank.

 

 

So we have pages missing, new addresses inserted, and different typesets, all in the one CCA.

 

 

The NOA also has a paragraph stating ''We have already made arrangements with Wescot Credit Services to continue to manage your account and you should continue to direct all correspondence and payments'' to Wescot...

 

 

We have never had any dealings or correspondence from Wescot...

 

 

So, next step time.

 

 

They haven't responded within the 12+2 days for the CCA, though they could argue that they already sent one out.

 

 

Do I now respond to them and say that this is the wrong agreement?

 

 

Buncrana

 

 

Ps, are there any templates foir such??

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Thanks for that Brig, it most definitely isn't the original. Also, the pages go from, Front page of application form, usual details etc. Page 2 is Financial and related conditions. Page 3 shows ''2 of 7'' on the bottom of the page, and a different typeset from the first two. Page 4 shows ''4 of 7'' on the bottom of the page. Page 5 shows ''6 of 7'' on the bottom. Page 6 is blank.

 

 

So we have pages missing, new addresses inserted, and different typesets, all in the one CCA.

 

 

The NOA also has a paragraph stating ''We have already made arrangements with Wescot Credit Services to continue to manage your account and you should continue to direct all correspondence and payments'' to Wescot...

 

 

We have never had any dealings or correspondence from Wescot...

 

 

So, next step time.

 

 

They haven't responded within the 12+2 days for the CCA, though they could argue that they already sent one out.

 

 

Do I now respond to them and say that this is the wrong agreement?

 

 

Buncrana

 

 

Ps, are there any templates foir such??

 

 

 

Only in my head.

Refs use theirs.

Sir/Madam,

 

 

I refer to the documents supplied in response to my request made under sections 77/78 of CCA 1974 (as amended), as you are no doubt aware these are not compliant with my request and are therefore rejected.

 

 

This matter remains in dispute and the alleged debt is unenforceable.

 

 

Recorded signed for post.

 

 

Brig.

[Buncrana]

Done Brig, what a guy

 

 

Will post that on Monday morning, recorded of course

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Done Brig, what a guy

 

 

Will post that on Monday morning, recorded of course

Best wishes to you and Mrs B.

 

 

Brig.

[Buncrana]

Thanks Brig, enjoy the rest of your weekend

[Buncrana]

Hi Guys,

 

 

WC have been back in contact. (Please see the attached).

 

 

As you can see, they are stating that the CCA provided is a true copy of the original.

 

 

And as previously stated on this thread, it very obviously isn't.

 

 

And it looks like they want us to do their job for them by letting them know why it isn't compliant with S77/78.

 

 

I have looked back through the CCA they sent out, just to clarify in my own mind, the errors contained in it. Pages out of sync, pages missing, wrong address etc.

 

 

I'm thinking of responding along the lines of:

 

 

Re your correspondence of...........

 

 

The CCA received from your company is non compliant. It is not my place to tell you why, you should know why yourselves.

 

 

I still do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Mrs B

 

 

Is this suffice, or do I need to add more?

 

 

I'm still very much a novice at this, and any help is very much appreciated

 

 

Hope you're all having a good day,

 

 

Buncrana P:)

 

Hi Andy,

 

 

I think I've done that right, if not, let me know and I'll try and amend it

 

 

So, if I read you correctly, just ignore until they decide what to do next?

[AndyOrch]

Why respond ?

[Buncrana]

Why respond ?

 

 

 

Hi Andy,

 

 

How are you

 

 

Very good question....

 

 

A defence was lodged via Northampton some time ago. If we don't respond to this latest letter from WC, what are the consequences?

 

 

And we have heard nothing back from the court since the defence was lodged, the one that you very kindly gave us

[AndyOrch]

Im fine thanks Buncrana and trust you are same.

 

You need to convert the above letter to PDF firstly to enable posters to read.

 

But irrespectively and can surmise the nonsense it contains...you are not at liberty to respond...you have submitted your defence...its now their move next.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[The Mould]

Yes, disregard their request for you to respond.

 

 

You have filed a Defence against the claim and you are not obligated to provide the Claimant with any explanation as regards your allegations on the agreement provided by him.

 

 

Raise your allegations against the agreement at the trial in your submissions (set out in your skeleton argument).

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

The Mould

[Buncrana]

Yes, disregard their request for you to respond.

 

 

You have filed a Defence against the claim and you are not obligated to provide the Claimant with any explanation as regards your allegations on the agreement provided by him.

 

 

Raise your allegations against the agreement at the trial in your submissions (set out in your skeleton argument).

 

 

Kind regards

 

 

The Mould

 

 

Hi Mould,

 

 

I hope you are feeling better these days

 

 

Given what you've read so far, do you think this will go to court?

 

 

Buncrana

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Andy,

 

 

I think I've done that right, if not, let me know and I'll try and amend it

 

 

So, if I read you correctly, just ignore until they decide what to do next?

Hi Buncrana , How are you??

 

 

My suggestion as reply to this is

 

 

Dear Cur or madman,

 

 

I am sure you are filly aware of the reasons why the document (s) supplied in response to my recent request made under sections 77/78 of CCA 1974 as amended.

 

 

Therefore I see no need for further correspondence.

[AndyOrch]

Why respond ?

 

I can only reiterate and save you the bother...so you can sunbathe:-)

[Buncrana]

Hi Buncrana , How are you??

 

 

My suggestion as reply to this is

 

 

Dear Cur or madman,

 

 

I am sure you are filly aware of the reasons why the document (s) supplied in response to my recent request made under sections 77/78 of CCA 1974 as amended.

 

 

Therefore I see no need for further correspondence.

 

 

Hi Brig, we're both good thank you I hope you and yours are well

 

I can only reiterate and save you the bother...so you can sunbathe:-)

 

 

Are you spying on me Andy

 

 

It seems a pity not to get a bit of vitamin D on these fine days, especially with a load of night shifts coming up

 

 

As much as I'm tempted to send a ''GIRUY'' letter, I'll hold back until any court case...

 

 

Though here's hoping it won't go near a court

 

 

Time to get ready for work now, have a lovely evening folks, and thank you once again for all of your help, you guys are something else

 

 

All the best for now,

 

 

Buncrana

 

 

Ps, should they come calling again, I will of course let you know