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    • Morning, I purchased a car from Big Motoring World on 10th December 2023 for £14899.00. On the 15th December I had a problem with the auto start stop function of the car in which the car would stop in the middle of the road with a stop start error message. I called the big assist and the car was booked in for February. The BMW was with them for a week and it came back with the auto stop start feature all fine and all error codes cleared on the report from big motoring world. within 5 days I had the same issue. Warning light coming on and the car stopping. I called big assist again and the car was again booked in for an other repair in May. Car was taken back in may, they had the car for a week and returned with the report saying no issue with the auto stop start feature and blamed my driving. Within 5 days of having the car back it broke down again. This time undrivable. I had the rac pick my car up and take to Stephen James BMW for a full diagnostic. The diagnostic came back with the car needing a new fuel system as magnetic swarf was found.  I have sent big motoring world a letter stating all the issues and that under the consumer rights act 2015 I have asked for a replacement vehicle. all reports from Stephen James BMW have been sent over to big motoring world. Big motoring world have come back and said they will respond to my complaint within 14 days for the date of my complaint letter. I am not feeling confident on the response from them, what are my next steps?   Thanks in advance. 
    • That is really good is that a mistake last off "driver doesn't have a licence" I assume that should be keeper? The Court requested me to send the Court and applicant proof of my sons disability from their GP this clearly shows he has Severe Mental Impairement, he is also illiterate.  I naively assumed once the applicant received this that they would drop the claim.  It offends me that Bank has asked the Judge to throw the case out at the preliminary hearing and to make us pay up.
    • Hi, we are looking to get some opinions on weather or not to bother fighting this PCN. This comes from a very big retail park parking where there are restaurants, hotel, amongst other businesses. The parking is free but I suppose there must be a time limit on it that I am not aware of. We were in the area for around 4 hours. Makes us wonder how they deal with people staying in the hotel as the ANPR is on what appears to be a publicly maintained street (where london buses run) which leads to the different parking areas including the hotel.  1 Date of the infringement 26/05/2024 2 Date on the NTK  31/05/2024 3 Date received 07/06/2024 4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]  YES 5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Entry and exit photos however, based on the photographs we are almost sure the photos are taken on public street. This is the location I believe photos are taken from.  https://maps.app.goo.gl/eii8zSmFFhVZDRpbA 6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A 7 Who is the parking company? UKPA. UK Parking Administration LTD 8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] The Colonnades, Croydon, CR0 4RQ For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. British Parking Association (BPA) Thanks in advance for any assistance.  UKPA PCN The Collonades-redacted.pdf
    • Thank you for posting their WS. If we start with the actual WS made by the director one would have doubts that they had even read PoFA let alone understood it. Point 10  we only have the word of the director that the contract has been extended. I should have had the corroboration of the Client. Point 12 The Judge HHJ Simkiss was not the usual Judge on motoring cases and his decisions on the necessity of contracts did not align with PoFA. In Schedule 4 [1[ it is quite clearly spelt out- “relevant contract” means a contract (including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land) between the driver and a person who is—(a)the owner or occupier of the land; or (b authorised, under or  by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land; And the laughable piece of paper from the land owners cannot be described as a contract. I respectfully ask that the case be dismissed as there is no contract. WE do not even know what the parking regulations are which is really basic. It is respectfully asked that without a valid contract the case cannot continue. One would imagine that were there a valid contract it would have been produced.  So the contract that Bank has with the motorist must come from the landowner. Bank on their own cannot impose their own contract. How could a director of a parking company sign a Statement of Truth which included Point 11. Point 14. There is no offer of a contract at the entrance to the car park. Doubtful if it is even an offer to treat. The entrance sign sign does not comply with the IPC Code of Conduct nor is there any indication that ANPR cameras are in force. A major fault and breach of GDPR. Despite the lack of being offered a contract at the entrance [and how anyone could see what was offered by way of a contract in the car park is impossible owing to none of the signs in the WS being at all legible] payment was made for the car to park. A young person in the car made the payment. But before they did that, they helped an elderly lady to make her payment as she was having difficulty. After arranging payment for the lady the young lad made his payment right behind. Unfortunately he entered the old lady's number again rather than paying .for the car he was in. This can be confirmed by looking at the Allow List print out on page 25. The defendant's car arrived at 12.49 and at 12.51 and 12.52  there are two payments for the same vrm. This was also remarked on by the IPC adjudicator when the PCN was appealed.  So it is quite disgraceful that Bank have continued to pursue the Defendant knowing that it was a question of  entering the wrong vrm.  Point 21 The Defendant is not obliged to name the driver, they are only invited to do so under S9[2][e]. Also it is unreasonable to assume that the keeper is the driver. The Courts do not do that for good reason. The keeper in this case does not have a driving licence. Point 22. The Defendant DID make a further appeal which though it was also turned down their reply was very telling and should have led to the charge being dropped were the company not greedy and willing to pursue the Defendant regardless of the evidence they had in their own hands. Point 23 [111] it's a bit rich asking the Defendant to act justly and at proportionate cost while acting completely unjustly themselves and then adding an unlawful 70% on to the invoice. This  is despite PoFA S4[5] (5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 9[2][d].  Point 23 [1v] the Director can deny all he wants but the PCN does not comply with PoFA. S9 [2][a] states  (2)The notice must— (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates; The PCN only quotes the ANPR arrival and departure times which obviously includes a fair amount of driving between the two cameras. Plus the driver and passengers are a mixture of disabled and aged persons who require more time than just a young fit single driver to exit the car and later re enter. So the ANPR times cannot be the same as the required parking period as stipulated in the ACT. Moreover in S9[2][f]  (ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver, the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid; You will note that in the PCN the words in parentheses are not included but at the start of Section 9 the word "must" is included. As there are two faults in the PCN it follows that Bank cannot pursue the keeper . And as the driver does not have a driving licence their case must fail on that alone. And that is not even taking into consideration that the payment was made. Point 23 [v] your company is wrong a payment was made. very difficult to prove a cash payment two weeks later when the PCN arrives. However the evidence was in your print out for anyone to see had they actually done due diligence prior to writing to the DVLA. Indeed as the Defendant had paid there was no reasonable cause to have applied for the keeper details. Point 24 the Defendant did not breach the contract. The PCN claimed the Defendant failed to make a payment when they had made a payment.   I haven't finished yet but that is something to start with
    • You don't appeal to anyone. You haven't' received a demand from a statutory body like the council, the police or the courts. It's just a dodgy cowboy company trying it on. You simply don't pay.  In the vast majority of these cases the company deforest the Amazon with threats about how they are going to divert a drone from Ukraine and make it land on your home - but in the end they do nothing.
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According to FSA- no need to produce the deed of assignment


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I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment.

 

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There is no provision within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that states that

you are legally entitled to a copy of this. -Response from FSA about deed of assignment

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Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

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To view the FAQ'S click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

To view the PRELIM letter click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

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I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment.

 

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I was told by a credit co that they do not have to produce signed copy of agreement to comply with CCA request just a copy of what their terms and conditions are - however they conceded that as they cannot produce a signed copy they are aware that they cannot enforce the debt and have therfore written it off - don't know if this is similar situation.

Check out Elsinore v aktiv capital where TS were involved with her case against them

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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There is no provision within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 that states that

you are legally entitled to a copy of this. -Response from FSA about deed of assignment

 

Although a Deed of Assignment is not covered by the consumer credit act, It, is covered by the Law of Property Act.

 

When a creditor sells a debt to a DCA it must be done properly in the form of a Deed and have at least the minimum information of:

 

1) name of original creditor

 

2) new owner

 

3) Amount of original debt & Amount sold for

 

4) Date of sale

 

5) signed by original creditor and signed by new owner.

 

If the new owner wants to collect the debt through a county court claim, then they would have to provide this Deed of Assignment to the court to prove that they own the debt.

 

They are also obliged to provide this info to the debtor as part of any pre-action protocols, albeit they would blank out the sale price.

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"I was told by a credit co that they do not have to produce signed copy of agreement to comply with CCA request just a copy of what their terms and conditions are - however they conceded that as they cannot produce a signed copy they are aware that they cannot enforce the debt and have therfore written it off "

 

If they believed they didnt have any obligation to produce a signed copy under the CCA 1974, why do you think they wrote it off?

 

Answer: They knew they had been royally stuffed.

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"I was told by a credit co that they do not have to produce signed copy of agreement to comply with CCA request just a copy of what their terms and conditions are - however they conceded that as they cannot produce a signed copy they are aware that they cannot enforce the debt and have therfore written it off "

 

If they believed they didnt have any obligation to produce a signed copy under the CCA 1974, why do you think they wrote it off?

 

Answer: They knew they had been royally stuffed.

 

Yes - but this is what TS told elsinore as well.

Consumer Health Forums - where you can discuss any health or relationship matters.

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I have recently been in contact with trading standards and they have told me that a company do not have to produce the deed of assignment.

 

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It is my experience that what any member of staff of TS should be taken with not a little pinch of salt.

 

As I recall recently we even had 1 from 'Consumer Direct' telling a member of this forum who complained about a DCA "that as this was the way these companies operate" & there was nothing that could be done.

 

They have to prove they have a right to pursue the debtor & although they will try as few debtors even know they are required, without a deed of assignment they can't.

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Many years ago, I had a friend called Norman who spoke nothing but carp.

 

Norman is now diseased -diseade- deceased-dead as a door nail.

 

Occasionally he came up with something that was hilarious in its surreal numptitude.

 

The standard response to one of Norman's proclamations was " sounds like bullsh!t to me, Norman"

 

(we even had baseball caps and T shirts made with this printed on them)

 

I suspect that one of Norman's many offspring from his attempts to pass on his DNA via the National Health's IVF programme has evolved into a TS trainee.

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i have read through the Law of Property Act 1925 and its associated amending legislation and cannot find anything within the legislation that entitles a debtor to a copy of the deed of assignment. If you are aware of such a provision, I would be grateful if you could let me know.

I have no doubt that a DCA would need to present evidence to a court that they have legal title to a debt, but as far as i am aware, they do not have to present similar evidence to the debtor.

 

The Consumer Credit Act 1974 allows a debtor to request a copy of any agreement, if a creditor cannot produce this then they cannot attempt to recover the debt.

 

If you do not receive your copy by Monday then I will take the necessary action against ***.

 

I would be grateful if you could contact me on Monday to let me know if you have received this.

 

Regards,

 

 

Above, is the reply from fsa after i sent this response:

Although a Deed of Assignment is not covered by the consumer credit act, It, is covered by the Law of Property Act.

 

When a creditor sells a debt to a DCA it must be done properly in the form of a Deed and have at least the minimum information of:

 

1) name of original creditor

 

2) new owner

 

3) Amount of original debt & Amount sold for

 

4) Date of sale

 

5) signed by original creditor and signed by new owner.

 

If the new owner wants to collect the debt through a county court claim, then they would have to provide this Deed of Assignment to the court to prove that they own the debt.

 

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Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

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To view the FAQ'S click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

To view the PRELIM letter click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

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I have received from AK(DCA) what they (i can only presume) think will comply with my request , a document stating they own debt.

 

In their own headed paer

 

Formal Notice Of Assignment Of Above Debt

 

By an agreement between *** and AK first investment ltd the above debt has now been legally assigned to AK(uk)

 

we are acting as collection agent of the new legal owner of your account which is AK first investment

 

so in effect ak(uk) who told me owned it, dont own it

ak first investment ltd own it

 

prob part of the same company, but ak(uk) who are collecting the money off me dont own it

 

anyway this document isnt a deed of assignment as it doesnt even say what date transferred and its only signed by ak(uk)

 

so in effect they have no agreement with me to record info at cra's

payment must be forwarded

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Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

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To view the FAQ'S click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

To view the PRELIM letter click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

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Response from fsa

 

Sections 140A, 140B and 140C of the CCA 2006 deals with 'Unfair relationships' between creditors and debtors. These amendments do not come into force until April 2007. The section you have quoted does not state that a debtor has a right to a copy of a deed of assignment. All this section does, is state that a debt collection agency can be classified as a creditor within the context of unfair relationships

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Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

------------------------------------------------

To view the FAQ'S click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

To view the PRELIM letter click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

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Hi,

 

Don't know if anyone can help, RBS closed my account in 1999. I sent a Data Protection Letter with my account numbers but they have written back stating they have no record of the account. I intended to apply to have the statute of limitations overturned to claim back the charges, but if they are saying they have no record of the account I don't know where to go from here.

 

To further complicate things, they passed the (overdraft) debt on to a company called BTMK. They reduced the amount originally demanded and I was paying them £50 month for years (repaid £1,118.91 in total). Anyway stopped paying them in April when this OFT announcement came out. BTMK started sending the nasty letters and I wrote asking for the deed of assignment, (11th August 2006). They wrote to me stating they had wrote off the remaining £500 which they said was outstanding and my case was now closed. They returned my £1 postal order. They then phoned me and said that I acknowledged the debt by agreeing to repay the reduced amount and if I pursued the matter they would make me repay the £500 they have written off. I have still not received the deed of assignment and want to know if I can take action to recover the £1,118.91 I have paid to them. Also I want to know if I can use BTMK to get RBS to acknowledge the existance of my account.

 

Would really appreciate any advice on this one.

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any record on your credit file

-----------------------------------------------

Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

------------------------------------------------

To view the FAQ'S click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

To view the PRELIM letter click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

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No, there is nothing on my credit file relating to this debt with RBS.

 

I've got my diaries from years ago and all my account numbers are in them and I know I've given them the right details. I contacted my old branch in the first instance. Just think they are using 'tactics'.

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  • 3 weeks later...

494. Section 211(2)(e) enables the order to specify as within the definition of a domestic infringement things done or omitted to be done where an enactment creates a sanction of unenforceability. An example is the Consumer Credit Act 1974. A large number of 'requirements' of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 have as their sanction the unenforceability (against the debtor or hirer) of the consumer credit agreement or of the security of the agreement, or of rights under them. An example is requirements in relation to the form, content and signature of agreements in sections 60 and 61, and the duty to supply copies of the agreement and notice of the right to cancel in sections 62 to 64. In these cases, the court can allow the agreement to be enforced except in cases set out in sections 127(3) and (4) (e.g. unsigned agreements or where notice of the right to cancel is not given as required).

 

 

 

this might be worth reading in relation cca request

-----------------------------------------------

Mortgage Express charges- settled in full after issuing claim

 

------------------------------------------------

To view the FAQ'S click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/faqs-please-read-these/

To view the PRELIM letter click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/516-1-data-protection-act.html

To view the Letter Before Action click here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/92-3-letter-before-action.html

To find Registered Address:

http://www.esd.informationcommissioner.gov.uk/esd/search.asp

 

 

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  • 5 months later...
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  • 2 months later...
When a Deed of Assignment is drawn up by the original creditor, does it have the account number(s) that the debt relates to on it... or just the amount outstanding ? Does anyone know ?

 

 

It requires all information relating to the transfer of the debt. How can they legally state they own the debt, if an item such as account number of the debtor isn`t even detailed within the document?

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It requires all information relating to the transfer of the debt. How can they legally state they own the debt, if an item such as account number of the debtor isn`t even detailed within the document?

 

Thanks for that Rich.... if that's the case, then the lovely lads at Moorcroft have stuffed up. Just waiting on the SAR stuff at the moment.... :cool:

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  • 1 month later...
Hi,

 

Don't know if anyone can help, RBS closed my account in 1999. I sent a Data Protection Letter with my account numbers but they have written back stating they have no record of the account. I intended to apply to have the statute of limitations overturned to claim back the charges, but if they are saying they have no record of the account I don't know where to go from here.

 

To further complicate things, they passed the (overdraft) debt on to a company called BTMK. They reduced the amount originally demanded and I was paying them £50 month for years (repaid £1,118.91 in total). Anyway stopped paying them in April when this OFT announcement came out. BTMK started sending the nasty letters and I wrote asking for the deed of assignment, (11th August 2006). They wrote to me stating they had wrote off the remaining £500 which they said was outstanding and my case was now closed. They returned my £1 postal order. They then phoned me and said that I acknowledged the debt by agreeing to repay the reduced amount and if I pursued the matter they would make me repay the £500 they have written off. I have still not received the deed of assignment and want to know if I can take action to recover the £1,118.91 I have paid to them. Also I want to know if I can use BTMK to get RBS to acknowledge the existance of my account.

 

Would really appreciate any advice on this one.

 

If one request for a deed of assignment made them write off the outstanding balance and threaten you if you pursued the matter it sounds like they are panicking. Its a gamble of £500 against the £1118 you stand to win. If they really don't have a deed of assignment I would imagine you might have a good chance but I can offer no legal perspective on this. It would be good sport to give it a pop though - if they've been taking your payments fraudulently they will have more then just £1118 at stake - I would imagine their credit licence could be at risk and if the OC have genuinely erased all details (how likely is that really I wonder) they won't be able to back up BTMK's claims. Boils down to; is it worth the stress for you to pursue, and is it worth the risk for them to try to defend it if you do. Have fun :)

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Hi all, I've not checked out the site for some time and the 2 threads I had been contributing to seem to have fizzled out in the meantime. I'm currently being harrassed and am keen to see if anywhere on the forums has come to any conclusive views on some of the old favourite chestnuts like :-

 

1. Is there any right to se an alleged DEED of assigment (albeit with sale price blanked out)?

 

2. Is a NOTICE of assignment valid if its...

a) only a representation

b) not dated

c) not on genuine OC letterheaded paper

 

3. Does an original credit agreement have to be produced (i.e. the ORIGINAL), or is a blurry, illegible, photocopy of a faxed or microfished document good enough for the Court?

 

4. Does the credit agreement produced for the Court need to be intact enough to include its full terms of conditions and interest rates etc? Or would supplying representative T&Cs be acceptable to the Court?

 

I'm sorry I know all these things have been discussed and opined on at length in multiple threads but I think I'd lose the will to live (its already waining fast) if I trawled through every thread to try to get to the current thinking. Can anyone point me in the right direction? I know there are lots of opinions on this but I'm really looking more for examples from actual Court experiences where evidence was either accepted or thrown out on the basis of the above examples? Anyone got that far?

 

Any help would be most appreciated (might even get a decent's night sleep for once!)

 

Thinksmart

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