Roofer did shoddy work and has now filed court claim against me

[Kinger122]

Thanks caro, so I may have been in a better position if I had just paid by credit card and disputed it from the beginning, and allowed the credit card company to investigate rather than an ill informed judge make a decision on what he has limited knowledge of. A shame I did not know then what I know now

[Kinger122]

The roof has leaked again. I was thinking of sending the following:

 

 

"after the attendance of your worker and subsequent heavy rainfall the roof is leaking again. This situation is becoming extremely difficult for my family as I am unable to continue the work in my extension until this issue is rectified. I have not heard from you since 12/05/2014 when your worker attended, despite him stating he would be in touch. I will be left with no option but to contact the court unless I hear from you promptly. I have attached pictures of windows leaking again

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

http://tinypic.com/r/20a88xy/8

http://tinypic.com/r/hrest5/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2nrlnrd/8

http://tinypic.com/r/2nrlnrd/8

[Mike_hawk]

Perhaps add a further line that if he is unable to offer a suitable remedy you will apply for relief to instruct a single joint expert.

[Kinger122]

Perhaps add a further line that if he is unable to offer a suitable remedy you will apply for relief to instruct a single joint expert.

 

 

 

Thanks Mike, Ill send it off now.

[Kinger122]

I received the following from the roofer.

Good Afternoon Mr xxx

 

I have spoken with (roofer who attended) who informs me the roofing works are now complete. Once the tiles were removed and there was exposure to the areas, no leakage was found during the investigation and that the areas were in his words ‘bone dry’. I therefore conclude our business and shall today apply for the Insurance Cover and request that payment in full is now made within 14 days to allow me to produce your 10 year warranty as agreed. (roofer who attended) has left a message with (inspector) to attend at his nearest convenience to inspect the final works.

 

In the meantime I should advise you that upon inspection and searching for your reported leakage (roofer who attended) informs me that there is a major problem with your side and main roof to the property. Looking from the back of the property to the right side (the 2 storey flat roof), it is suspected there is an internal leakage within the cavity and that your main roof is also in need of repairs.

 

I am aware that we have in the past supplied you with quotations for the repairs required and would urge you therefore to seek a roofing company to rectify the problems that currently exist which is in no way connected to the roof that (roofing company) has supplied and this will cure your leaking problems.

[f16]

Kinger

The roofer is trying to blame the leak on to your first floor roof,

by doing this he is "Misleading the Building control and thus the Court.

 

TIMES UP

Legal advice and back to Court

[maddiemay]

Oh please employ a structural engineer, a roofer, a surveyor and anyone else who can report on your entire house, if all reports say virtually the same, the court will surely have to take action, they are after all the experts, and judge is not!

 

This is going to cost you either way, but I'd much rather pay any or all of the above, than the original roofer a single penny more than is necessary! The grief this has caused you is unacceptable.

[Mike_hawk]

I really can't see many options open to Kinger, if he really wants to challenge it it would need to be with the courts approval to vary the order and appoint an expert........not without the risk of bearing the full costs of a hearing if countered by the other side.

[Kinger122]

I really can't see many options open to Kinger, if he really wants to challenge it it would need to be with the courts approval to vary the order and appoint an expert........not without the risk of bearing the full costs of a hearing if countered by the other side.

 

What full costs would it be? Its complete lies what they are saying. There is nothing wrong with the roof on my house. Im not going to give up now when I know these allegations are false. Surely I should take this as far as I can go?

[Mike_hawk]

The costs of a hearing, it's small claims track but that does not provide either party with a guarantee of protection from a costs order.

 

If you don't want to give up and understand the risks then by all means apply to vary the order

[Kinger122]

The costs of a hearing, it's small claims track but that does not provide either party with a guarantee of protection from a costs order.

 

If you don't want to give up and understand the risks then by all means apply to vary the order

 

Surely when you know you're in the right you cant just roll over due to the potential for costs? I may as well have paid up in the beginning and let him win. Excuse my ignorance but a cost order could only award expert witness costs? what other costs would there be apart from the court fees?

[caro]

Surely when you know you're in the right you cant just roll over due to the potential for costs? I may as well have paid up in the beginning and let him win. Excuse my ignorance but a cost order could only award expert witness costs? what other costs would there be apart from the court fees?

 

If the roofer decided to employ a solicitor at hundreds of pounds an hour who knows what it may cost, and if there were expert witnesses who had to travel any distance or stay overnight that could be a lot. I agree that you shouldn't roll over but you need to be very clear on the legal aspects of your case because that's what the judge is likely to be considering. You could be talking thousands.

[Kinger122]

I am thinking about sending off the following:

Dear Roofer,

 

With regards to your email dated 14th May 2014, I regret to inform you I am unable to make full payment at this stage. My reasons are as follows.

 

 

1. My roof is still leaking. None of the issues raised in court have been addressed or rectified.
   
2. The building inspector has not inspected nor issued a certificate.
   
3. An insurance backed guarantee has not been produced
   

 

The Judge’s ruling was the following:

 

It is ordered that:

“1. The claimant shall at his expense inspect the velux windows and rectify any aspect of the installation likely to result in water ingress. The claimant is not however required to alter the pitch of the roof. Further, and also at the Claimant's expense the Claimant shall arrange an inspection by the local authority inspector.

 

2. In the event the building inspector approves the work:

 

a) The claimant shall promptly and at his expense arrange an insurance backed guarantee in relation to all of the work carried out on site.

b) The defendant shall within 14 days of the guarantee pay the outstanding invoice sum

 

c) In the event the building inspector does not approve the work the parties shall promptly notify Judge xxxxx”

 

 

Point 2(B) of the ruling states that payment is to be made within 14 days after the production of a insurance backed guarantee. You have yet to produce this. I do not agree that the cause of the leak is due to defects on my house. If this was true then why did (roofer) not mention this when the quantity surveyor attended before work was carried out? Why was this not mentioned in court? What qualifications does Mr (roofer who attended on Monday 12th May) have to make these claims and how could a visual inspection be sufficient?

 

I await your response,

 

[Mike_hawk]

Kinger

 

If you're serious about pressing the issue it would make sense to present a w/p offer to the other side containing a rider that absent any consent you will file an application to vary with the court. Try it at 50% to test the water...... you'll spend that much on a a sje, app fee and a day for the other sides sols if it goes belly up.

[f16]

Kinger

 

If you're serious about pressing the issue it would make sense to present a w/p offer to the other side containing a rider that absent any consent you will file an application to vary with the court. Try it at 50% to test the water...... you'll spend that much on a a sje, app fee and a day for the other sides sols if it goes belly up.

 

Mike,

If Kinger did as you are suggesting then would that be in "Full and final settlement" ?

 

If it is in "Full and final settlement". Then Kinger would be unable to sue the roofer for damages and breach of contract etc.

If he wanted to take the roofer to court

Or would he ???

[Mike_hawk]

That ship sailed when the judge disposed of the cc

[f16]

Judge disposed of the cc based on the fact that the roofer stated that the roof was fine at 13.5 degrees.

If an independent report states otherwise surely that would prove the roofer has "misled" the judge ?

 

Why can't Kinger start a "new court case" ?

 

I can't believe this "roofer" can just get away with this and leave Kinger to "pick up the pieces"

[Mike_hawk]

The case still exists, it's not concluded until both parties perform per the order. If Kinger is adamant that he is not satisfied he will need to ask the court [by application] to vary the order, granting relief to the parties to instruct a single joint expert and act on those findings. The difficulty is that the roofer will fight tooth and nail to derail any such application.

[Kinger122]

The case still exists, it's not concluded until both parties perform per the order. If Kinger is adamant that he is not satisfied he will need to ask the court [by application] to vary the order, granting relief to the parties to instruct a single joint expert and act on those findings. The difficulty is that the roofer will fight tooth and nail to derail any such application.

 

Thanks Mike. in the mean time shall I send off that email I posted before?

[Mike_hawk]

If you want to send something I think I'd say less and just remind him of the terms of the order and at what point payment becomes due.

 

At some point you need to decide whether to take this back to court, pay per the order or push the other side to settle by way of compromise at a lesser sum. It seems sensible to chew it over for a couple of days before sending any further correspondence.

 

It's a decision only you can make.

[f16]

Kinger

I think Mike is giving some very good advice here and you do need to think about the costs of going back to Court.

Maybe consider a w/p with the roofer.

 

There is another point.

I've spent sometime going back over the thread and the photos, plans etc.

 

The main bathroom is on the rear elevation of the building in the middle of the rear extension.

Obviously the "plumbing" must have been altered.

Are you sure the "leak" is not from the plumbing in the bathroom ?

 

It may be a leak on the waste pipework (eg When you pull the plug on the bath).

Thus it is not "apparent" all the time.

This could be why the roofer found the roof to be "bone dry".

[f16]

Kinger

Another question (if I may) because I have no wish to give incorrect advice.

 

In heavy rain.

Is the guttering on the main roof coping with the volume of water?

Or is it over flowing the gutters ????

I suspect you may not have noticed, but worth checking.

The above could also cause "water ingress" into the cavity.

[Kinger122]

Kinger

I think Mike is giving some very good advice here and you do need to think about the costs of going back to Court.

Maybe consider a w/p with the roofer.

 

There is another point.

I've spent sometime going back over the thread and the photos, plans etc.

 

The main bathroom is on the rear elevation of the building in the middle of the rear extension.

Obviously the "plumbing" must have been altered.

Are you sure the "leak" is not from the plumbing in the bathroom ?

 

It may be a leak on the waste pipework (eg When you pull the plug on the bath).

Thus it is not "apparent" all the time.

This could be why the roofer found the roof to be "bone dry".

 

Thanks for the input f16. I didnt even think that was possible. Ill definitely have to make sure if that is the cause of the leak I dont make a fool of myself by going back to court. An expert witness is going to cost lots too. I think I need to carefully consider my options like Mike said

[Kinger122]

Kinger

Another question (if I may) because I have no wish to give incorrect advice.

 

In heavy rain.

Is the guttering on the main roof coping with the volume of water?

Or is it over flowing the gutters ????

I suspect you may not have noticed, but worth checking.

The above could also cause "water ingress" into the cavity.

 

I have never noticed that either as I am never outside when it is raining. ill have a look the next time im outside.

[Mike_hawk]

Let us know your decision, part 35 expert witness for build shouldn't be more than 1k.