Benefit sanction figures expose Tory lies

[Fuzzgin]

Why go through all of that? The DWP/Jobcentre directive might appear stupid and illogical but those are the rules - do what they tell you when they tell you!

Why argue with them - you won't win - you will only, as you say, put yourself in a position of having a 'doubt' raised.

 

If I was in your husband's shoes and I was told to apply for a job as an electrician and didn't know a red wire from a black one, I would still apply just to keep everybody happy. Only then would I raise the matter with the jobcentre and ask why I was being told to apply when I clearly didn't have any experience or qualifications for that particular job.

If you behave yourself and do as you are told they can't create a doubt.

 

Did you even read before commenting. No you didn't. She explained why her husband didn't apply for the job, because he would like a job and would prefer not to ruin his credibility with a potential future employer. Which would be a good thing in your world view? Right?

[mr_mastiff]

 

 

 

I'm a little worried that with that attitude, you seem to be finding reasons and excuses instead of ways to find a job.

 

A very old friend of mine who used to be a stevedore at the old London Docks. He was never guaranteed any work but turned up every morning on the off chance he was one of those picked for a days work. Living as he did in the East End of London, he used to walk miles every morning asking everybody and anybody if they could give him a days/nights work if he wasn't picked that morning. Invariably someone somewhere would give him some work to carry him through to the following day.

 

Times have changed, get real your statements only encourage a black economy and exploitation of a desperate part of the population. Is that your answer cash in hand jobs, pay no tax how does that help the country?

[Fuzzgin]

Imagine this... you're sick. You've been awaiting an operation. Your doctor has told you that you must not work as you will cause more damage. You get sanctioned.... what do you live on?

 

I'm lucky that I can work. That's not to my credit it's pure luck. I have several long term health conditions and have struggled on numerous occasions. It could happen again. But then I could be in an accident tomorrow and never able to work again. Who knows. Don't take your immense good fortune for granted silverlight.

[silverlight]

Did you even read before commenting. No you didn't. She explained why her husband didn't apply for the job, because he would like a job and would prefer not to ruin his credibility with a potential future employer. Which would be a good thing in your world view? Right?

 

Of course. But given that the Jobcentre have issued a directive that her husband must apply for the job in question they have the choice of either ignoring that demand and possibly having to face a sanction or apply with or without the 'Sub Contractors Certificate'.

 

Their choice, not mine and not yours.

[silverlight]

Times have changed, get real your statements only encourage a black economy

and exploitation of a desperate part of the population. Is that your answer

cash in hand jobs, pay no tax how does that help the country?

 

I was trying to explain the mind-set involved. Given that there are few jobs available, the ones that are there will go to those that go the extra mile looking for them. I never mentioned anything about working in the 'black economy' which is illegal.

Or maybe you are of the opinion that it is only right that people should be allowed to choose who they work for and where. That was OK 10/15 years ago, but today it is a different ball game - such as it was in the 50's and 60's.

[silverlight]

I'm just about tolerating your behaviour, but I will not accept this sort of personal insult directed towards another member. Cut it out.

 

I'm sorry if you are offended with what I posted and that you are just about tolerating my opinions. The post in question was not intended as a personal insult to anyone, more so an opinion of what I see every day. I can't understand why it is acceptable for society to find excuses and reasons not to do something when it is just as easy to do it. I read somewhere recently that you cannot be made to look for a job that is more than 90 mins travel away. Is that by car or public transport? It may well be the case that there is a job 2 hours away by public transport or 55mins by car - but from what I read, many would argue that they cannot be mandated to apply for that job. I just don't understand the world today - maybe I am an old has been and still live in the past.

[silverlight]

Imagine this... you're sick. You've been awaiting an operation. Your doctor has told you that you must not work as you will cause more damage. You get sanctioned.... what do you live on?

 

I'm lucky that I can work. That's not to my credit it's pure luck. I have several long term health conditions and have struggled on numerous occasions. It could happen again. But then I could be in an accident tomorrow and never able to work again. Who knows. Don't take your immense good fortune for granted silverlight.

 

I don't, I respect hard graft and a more than willing employee. I further respect an employee that gets up hours before others and travels a great distance just to be there on time. I also respect and admire those employees that against all adversity health wise, still manage to put in the hours at work.

 

If you think that the DWP made a mistake and placed you in the wrong group, there is no point moaning about it, the answer is clear - an appeal should have been lodged the day the decision notice was received.

 

Given what you have said you would have good grounds for being put in the Support Group on the basis that finding you fit for work or being placed in the Work Group would be injurious to your health.

[mr_mastiff]

I was trying to explain the mind-set involved. Given that there are few jobs available, the ones that are there will go to those that go the extra mile looking for them. I never mentioned anything about working in the 'black economy' which is illegal.

Or maybe you are of the opinion that it is only right that people should be allowed to choose who they work for and where. That was OK 10/15 years ago, but today it is a different ball game - such as it was in the 50's and 60's.

 

 

The only problem with your example is that the DWP/JPC would not except you walking the streets looking for work they would demand proof and probably sanction you for not doing it their way

[antone]

 

I'm sorry if you are offended with what I posted and that you are just about tolerating my opinions. The post in question was not intended as a personal insult to anyone, more so an opinion of what I see every day. I can't understand why it is acceptable for society to find excuses and reasons not to do something when it is just as easy to do it. I read somewhere recently that you cannot be made to look for a job that is more than 90 mins travel away. Is that by car or public transport? It may well be the case that there is a job 2 hours away by public transport or 55mins by car - but from what I read, many would argue that they cannot be mandated to apply for that job. I just don't understand the world today - maybe I am an old has been and still live in the past.

 

If you didn't intend a personal insult, well, fair enough, but be more careful.

 

As to what I'm tolerating - I'll make the point again, as I often do, that we permit a small amount of political discussion as long as it is not disruptive and remains civil. Merely refraining from the use of four letter words, incidentally, is insufficient to qualify as "civil". You do not get to march in here and treat the members like a sullen posse of juvenile delinquents. If you wish to complain about present government policy or believe that the JSA/ESA rules are too lax, take it to the Bear Garden. And yes, I know the OP was also overtly political, that's the only reason I've let things go this far.

 

The factual answer to your question is that the travel time is 90 minutes "by your usual method of transport" - car if you have one, public transport otherwise. A person who has no car cannot be mandated to apply for a job that is 2 hours away by public transport.

[fletch70]

Oh my god I do not know where to start

In the 50's we had pretty much full employment so it was easy to walk out of one job and into another

 

If someone is placed in the Wrag and appeal they are still in Wrag and the appeal can take a year or more, if appeals were quick and fair then we could all have a different argument.

 

Silverlight, I notice that since been shown to be wrong on the winter fuel payment thread you have moved to this one.

IMHO the benefits cap and the way the government is running it is wrong, lies dam lies and statistics.

Oh course my belief is that if you disagree with something you try to change it even if it's just by way of voting

 

If I had my way there would be social housing available for everyone who needed it and everyone able would be in work. The money generated would not be going to shareholders but back into the country

[silverlight]

The only problem with your example is that the DWP/JPC would not except you walking the streets looking for work they would demand proof and probably sanction you for not doing it their way

 

You do it both ways, their way and yours.

[silverlight]

Oh my god I do not know where to start

In the 50's we had pretty much full employment so it was easy to walk out of one job and into another

 

If someone is placed in the Wrag and appeal they are still in Wrag and the appeal can take a year or more, if appeals were quick and fair then we could all have a different argument.

 

Silverlight, I notice that since been shown to be wrong on the winter fuel payment thread you have moved to this one.

IMHO the benefits cap and the way the government is running it is wrong, lies dam lies and statistics.

Oh course my belief is that if you disagree with something you try to change it even if it's just by way of voting

 

If I had my way there would be social housing available for everyone who needed it and everyone able would be in work. The money generated would not be going to shareholders but back into the country

 

Communism is the word!! Hey but look what happened in Russia and is happening now in China. The first is one of the biggest capitalistic countries in the world and the other is getting there!! All for one and one for all they shout!

 

By the way I am very rarely wrong, others may have a different opinion to mine!

[hallowitch]

Of course. But given that the Jobcentre have issued a directive that her husband must apply for the job in question they have the choice of either ignoring that demand and possibly having to face a sanction or apply with or without the 'Sub Contractors Certificate'.

 

Their choice, not mine and not yours.

 

who said he needed a Sub Contractors Certificate I said he needs a safety passport ticket safety being the name of the game in the construction industry if you want to live to a ripe old age

 

pervious employers or company's that know him by reputation wont touch him without this ticket as I said prospective employers would think he was an idiot or his C.V. was a lie if he applied for a job without this ticket

[silverlight]

who said he needed a Sub Contractors Certificate I said he needs a safety passport ticket safety being the name of the game in the construction industry if you want to live to a ripe old age

 

pervious employers or company's that know him by reputation wont touch him without this ticket as I said prospective employers would think he was an idiot or his C.V. was a lie if he applied for a job without this ticket

 

At the end of the day he will have to apply for the job or be sanctioned with or without the certificate.

[antone]

At the end of the day he will have to apply for the job or be sanctioned with or without the certificate.

 

Only if he's given a Jobseeker's Direction in writing. And those can be challenged as unreasonable, although yeah, good luck with that.

[antone]

Screw it. Enough of this.

 

If you want to help people, help them. If you want to scold or lecture them, do it elsewhere. I suggest Yahoo Answers.