How to deal with the Work Programme

[Perseus1]

What happens if the claimant me (currently claiming JSA on the Work Programme) becomes eligible for Pension Credit during the period on the Work Programme?

 

Income increases to full-time minimum wage rates.

 

Do I still have to participate on the Work Programme I have already started with over a year to go?

 

The Work Programme is of no practical use and it includes the possibility of sanctions so I would sooner not be on it as the advice given is not satisfactory.

 

I don't mind working in suitable jobs (still applying) but there is always the question of half suitable jobs which will then not become economically worthwhile. At the moment I am applying for these without terrific enthusiasm. This is based on something interesting might come up.

 

Can I work self-employed part-time and still get Pension Credit? Is my income then deducted from any amount I might get from my Pension Credit or is there an amount I can earn before the deduction happens?

[antone]

You do not need to continue on the Work Programme if you claim Pension Credit. I'll need to look up the rules regarding income, self-employment etc., so I'll get back to you later if no-one else knows.

[Perseus1]

You do not need to continue on the Work Programme if you claim Pension Credit. I'll need to look up the rules regarding income, self-employment etc., so I'll get back to you later if no-one else knows.

 

I hope you are right. My information was different, so it would be useful to have a reference.

 

My information was that once you signed on the Work Programme it will only cease to be mandatory if you get a job. However, it may also cease if you stop claiming JSA, but this was only hearsay from the adviser and I cannot rely on their information being accurate.

 

I cannot find any source material to look up the rules.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Perseus1

[antone]

Here's the Provider Guidance from the DWP. As I read this, your participation in the WP stops being mandatory when you switch to SPC.

[Perseus1]

Here's the Provider Guidance[/url] from the DWP. As I read this, your participation in the WP stops being mandatory when you switch to SPC.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

It is not specified in the Change of Circumstances as an example in Chapter Five.

 

The problem is I would not be an entry point Pension Credit starter on the Work Programme.

 

So I read it another way, which is why I asked for clarification.

 

On re-reading, I think your reading was right because of change of circumstances, although not specified as an example of a change.

 

I suppose they cannot stop my JSA if I am no longer receiving it, so the mandates would not work.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Perseus1

[antone]

Yes, that was my logic - it should count as a change of circs and SPC participants are all voluntary. We do have a couple of "WP watchers" on the forum, and hopefully they'll drop in after the weekend.

[Perseus1]

Yes, that was my logic - it should count as a change of circs and SPC participants are all voluntary. We do have a couple of "WP watchers" on the forum, and hopefully they'll drop in after the weekend.

 

Thanks. It is always good to have confirmation, two minds on the job.

 

Extra income is not allowed on Pension Credit, it seems.

 

It might make it easier to do voluntary work with a training course component leading to a suitable job.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Perseus1

[Invalidation]

I have been on Pension credit since 2010.

When I was moved from IB to ESA last year I got the letter telling me I had to report to the local Jobcenter for the 'Work programme' or somesuch.

I rang them and advised them that, as I was already on Pension Credit, there was no obligation on me to do it. The lady didnt believe me and said she would check and call me back.

She did, as I was correct. But she also mentioned that if I worked, that any money I earned would be taken off my Pension Credit.

[bcham]

at what age can you change to pension credits, i am in my late 50s.

[Perseus1]

at what age can you change to pension credits, i am in my late 50s.

 

62 for me. It might be older for you. Check out the Government web page. Google it.

 

DWP advised me by letter.

 

Late fifties is the last chance to get a proper job. I got ill instead (at 55). Stamina ran very low even before that, but that is partly psychological.

 

55 is much better than 61 for working.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Perseus1

[Perseus1]

I think I am just going to plough on regardless and not take much notice of the Work Programme Advisor. He should be in sales or the Police Force, Security business, or G4 Security which is the broker/contractor anyway. He is not a civil servant.

 

The advice is not advice as much but the personal preferences of the the so called advisor, who is not trained and has not got the aptitudes for advice. This may work on released prisoners who are some of his clients.

 

Even if he did have the advice the rules laid down by G4 are too rigid and unhelpful. It might be the real world of dog eat dog at the bottom end of the retail world.

 

There is nothing to stop me getting advice from third parties. Not from the Job Centre though as they have usurped by private firms.

[Perseus1]

There does not seem much point in applying for minimum wage jobs if you are on Pension Credit.

 

So extra training (update skills in a competitive market) is the only way forward.

 

Gawd knows how I can engineer that on the Work Programme? Tips anyone?

[Mr.P]

As antone has already mentioned, by moving to Pension Credit, you are now in a voluntary group - This should mean that continued participation in the WP is entirely at your discretion. It would be advisable to get something in writing from the DWP regarding this.

 

Real world and worthwhile "Training" from a "Work Programme" provider is wishful thinking by a deluded minority - Unless you can find something at zero cost to the provider, the best you can hope for is infant school level literacy & numeracy with perhaps a few CV writing sessions... But then you know this already.

 

Tips: Once you have conformation that participation is not mandatory, turn the tables and make demands of them.

[Perseus1]

I am not on Pension Credit yet.

 

They are being vindictive over and above normal bullying. Where do I make a complaint to if I can prove it?

 

They have techniques/tricks to try and sanction people they don't like.

 

I was being co-operative but I refuse to be brow beaten or bullied.

[Perseus1]

When I corresponded with the DWP and Job Centre I deal with Public Servants and I assume they are ingrained with the public service concept and will keep stum about confidential matters like job applications and not even reveal the name of the job to third parties.

 

However, with the work programme it might be different (for good or bad). As a broker they could oil the wheels of motion and be potentially advantageous.

 

I have my doubts as they were reluctant to sub-edit job applications as a double-check for spelling mistakes etc. I asked as I thought this is a service that could help them earn their dosh.

 

But there is another aspect as they could reveal things like medical details (not given to them) and job application failures that could harm my reputation. They could also pass on jobs I found to third parties and increase the competition for posts.

 

Are we protected by their Code of Conduct and is it possible to see the rules anywhere please? (I looked and got lost amongst all the other information.)

[Mr.P]

They are being vindictive over and above normal bullying. Where do I make a complaint to if I can prove it?

 

Record everything and demand copies of all paperwork.

 

You should have been provided with a copy of the WP provider's complaints procedure - Your first complaint should be directed there. Once that fails, you can take it up with the Independent Complaints Examiner and involve your MP.

 

If you have evidence of fraud, contact the Third Party Provisions Manager at your local DWP office and don't take no for an answer.

[Perseus1]

Record everything and demand copies of all paperwork.

 

You should have been provided with a copy of the WP provider's complaints procedure - Your first complaint should be directed there. Once that fails, you can take it up with the Independent Complaints Examiner and involve your MP.

 

If you have evidence of fraud, contact the Third Party Provisions Manager at your local DWP office and don't take no for an answer.

 

Thanks very much. The internal complaints does not work because they collectively gang up on clients. Where can I get advice about what is normal and what constitutes bullying (maybe off thread)? . Unfortunately, my MP has proven not to be helpful in a similar publicised example.

 

None of the reports for Igneus resemble the system I encountered. Mild in comparison, but not all (some were similar). Even the Fraud Inspectors (I was not guilty) were not nearly as hostile.

 

http://www.ind-case-exam.org.uk/en/contact/index.asp

[Perseus1]

I have got another "interview" coming up and I need advice about confidentially with a bit of urgency.

 

Can I assume that I do not have to let them see my Job Log. I have not been specially mandated to do this. I can't delete the entries. I have agreed "under duress" to provide evidence of my Job search. Do I have to do this. I don't mind but the specifications are vague and they keep changing the rules on a whim.

 

I do not mind showing the job log to the civil servants as they will keep confidential things confidential (and I do not think I am important enough for anybody to hack their computers, not even Rebecca).

 

I can see why they don't allow memory sticks though on the main system, but they could set up isolated computers.

[45002]

Mistaken post removed !

[Perseus1]

Is it within the remit of the Work Programme Advisor to contact employers on your behalf. Is this within or without their remit? It says they are brokers. But that might be just PR?

 

With the old Job Clubs it was not beyond the realms of possibility that they introduced clients to employers. I got a job like that once. It wasn't any good but added experience.

 

This is for good or bad. They could muck it up for you. But the main thing is how much to tell the Advisor. Confidentially again.

[Perseus1]

If information is given by me to the Job Centre staff, are they allowed to pass it on to private companies? Like those operating the Work Programme?

Edited October 30, 2013 by Perseus1

[antone]

If information is given by me to the Job Centre staff, are they allowed to pass it on to private companies? Like those operating the Work Programme?

 

Sorry, I thought I'd posted in this thread but apparently not.

 

Anyhow, the simple answer is that JCP can't just pass on your information to anyone and everyone, as this would violate the Data Protection Act and they are Data Controllers under the terms of the DPA. However, WP providers are an exception - they are part of the same data chain as the DWP because they are operating on behalf of the DWP. So the safest thing is to assume that any information held by the DWP is also accessible by your WP provider.

 

The DWP cannot pass on information to potential employers without your consent. Neither can the provider by default, but of course they will have asked you to sign a consent form to allow them to do this when you were first referred. You can withdraw this consent. The DWP cannot pass on your medical information to third parties, nor the fact that you were unsuccessful at an interview.

[Perseus1]

Sorry, I thought I'd posted in this thread but apparently not.

 

Anyhow, the simple answer is that JCP can't just pass on your information to anyone and everyone, as this would violate the Data Protection Act and they are Data Controllers under the terms of the DPA. However, WP providers are an exception - they are part of the same data chain as the DWP because they are operating on behalf of the DWP. So the safest thing is to assume that any information held by the DWP is also accessible by your WP provider.

 

The DWP cannot pass on information to potential employers without your consent. Neither can the provider by default, but of course they will have asked you to sign a consent form to allow them to do this when you were first referred. You can withdraw this consent. The DWP cannot pass on your medical information to third parties, nor the fact that you were unsuccessful at an interview.

 

Thanks for this. I have re-read the blurb. I will have to be careful. Can the DWP pass my medical information on to the Work Programme who can pass it on to employers and then it can become well known?

Edited October 30, 2013 by Perseus1
Chinese Whispers

[Perseus1]

deleted

Edited October 31, 2013 by Perseus1

[antone]

Thanks for this. I have re-read the blurb. I will have to be careful. Can the DWP pass my medical information on to the Work Programme who can pass it on to employers and then it can become well known?

 

Basic answer is "no". The DWP may, under some circumstances, pass relevant medical information that they hold on to WP providers, but only if it's, for example, to illustrate how your medical condition might limit the type of work you could do. The WP provider cannot pass it on to employers - if they do, that's grounds for complaint to the Information Commissioner's Office.

 

A potential employer may ask you health related questions, but how and whether you answer them is between you and said employer.