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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
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HSBC Bank charges & DG solicitors


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Hello, I am trying to claim back bank charges from HSBC, I am in financial hardship and considering IVA or bankrupcy at the moment. We lost our 20 year family biz 18 months ago and struggling to keep up payemnts. Looking back on my hsbc account have calculated roughly £3500 worth of charges - several charges at £80 a time and one particular big one at £260.00 (I thinik these are combination of bounced DD's etc all in one charge). Anyway this figure of £3500 inc interest.

 

I have sent HSBC the relevant template docs etc claiming hardship and asking them to refund charges and basically got a 'No' with a request to fill in their income and expenditure form (which they omitted to encluse wih the letter) - I wrote back and said i would be happy to complete and please could they return by post as i only have a mobile and cannot afford the 0845 numebr which costs about £1.00 a minute. They replied today by letter saying no they HAVE to speak to me by phone and call the number or go to the branch. I have avoided speaking to any of my creditors and done everything in writing for some time now - which has reduced stress quite a lot, when on the phone they often pressure and I have been on anti depressents etc - could not cope with the 'cant you borrow some money off your parents' type call.

 

Today made the huge mistake of ringing them and despite my letters and claim letter explaining my depression and hardship they a/ suggested i got another job where i earnt more money and could afford my outgoings and b/ suggested i get money off a friend or family to pay the debt. They threatened that if i didnt do this then the whole account was going to be repayable in 5 days time and a formal demand would be made.

 

I asked why they could not put this in writing and they said that they could not becuase they were a call centre.. and the situation needed to be resolved quickly.

 

I am currently at £1650 overdrawn with them , the overdraft is £1500 - im not over my overdraft from over spending im over the overdraft from interest charges - or some form of charges.

 

I wanted to take this to the ombudsman but i was advised to complete their income / expenditure form first but now im frightened to talk to them over the phone and they are saying they cant deal with this by writing..

 

Can someone advise me of my next best move? Id be extremely grateful for any help here.:!:

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Unless you are calling an 0845 no on your mobile it is only a local rate call ie 5p per min dependant on your service provider.

 

They CAN deal with this in writing, but first things first open a new account with another bank not associated with HSBC (first direct is part of HSBC so not them) have all your incoming monies paid into it and make sure you sort out essential bills first ie Mortgage/Rent, gas, elec, water and council tax.

 

When they say the whole amount will become payable in 5 days - they are really saying it will be passed to their collections department and later to a collection agency.

 

Dont allow them to bully you into paying an amount which you cant afford because they WILL try this.

 

Once you have sorted out a new account and essential bills offer to pay off the O/D in small amounts (whatever you can reasonably afford) then come back for more info if needed.

 

And finally it is not too late to complain to the Ombudsman

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thank you RDM2006 im grateful for your help and advice

 

I have not actually used the account for months now, I have had another account for a while. Its been annoying that despite not using the hsbc account that the balance has jsut been increasing, i presume from interest charges for the use of the over draft. I will write to them today and like you suggest, i will offer to repay the overdraft in small affordable amounts. do you think i should mention something about the fact im only willing to communicate in writing? (althoguh thats what i did before i they said that was not possible)

thanks again for your help

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they cant get blood out of a stone

 

pers i'd let them farm this out and get it in court

which is something they willl never do

as they'll have their terrible customer relations out in the open then & that its all open to conjectuer that its unlawfull charges subject to a counter claim anyhow

 

stop using the phone, you are under NO legal obl to do so.

and also these I/E sheets, are nothing to do with them, only a court can demand that.

 

have a read of sequenci's excellent blog in my sig too!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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thansk dx - the blog is brilliant - so much useful info in there, im have printed it off and going to have aproper read through tonight - i have forward it to some friends too. thank you

 

So do you think i should just leave hsbc and see what happens rather than try and sort something out with them

Im definately not phoning them again!

 

Am i in a position to complain to the ombudsman do you think? - in terms of claiming back some bank charges?

 

thanks again

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Hsbc are really bad about charges and refuse to refund them unless you phone them and shout at them very loudly each and every time they look to charge you. They owe us about £1500 in charges for a year!!!

"In this situation, you know what you have to do? Just keep swimming, swimming, swimming." Dory - Finding Nemo.:wink:

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pers i'd sit on your hands for now

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX, i have done as advised and had a letter through today, as expected i guess. I think they are being unfair as they wrote to me a while back asking me to complete and income/expenditure - they didnt enclose it, i wrote back said can they send it so i can do it - thinking we would come to some arrangement, all i got back was they couldnt communicate in writing and needed me to call them and when i did they suggested i borrow money to pay them otherwise the full amount repayable - now this letter this morning. Its hardly them helping someone in financial hardship is it?!

 

This is the letter received;

---------------------------------

FINAL DEMAND

Despite our previous communication concerning your debt, we have yet to date received no satisfactory response. We now demand immediate payment of £1722.60. Interest will be added on the same basis as presently applies. Any current account facilities including cards, cheque books and overdrafts you currently hold have now been cancelled.

You have 18 days from the date of this letter to repay in full.

Action may be taken against you through debt collectors or solicitors if you fail to comply with this demand within 18 days of the date of this letter. You may also be taken to court.

---------------------------------------

Dx if you or anyone would be kind enough to suggest next move i would be grateful, am I best of waiting to hear from the debt collectors?

thank you for all your help

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There comment about needing to communicate over the phone is bunkum...

 

Tell them to look in the lending code, they'll know it as its the industry standard codes that all lenders have agreed to adhere to.....Specifically the bit about creditors contacting customers by the methods the customers select and if it be in writing then so be it, they MUST follow this.

 

S.

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Hi the Shadow, thanks for replies, no nothing else through the post yet..

Is there any templates on here that i can use to basically say as you said - that they do have to communicate in writing if i request or can i basically just say what you have pretty much said.

I have another creditor that is saying the same - that they can only discuss things further by telephone!

.. thanks again

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Whilst templates are good, putting it in your own words is always better imo, then you are sure you know what you are saying :-)

 

Section 144 of the lending code states:-

 

144.

Where a customer requests that the subscriber deals with them in writing or e-mail (providing that facility is available) rather than by telephone, they should do so as long as the customer remains co-operative and in regular dialogue.

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I would suggest that you ask for a copy (list) of the charges. If youn ask for a copy of the charges you may be charged £10 a time.

 

Once we have the charges if you do not have them already that is. We can show you what to do with either the FInancial Ombudsman or the court.

 

There is some verry nice people on this site use them dont be afraid to speak up.

Any typos spelling mistakes are due to leprechauns in my keyboard they move the letters around sometimes (edited for bookworm god bless her sole) Deep Peace be with you.

 

“I would say to the House as I said to those who have joined this government: I have

nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the

most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of

suffering.

 

You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs —

Victory in spite of all terror — Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for

without victory there is no survival.”

 

(Winston Churchill Addressing the House of commons.)

 

All complaints go to the lootube. All conversations go in the white box then you click submit.

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Write them a letter and ask for a copy of all charges on youre account.

 

There is no need to include legislation at this point as you may be asked to pay a £10 statute charge.

Any typos spelling mistakes are due to leprechauns in my keyboard they move the letters around sometimes (edited for bookworm god bless her sole) Deep Peace be with you.

 

“I would say to the House as I said to those who have joined this government: I have

nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the

most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of

suffering.

 

You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs —

Victory in spite of all terror — Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for

without victory there is no survival.”

 

(Winston Churchill Addressing the House of commons.)

 

All complaints go to the lootube. All conversations go in the white box then you click submit.

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pers i'd sar them

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

if you wish I can show you what you get back if you send in a letter just asking for the list of charges.

 

Plus just having the charges makes it easier to calculate the interest as you do not have to filter out other transactions.

 

It could also add in your favour when it comes to court also when you make youre bundle as the judged dosent have to locate them on statements. Bare in mind the SAR costs £10. Do you really wanna give them a beer note?

Any typos spelling mistakes are due to leprechauns in my keyboard they move the letters around sometimes (edited for bookworm god bless her sole) Deep Peace be with you.

 

“I would say to the House as I said to those who have joined this government: I have

nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. We have before us an ordeal of the

most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and of

suffering.

 

You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: Victory. Victory at all costs —

Victory in spite of all terror — Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for

without victory there is no survival.”

 

(Winston Churchill Addressing the House of commons.)

 

All complaints go to the lootube. All conversations go in the white box then you click submit.

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HSBC have sent me a list of charges - I have already written to them and asked them to refund bank charges due to hardship but they have said no. some of the chages are extortionate! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j446/roderick74/hsbccharges1.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j446/roderick74/hsbccharges2.jpg

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subscribed

 

I am in a similar position. Am curious to see how you get on with them.

 

 

Good luck, I'm rooting for you!

Please overlook my typos and spelling mistakes, sometimes my fingers arent in sync with my brain :)

I am just a consumer and have no legal training. My posts are opinion only, based on my own limited experience. If in doubt you should seek legal advice from a qualified practitioner.

 

Activ Kapital - Disputed £4,000.00 - 04/04/2011 Settled! WON!

HSBC Current Account - Defaulted for £200.00 Charges. - 19/05/2011 Charges Refunded Default Removed! WON!

HSBC Loan Account - £16,000.00 Unsecured Loan - 05/07/2011 Disputed No Further Contact WON! (for Now)

Barclaycard Account - Disputed account and £1500.00 Charges. - 18/07/2011 Charges Refunded! WON!

London Scottisht - Disputed account and Charges. £25,000.00 - 06/2011 Balance reduced by 95% WON!

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HSBC have sent me a list of charges - I have already written to them and asked them to refund bank charges due to hardship but they have said no. some of the chages are extortionate! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j446/roderick74/hsbccharges1.jpg

http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j446/roderick74/hsbccharges2.jpg

 

Ok, was the "no" given in a final response to your request... if so raise a complaint with the FOS over it.HSBC are notorious for having a very defined narrow interpretation of "Hardship". The FOS may not uphold your complaint depending on the amount of information you gave HSBC or just because they agree with HSBC but at the end of the investigation they'll charge HSBC £500 to look at the complaint in any event.

 

So either a Win,Win or a Lose,Win for you

 

S.

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