What a mess! Help please!!

[Teeshonator]

On Friday 12th July I was suspended from work at about 3pm. The reason I was given is that a customer is disputing a transaction which I did, and I was the unlucky person who served them (I work in a bank). The main reason being they couldn't find the relevant withdrawal forms, which the customer would of signed. I rang my union, she said not to worry, enjoy the sunshine. I rang ACAS, they basically said the same thing.

On Wednesday 17th July I got a phone call from a fraud investigator with the bank, asking me to an investigation meeting on the following Monday. Just to point out, he wouldn't give me any further information. I asked my union rep to come along, which she agreed.

So on Monday 22nd July I traveled an hour to meet this guy and let me tell you, it was a very long 3 hours of interrogation. Interrogation would be the only suitable word as he used to be a police officer and was basically a bully, trying to trick me into answering things incorrectly. During the interview he showed me CCTV footage of the transaction, but due to the placements of the cameras, you couldn't actually see anything! It also came to light that 2 other customers are disputing transactions. Honestly, disputed transactions are quite a regular occurrence, apparently people have more money then sense.

At the very end he asked me loads of questions about my immigration status, I am a Canadian here on a marriage visa. Then about my husbands business, as he's self employed. It might be the Canadian in me, but I was quite offended by the questions - I answered honestly and politely anyway.

 

After the interview my union rep said that it might be worth it to just resign. Because it's coming down to my word against the customers, I will loose. And because this particular company has been in the news quite a bit, trying to hold on to their ethical status, they don't want the publicity.

 

Anyway, I was offered another job a couple days later, a posted off my resignation letter. The decision wasn't easy, however, it was apparent that the accusations against me had been spread to not only the employees in my branch, but other branches as well! I didn't see a way which I could return to work there and be happy, let alone trusted.

 

Today I received a letter dated the 24th July from the financial crime department, it basically says, investigations have revealed that you have made such and such withdrawals adding up to ££. Having examined the information, unless you can satisfy us that the conclusions we have reached in our investigations are incorrect, it is our intention to record on the fraud prevention databases relevant details to your theft from customer accounts.

 

 

Now I've never been through anything like this, and frankly I couldn't risk a theft which would put my immigration status at jeopardy. But how in the hell am I supposed to prove that I haven't stolen when I've told them everything that I knew already.

 

My husband seems to think that the fraud investigator has a bully complex and once he's got the idea in his head, he won't stop.

 

Please, if anyone has any input, I am all ears.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm going to move your thread to the employment forum for now and will also let the site team know about your query in case anyone has some input on the non employment aspects. The employment guys should be along over the course of the day.

 

There will be a short term redirect from this forum to the new one for you to follow.

 

My best, HB

[steampowered]

A very difficult situation, sorry to hear about it.

 

Does the letter state what the staff database is? Is it CIFAS? If so the CIFAS website states as follows, which suggests to me that the employer is completely wrong to try and shift the burden of proof onto you:

• The Staff Fraud Database Member must have sufficient clear evidence of wrongdoing to have reasonable grounds to press criminal charges if a suspect was traced.
  
• The Staff Fraud Database Member must be willing to make a full report to the police.
  
• A criminal offence must be identifiable.
  

How long have you worked there please?

[Teeshonator]

I've called ACAS again and they've told me to defend myself through writing, rather then calling. They've basically said companies usually won't go this far if the employee has resigned, but a lawyer would be better suited as they only deal with employment rights.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Teeshonator

[Teeshonator]

Hi Steampowered,

 

Thanks for your response. The letter doesn't state which agencies they use, only to call HR for the information, however the line has been busy all day.

 

I started work there in January 2013, I realise that I don't have many rights due to such a short term of service.

[Emmzzi]

I personally woukd insist the police are called in to investigate. If you are a thief why wouldn't they make it official? Until they do they are trying it on.

[stu007]

Ok something just doesn't add up here to me.

 

1. You were called initially suspended from work.

2. Then 22nd July 2013 you attend a Fraud Investigation Interview.

3. Today 29th July 2013 you receive letter from Financial Crime Department stating the outcome of their investigation and they will record on Fraud Prevention Databases relevant detail of your theft against customer accounts.

 

So when did you attend a Disciplinary Hearing to be informed of the outcome of the letter in number 3. ?

 

Have you been given a copy of the Disciplinary Policy and Procedure?

 

Has your right to Appeal this decision been explained to you?

[Teeshonator]

Ok something just doesn't add up here to me.

 

1. You were called initially suspended from work.

2. Then 22nd July 2013 you attend a Fraud Investigation Interview.

3. Today 29th July 2013 you receive letter from Financial Crime Department stating the outcome of their investigation and they will record on Fraud Prevention Databases relevant detail of your theft against customer accounts.

 

So when did you attend a Disciplinary Hearing to be informed of the outcome of the letter in number 3. ?

 

Have you been given a copy of the Disciplinary Policy and Procedure?

 

Has your right to Appeal this decision been explained to you?

 

Sorry maybe I didn't explain it clearly.

 

1) Suspended from work on 12/7/13

2) Recieved inital letter 15/7/13 explaining procedures

3) Phone call to investigation meeting 17/7/13

4) Attended said investigation meeting 22/7/13 at which I was informed that they suspect me of fraud/theft and will need to prep misconduct reports, etc before misconduct hearing (could take upwards of a few weeks)

5) Submitted my notice 24/7/13

6) today, received letter, dated 24/7/13, just saying they are going to report me to fraud prevention database, I have until 2/8/13 to submit evidence which will change their mind.

 

I have never attended a disciplinary hearing, or been invited to one. In my initial letter where the disciplinary procedures were outlined, it states my appeal rights. However, I would have to have a actual disciplinary hearing in order to appeal obviously.

 

I assume they've decided this route as the 2/8/13 would be my last working day. They didn't have time to get the ball rolling for a disciplinary hearing. That's all I can figure.

[stu007]

If you are innocent I would not left this go as depending on which databases they intend to put this information on it could make it difficult to get work in financial sector.

 

I would still put an Appeal in writing (always get proof of posting) as per their Appeal Procedure against that letter requesting that you formally wish to Appeal this decision an require clarification as to which Fraud Prevention Database this information is to be entered and that this matter is investigated by the Police due to the serious nature of the accusations.

[steampowered]

I agree with the above. You absolutely cannot let this one go.

 

I think the first thing is to get the information in order. You should be asking for a copy of the relevant policy, a copy of the relevant investigation report and confirmation of what database they are talking about.

 

I would immediately request these documents in writing, together with confirmation that you absolutely deny all wrongdoing and feel the investigation process is heavily deficient, in particular you have not had any chance to review the evidence against you or provide a reply. You will provide a full response as soon as possible after these documents are received. I would also mention that the burden of proof is on the employer, the burden of proof is not on you to disprove things as it is virtually impossible for anyone to prove a negative.

 

I would also mention that the 2.8.13 deadline is completely unreasonable given the employer's failure to provide a copy of the report or investigate this properly. I would also mention that you will immediately bring proceedings for defamation and make a report to the regulator, if a report is made to the database before you are able to provide a proper reply, and note that the employer does not appear to have complied with CIFAS guidelines.

[Teeshonator]

Wow, thank you for the responses everyone!

 

I am currently writing up that letter now. Hardly slept at all last night, I just want all this over with!

 

During the investigatory meeting I was only shown the useless CCTV footage (approx 5 min in length) and the withdrawal forms (other then the ones which have gone missing obviously). They obviously have more to show me, considering he was asking questions about things I honestly had no previous knowledge about, someone stirring the pot or is confused. Or things he blatantly shouldn't know about, for example my husbands business or my immigration status. Would I have access to statements which people have given?

 

Just to clear up any doubts, I DID NOT DO IT. Want to scream it from the mountain tops!

[Emmzzi]

Ok. So, in the letter you are asking for police involvement, yes? This is the most important thing; proper external authority.

[Teeshonator]

Ok. So, in the letter you are asking for police involvement, yes? This is the most important thing; proper external authority.

 

Yes, I've basically restated my whole statement to them, and explained the need for police involvement.

 

There is literally little I can say/do at this point, as I haven't had a proper disciplinary meeting I have no records of statements or other acquired evidence. The burden of proof is on me it seems, to be honest I don't see what I can do other then be honest. It's not like I have my own magical CCTV footage or anything. Really at a loss for words on the whole situation.

 

I am really unsure of what more I can do as the union hasn't been much help, and ACAS seemed to be out of their depths when I asked about the fraud database and my options. The only foreseeable route is legal/police. Not all of us have the money for a solicitor, and I don't want my job back after all this - I simply don't want a 'bad mark' against me for obvious reasons.

[steampowered]

Have you responded to the letter in writing (1) denying any wrongdoing; (2) asking for a copy of the investigation report, a copy of the relevant company policy and confirmation of which fraud database the employer is referring to; (3) stating that you have not seen any evidence of wrongdoing whatsoever and the burden of proof is on the employer; and (4) explaining that you will provide a full response promptly when the requested documents have been provided?

 

In my opinion, a letter like this needs to go out urgently. If you need to take this further or contest the allegations later, it will be crucial to have a paper trail in place showing your denial of the allegation and engagement with the investigation.

[SweetLorraine]

Just a thought Teeshonator, how would you feel about withdrawing your resignation? (Obviously) done in the heat of the moment and only about a week ago, there may still be time.

[Teeshonator]

Hey everyone, just a update.

 

Received another letter today, dated the 31st July in response to my letter. It states 'The burden of proof for details to be provided to the database requires us to satisfy ourselves that there is sufficient evidence of wrongdoing and does not require criminal proceedings to be finalized with a proof of guilt. As you resigned before the allegations of fraud could be addressed with you formally my last letter gave you the opportunity to respond to those allegations. You have denied any knowledge of the transactions. I am satisfied having reviewed the evidence that we have in turn satisfied the burden of proof and details relating to your theft and the details relating to your theft from customer accounts will now be recorded on fraud prevention databases.'

 

So I know what that means, they clearly don't care what I have to say - can anyone tell me if I can expect the police anytime soon?

[SweetLorraine]

Well, you resigned instead of dealing with the allegations head-on, they may perhaps use that as a tacit admission of guilt. This may affect your new job as well of course.

 

Can you still withdraw your resignation? (Pretty odd for a union rep to advise a member to resign?).

 

The meeting of the 22nd July was to discuss one particular transaction issue. You mentioned that there are two other customer complaints - do they also relate to you as well?

[Teeshonator]

Well, you resigned instead of dealing with the allegations head-on, they may perhaps use that as a tacit admission of guilt. This may affect your new job as well of course.

 

Can you still withdraw your resignation? (Pretty odd for a union rep to advise a member to resign?).

 

The meeting of the 22nd July was to discuss one particular transaction issue. You mentioned that there are two other customer complaints - do they also relate to you as well?

 

To be honest, I've been looking for a new job for some time. When I was offered a positon elsewhere and after what the union said, it came as a welcomed surprise. I didnt expect everything to just go away but I'd rather be working then suspended.

 

It is too late to withdrawal my notice, as my last 'working day' was last Thursday. I only needed to submit a weeks notice as per my contract.

 

Yes there were other customer disputes, they were sprung on me without notice at the investigatory meeting I attended. Some were to do with me and some to do with other colleagues.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi Teeshonator,

 

fine, at least your former employers cannot put any more pressure on you in the work environment anymore. (To be honest I didn't know how practical it would be to withdraw a resignation if you were already set for a new job!).

 

My eyes are drawn to the line 'you have denied any knowledge of the transactions.' Does that stack up? At the meeting of the 22nd you must have discussed the transaction(s) and there is the (poor quality) CCTV.

 

They then go on to talk about the (alleged) thieving as if it is a 'given' fact.

 

In your reply (of the 31st) to the allegations - briefly how did you address these allegations? Denied wrongdoing, denied any knowledge of them, denied they ever happened?

[steampowered]

My personal impression is that you need to be all over this immediately to avoid disaster. The bank's investigation seems to be a farce and it sounds like he has completely misunderstood CIFAS guidelines. You need to be challenging this, right now - it will be very difficult and expensive to challenge once a report has been made.

 

I rarely do this (in fact this is the first time), but given the sensitivity I have sent you a private message with two draft letters which you might like to adapt and use - one to the investigating officer, one to the litigation team copied to Head of Human Resources. Obviously check these very carefully for accuracy as any incorrect statements will seriously undermine your credibility.

 

I think escalation is key. You need to get senior people involved to have the best chance of fair treatment. I would also ask for a copy of the relevant policy/procedures if you do not have a copy already.

 

You also need to SAR your former employer immediately in an attempt to get the documents. Have a browse round CAG to find templates for this.

[Teeshonator]

I have always denied any wrongdoing. I never thought there was a possibility of sneeky activity, such as a colleague using my passwords, etc, therefore I never denied having completed the transactions. I have upheld the fact that I NEVER stole any monies and have followed all policies and procedures expected of me. Of course, I stated that because I serve about 100+ people a day, I do not remember each and every transaction, but obviously if I were taking money, wouldn't it be on camera (me stuffing something in my pocket, etc) or even one of my colleagues to see it. I honestly don't have the guts to steal and I have no idea what they will use against me.

 

Thank you steampowered for your private message, as I said in my reply I will give a good read and edit later when I'm at the computer.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi Teeshonator,

 

it looks as though you are in good hands with steampowered.

 

It is shocking to read how far your ex-employers are seemingly prepared to extrapolate their accusations - to the point that they are writing/talking about theft - without apparently producing all the evidence to back it up.

 

Theft is a criminal act which (from what you say) they appear confident of accusing you of, yet they do not wish to involve the police? They may be leaving themselves open charges of defamation/slander/libel. I'm not a legal professional - you may wish to take advice on that aspect at a later date. For the moment you need to quash this database threat.

 

Good luck.