UK HSBC Debt living in Singapore

[chromesmic]

Dear All,

Thanks in advance for your help!

 

I have been through the threads but cannot find any relating to Singapore.

I have an outstanding HSBC UK debt approx 12K pounds. I am a Commonwealth Citizen but not a UK citizen.

The debt was with Metropolitan now it has been transferred to Central Debt Recovery UK.

 

I was paying the loan back when it was with HSBC UK but fell behind and now cannot afford to do so.

Can they come after me in Singapore? HSBC is operating in Singapore.

They have my Singapore address from HSBC UK, I have been getting letters from Central Debt Recovery but have not responded.

 

If you could please help me with advice, I cannot afford a solicitor.

thanks

[Old Cogger]

Those: - Metro and central are HSBC in house monkeys (DCA). as are D.G. so called solicitors = 1 x llp

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

I have asked the site team to move this thread to the overseas debt forum where there is a wealth of information.

 

My understanding (although very limited) is that if HSBC UK don't have a reciprocal debt collection agreement with Singapore then there is little they can do.

[citizenB]

Thread moved to overseas forums

[chromesmic]

Those: - Metro and central are HSBC in house monkeys (DCA). as are D.G. so called solicitors = 1 x llp

 

Thanks for getting back to me, I'm still not sure if they can come after me in SIngapore or actually have no authority here?

Hope to hear form you.

 

Cheers

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks for getting back to me, I'm still not sure if they can come after me in SIngapore or actually have no authority here?

Hope to hear form you.

 

Cheers

 

Don't think they can go to a Singapore court directly regarding a UK debt, but if they managed to obtain a UK court judgement, they could then approach a court in Singapore. But as you are not in the UK, they should not apply for a court claim in the UK, as they should only do so against UK residents. So if you told them you are now permanently resident in Singapore and not in a good financial position, they would have to decide what to do. They could apply for bankruptcy in the UK in your absence, but if you don't have any assets, they would be wasting their money.

 

Personally I would suggest that you just reply that you are in a poor financial situation and do not have the current means to be able to respond in any meaningful way. If they want to continue writing to you, then they should not expect any response, unless your situation improves.

[steampowered]

I'm afraid Singapore has a reciprocal enforcement arrangement with the UK ... once they have an England judgment it is easy to register and enforce that in Singapore.

 

Whether Central Debt Recovery would go down that route very difficult to say.

[theoldgit]

I'm afraid Singapore has a reciprocal enforcement arrangement with the UK ... once they have an England judgment it is easy to register and enforce that in Singapore.

 

Whether Central Debt Recovery would go down that route very difficult to say.

 

But can they get a judgement in England against a non-resident?

[steampowered]

But can they get a judgement in England against a non-resident?

 

 

Probably - the credit card agreement will contain a jurisdiction clause providing that any claim may be brought in the English courts. That would normally be enough. However they might not still have the original agreement.

[unclebulgaria67]

Probably - the credit card agreement will contain a jurisdiction clause providing that any claim may be brought in the English courts. That would normally be enough. However they might not still have the original agreement.

 

Probably = If the OP advises the creditor that they have been a permanent resident of Singapore since x date and provides some evidence of this, then any claimant would have to advise a UK court of this when making a claim. The UK court can then send the claim form to the Singapore address and the OP can then dispute jurisdiction. It then become much more complicated for the claimant to make their case for jurisdiction, as I believe they have to show that the defendent is domiciled in the UK

 

(2)An individual is domiciled in the United Kingdom if and only if—

(a)he is resident in the United Kingdom; and

(b)the nature and circumstances of his residence indicate that he has a substantial connection with the United Kingdom.

 

If the OP as defendent provides proof of being resident in Singapore at the time the claim is made, it does not matter if there is a jurisdiction clause in the original contract, as that should reflect the law and not overide it. It will always be the case that a claimant will have to make relevant arguments that a UK court can hear a consumer credit dispute against a non UK resident.

 

As far as I know you cannot use Northampton bulk centre and would have to make an application to a county court under 6.37 of part 6-service of documents. ( http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06#IDA2X3HC )

 

??????? It would be interesting to read any example cases where a county court has heard a consumer credit case against someone known not to reside in the UK.

[steampowered]

Probably = If the OP advises the creditor that they have been a permanent resident of Singapore since x date and provides some evidence of this, then any claimant would have to advise a UK court of this when making a claim. The UK court can then send the claim form to the Singapore address and the OP can then dispute jurisdiction. It then become much more complicated for the claimant to make their case for jurisdiction, as I believe they have to show that the defendent is domiciled in the UK

 

(2)An individual is domiciled in the United Kingdom if and only if—

(a)he is resident in the United Kingdom; and

(b)the nature and circumstances of his residence indicate that he has a substantial connection with the United Kingdom.

 

If the OP as defendent provides proof of being resident in Singapore at the time the claim is made, it does not matter if there is a jurisdiction clause in the original contract, as that should reflect the law and not overide it. It will always be the case that a claimant will have to make relevant arguments that a UK court can hear a consumer credit dispute against a non UK resident.

 

As far as I know you cannot use Northampton bulk centre and would have to make an application to a county court under 6.37 of part 6-service of documents. ( http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06#IDA2X3HC )

 

??????? It would be interesting to read any example cases where a county court has heard a consumer credit case against someone known not to reside in the UK.

 

Hi,

 

Part 6 of the CPR has specific provisions for serving claim forms on defendants who are not domiciled in the UK. In this situation I guess the basis for issuing the claim would be CPR 6.33 (b) (iii) (http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part06#IDA5N3HC). The reference to Article 23 of the Lugano Conventioo is as follows:

'If the parties, one or more of whom is domiciled in a Member State, have agreed that a court or the courts of a Member State are to have jurisdiction to settle any disputes which have arisen or which may arise in connection with a particular legal relationship, that court or those courts shall have jurisdiction.'

 

You may well be right that the bulk centre cannot be used for this and the claim form would need to be accompanied by a statement of grounds about the basis for jurisdiction ... but ultimately these claims can be brought in the English court system and court permission is not required to serve on the Defendant in Singapore if the claimant has a jurisdiction clause.

 

I guess its possible that the CCA adds a special twist to this but if so I'm not aware of it. Of course the theory is different from reality, your standard DCA probably does not know any of this stuff and there would be costs involved in registering and enforcing any English judgment in Singapore ... the creditor could decide it ain't worth pursuing

Edited June 26, 2013 by steampowered

[silverfox1961]

While not trying to advertise any DCA, this link from an overseas DCA shows just how hard it is to collect a disputed debt in Singapore

 

http://www.atradiuscollections.com/private/countryinfo/singapore.html

 

This link shows what is required before any action abroad can be taken

 

http://www.acitylawfirm.co.uk/debt-abroad