Vodafone default problems!

[britbloke007]

Hi All,

 

I'm a newbie here - I have a tale of woe about the huge problems caused to me by Vodafone and the advice I am hoping to get prior to taking them to court but am not sure which part of the forum I should post this?

 

Any suggestions much appreciated!

 

BB

[renegadeimp]

Hi. Welcome to CAG. The forum you need should be:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?115-Telecoms-mobile-or-fixed

[britbloke007]

Hi Guys,

 

I've seen a number of complaints about Vodafone's heavy handed approach to defaults and their refusal to remove them and would like some help with taking them to court to have my problem resolved.

 

The issue goes back to July 2011, when I had given notice on my mobile phone contract to leave Vodafone and port my number to another supplier. As part of my £30 per month contract, I was provided with ‘online billing,’ which allowed me to view my monthly bill and its detail and breakdown via the internet.

 

Notification of my final bill was sent to me on July 26th, 2011 via an email stating that my bill was ready to view and asking me to logon to view it. However, when I tried to do so, I was unable to view the bill as Vodafone had disabled my login details, which apparently they do once a final account has been issued – whether or not the customer has seen it.

 

I contacted Vodafone via their webform asking for either an itemized bill to be sent or my online access reinstated. This contact was acknowledged on August 2nd. The following day I had a response from their Customer Services team stating that they would not send me my bill unless I paid them £1.54 for a copy.

 

I replied the following day stating that I was not prepared to pay for something that they were obliged to provide me as part of my contract. Later that day I received further contact from a different agent assuring me my bill would be sent as requested in the next 3-5 days.

 

The bill was significantly higher than normal, and clearly, Vodafone is not above making mistakes and in fact had previously paid me £25 (in the form of a credit on my bill) twice, for not providing me with a PAC Code when I had asked for one.

 

Under the terms of my agreement with them, I was given 14 days notice of a charge being made against the direct debit. This period should have been plenty of time for them to send me a bill by email (as a PDF) or post or by reactivating my 'my vodafone' portal which despite the email of July 26th had in fact been disabled.

 

However, they did NONE of these things.

 

In fact I heard no more from them until I received an email on August 25th again stating that my bill was available to view online, but on checking I found as before that my login was still disabled and I was not able to view it. I waited for a paper copy, or any other follow up from Vodafone but none was forthcoming.

 

I then discovered that Vodafone took payment of my account by direct debit – still without having provided the bill on 8th August. I believe this broke the terms of their agreement with me that bills would be made available 14 days before payment would be taken. I did however continue to wait for a bill from them, despite having already asked TWICE for it to be sent when they told me, incorrectly, that it was available to view online on July 26th and August 25th.

 

Having asked TWICE for my bill and having been promised 3 times that I would see it online or by post when in fact NONE of these methods resulted in the bill being received, I contacted my bank. This bill was over 3 times the normal amount of my contract and I wished to see what they were charging me for before they took payment.

 

My bank explained to me that under the terms of the direct debit guarantee I was entitled to ask for the payment to be recalled as Vodafone had failed to provide me with an itemised bill. However, I did not recall the payment straight away, but gave them several more weeks to see if they would comply with my repeated requests for an itemized bill, but when they failed to do so, I recalled the payment.

 

When I received a chasing letter in September, I again and for the third time, phoned Vodafone and asked for a copy of my itemised bill – which Vodafone acknowledges.

 

Vodafone then claimed to have left me a voicemail on 7th October 2011 though I cannot speak for this as it is over 18 months ago. All I can state quite clearly and categorically is that EVERY communication I had from them, whether by post or by email was met with the same request: "SEND ME MY ITEMISED BILL!!!!!"

They could have done this easily and quickly by either (a) reinstating my 'my vodafone' portal, or (b) to email over a copy of my bill which I could have received in seconds, but they did not.

 

Had any further calls or letters from them or any of their appointed collection agencies been made or received, I would have responded to ALL OF THEM in exactly the same way: "SEND ME THE BILL PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!" However, no further communication was received - no debt letters (which I could respond to) or threats of court action (where I could defend myself) NOTHING!

 

From my perspective, the 'ball' at this point very much remained in Vodafone's court. I had made repeated and reasonable requests of them to provide me with a fully itemised bill, which they had simply failed to do.

 

My willingness to pay has never been in doubt, in fact I paid all my previous bills promptly. I consider myself a reasonable person to deal with and someone who has persisted in giving them a chance to give me the information I needed to make an informed payment decision. However, I do not feel that Vodafone has operated in a fair and reasonable way with me. I also don’t know whether it is legal or not to do this when a bill is still under dispute, but it surely seems like very poor business practice to me.

 

This ONE default on my credit file is having a catastrophic impact on my ability to obtain a competitively priced mortgage. I have already had to pull out of one house purchase as a result of being informed that instead of getting a rate of 4.29% with Nat West – a ‘Newbuy’ Mortgage, who when I called said they wouldn't even PROCESS my application if any default – paid or not – even for £1 – was still on my file. I would only qualify for the 4.95% ‘specialist lender’ mortgage, making the repayments THOUSANDS of pounds higher over the 3 year fix period. I would also have to find a 15% deposit rather than the 10% deposit I had budgeted for which puts a huge strain on my finances.

 

My broker further explained that the difference between a good credit score mortgage and a ‘sub prime’ mortgage was around 0.70% in additional interest over the proposed 3 year fix period. For the amount I was looking to borrow this equated to an additional payment of around £50 per month – or around £1800 in additional payments made over the term as a result of having this one default on my credit file.

 

I contacted Vodafone and explained my mortgage predicament and asked them to remove the default for the bill that they had never given me. The agent I spoke to said it would be put to another team who would review all the evidence and write to me with their decision within 14 days. I asked who this would be but this information was refused as was my request to provide any further information in order for that department to make a properly informed decision.

 

My bill was finally sent by email PDF on Wednesday 5th September where I queried its content in an email on 7th September I received a call from Vodafone on Saturday 9th where they basically told me it was unfortunate that my charges were so high but there was nothing they could do as they were ‘out of contract’ charges which they were entitled to claim. Despite my requests, they declined to justify them, or otherwise explain how the charges made related to the actual costs they incurred for me making these calls.

 

I received a letter on Monday 10th of September with the decision from the team that had previously refused to take the information from me that I have provided here. This stated that they were ‘legally required’ to provide an accurate payment history on my credit file and despite making no effort to understand my issues or involve me and the evidence I provided, told me that they were unable to help me further and suggesting I contact the Ombudsman and make a case there which I did. After 4 months of waiting and in an incredibly one sided judgement, they rejected my case, but suggested that I consider using the court system as the final arbiter of justice. I've sent Vodafone an FOA request for all the papers and of course a copy of the 'default' letter I never actually had for a bill I didnt have for an account that was in dispute!

 

So now I am going to take them to court. The advice I seek from the learned people here is:

 

Has anyone done this before?

Can I file a claim for compensation based on the increased costs of the mortgage which I will now have to take out?

 

Any advice welcome - and thanks for reading my post!

Edited May 7, 2013 by britbloke007

[britbloke007]

Thanks very much!

[BankFodder]

I'm away at the moment and I'm doing this on a phone.

I'll be able to get involved more closely during the weekend.

however the brief answer is that you can sue them and you have an excellent chance of success.

the courts can award very high damages when you can show definite evidence of loss caused by unlawful interference with your credit file.

the only problem might be that the small claims limit may not be enough to cover your losses.

if you think that there is any further info which you don't have and which Vf might have, then send them an SAR.

Make a detail account of what you think your losses are.

VF are clearly in breach of contract to you.

once you issue court papers you will find that they will start talking to you like a real person - although they will try to placate you by offering you bonbons instead of a proper settlement.

let's see what we can do.

[tm166]

Well if you have taken out any house or car insurance you may have already occurred increased costs.

 

The following is from Association of British Insurers.

 

Bankruptcy, and credit scoring more generally, can be an indicator of risk and evidence shows that it is predictive of claims experience. Information collected by reference agencies to determine a credit score will typically include details of county court judgements (CCJs) and bankruptcy. As such, some – but not all – insurers use credit scores as one of several rating factors to determine risk, and a poorer credit history is likely to lead to a higher premium.

[britbloke007]

Thanks for that guys.

 

I've had a look at their SAR form (available online but I cant seem to post it here) which if you read the small print it doesnt seem like they keep many records at all! I'll send of for mine though - but I suspect they wont be able to provide much of the information I want. They state that they dont have copies of the original contract - and I'm sure these would have changed in the last 3 years so I dont think the current one would be the same.

 

They also dont keep copies of letters, just make a 'note' on the system that they've sent them. I doubt very much this would stand up as 'proof' in a court of law. Over the years I have dealt with all the mobile providers and have found Vodafone the worst by a country mile.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi britbloke007,

 

Thanks for making me aware of this situation.

 

While I can't guarantee a different outcome I'd be happy to get this looked into further for you. To enable me to do this could you email me with your details via the Contact us form here and quote the code WRT135 - CAG Forum in the subject line?

 

Once sent you'll receive an automated reply with a reference number. To make sure it reaches me could you update the thread with this and I'll get back to you as soon as possible?

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

vodafone UK

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi britbloke007,

 

It's just a quick update to this thread to confirm that I've replied to you here.

 

Thanks,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[britbloke007]

Lee,

 

I have completed the form but have had no automated reply.

 

BB

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi BB,

 

Thanks for coming back to me.

 

Having checked our emails I can confirm that I've got yours and so will get back to you as soon as possible.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[britbloke007]

Spoke briefly with Lee - who sadly but not unexpectedly toed the corporate line showing a consistent lack of interest in resolving the situation, so I have issued an SAR and will go from there.

 

@BankFodder - thanks very much to offer assistance, once I have whatever information they are able to send me (not expecting much or for Vodafone to be 'helpful' in any way whatsoever) some assistance in preparing my case would be excellent.

 

Looking forward to having my day in court!

[dave666]

I feel your pain britbloke. Vodafone are a law to themselves. I have a default on my file because of Vodafone incompetence. I have been with them since 2004 and still with them and in 2010 I got a bailiff letter for over £100, I ran the bailiffs to be told Vodafone had passed the debt over to them. I called Vodafone to find out why. And after some time investigating, it was down to an upgraded phone which was miss sold to me and sent back the next day.

 

Vodafone admitted all liability and said sorry. They stopped the bailiffs and cancelled the debt and told me the default would be taken off straight away.

Well I have been struggling for years now to get any credit and last month I decided to check my credit history again only to find out Vodafone have not taken the default off.

 

I gave them a call to be told they could not find the problem, and after a few calls someone from Vodafone said yes it will be taken off and sorry for this has not been done. I kept checking my credit file and still not taken off.

 

I ended up taken a week off work to try and sort this. I kept calling them, only to be told they couldn't fine any default on me and asked me to take a copy of a printed screen into the shop to prove this and when I did the woman had to ring head office only to be told the default had been taken off 2 days ago and to wait 48 hours for it to show on my credit file.

 

Again this never happened so I called creditexpert to be told they had not been told to take it off.... Again I called Vodafone, and after about 30 minutes the adviser had dug around and found the problem and again I got the sorrys blah blah and the default would be taken off within 48 hours. I asked about compensation, the advisor said hold the line I will go and ask for you, only to be cut off.

So I called back and got a different advisor. I asked to speak with the advisor I was dealing with but ended up talking to this other guy about it and he said yes the default will be taken off, but I said I was cut off and the other advisor went to see about compensation, this guy Jack said hold the line the manager is only across the way I will go and ask. He come back saying what do you expect, I told him make me an offer, he said we only give out 5 or 10 pound compo.

 

I was not happy with this and we ended up arguing about it. in the end I said the only compo I wanted is a letter from Vodafone explaining they was in fault for not taking the default off me 3 years ago and I will seek legal advise. This guy Jack started telling me they wont do this. They don't send letters out, and its your fault really for not keep checking that the default had not been taken off. This made me mad and in the end after arguing telling him I was going and cut him off.

 

Vodafone sent me an email stating this:

 

Please advise customer that there is a SLA of 48 hoursand that any amendments can take a further 48 hours to show on their creditfiles BAN xxxxxxxxxx CUSTOMER S NAME Mr David Taylor COMMENTS The customer wasmissold a new connection and was told it was an upgrade with xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. The account was setup with new account number and customer wasunaware of the separate bill. This has been requested several times but for thewrong account number. Acc 318254985 Date of Default 02 09 2010

I have blanked out the numbers.

2 days later Vodafone called me telling me that they was not going to take the default off my file now because after searching more it was down to my old number which wasn't cancelled and that's why the default had been put on me... I explained how come then Vodafone cancelled the payments because it was your mistake and admitted that and promised me the default would be taken off 3 years ago and only the other day after sending the email that it would be taken off.

The advisor just kept saying it was because of the old number, but I told him I had cancelled that number and I am still with you and have been since 2004 if I had not cancelled that number why was no letter sent to me saying I had not paid. I was told they don't send letters out we tried to call you but no answer, I told him no that's right I wouldn't of answered because I had a new number so surely as a big company you would sent a letter.

He said the account got cancelled and they scrapped the money. I said no big company would scrap a debt, and why wasn't a notice of the default be sent by letter. He said they would of been. I told him I never received a bill nor a default letter, the first I heard was a bailiff threatening letter. He then said well we might of texted you the info.

I then told the advisor the only reason Vodafone scrapped the amount supposed to be owed was because they admitted they messed up over a missold phone, which they cancelled the debt and promised to take the default off me.

I asked to speak to a manager, which he said he would go and ask. 10 minutes later after been on hold the advisor came back to say the manager wouldn't come on the phone because he could not do anything that the advisor is doing.

This has been causing me really bad stress and not sure what to do. I think I have no other options left. I suffer from bad anxiety, and have been keeping under control but this has started it all off. Looks like I will have to wait 3 more years for it to be gone. I do feel this has not been taken of due to the argument I had with the advisor. All promises to be taken off then slam hit with a sledge hammer.

I have until end of the year then bye bye Vodafone. Never will I deal with such a company who takes the law in their own hands.

[britbloke007]

Hi Dave,

 

You've had some very bad treatment there. I am amazed at how badly run and un-customer friendly a company like Vodafone are. You'd think they would bend over backwards to help their customers but the more I hear about other people's experiences the more I realise that callous indifference is the norm for these people. Somebody needs to stand up to these bully boy tactics and expose them in a court of law - more than happy for that person to be me.

 

BB

[dave666]

If I could afford to take them to court I would.

 

Considering I am still a customer and always have been since 2004, you would have thought they could send me a letter. To not send a letter out and to say now its down to my old number and not the misssold phone is disgusting. And if it was really down to my old number which I don't believe it was, why wouldn't they contact me by letter when the phone sim was in use... They could have contacted me on my new number considering they have me on file same name same address same direct debit from bank. Even on Experian does not show a break from 2004 to present so surely Vodafone have details of all my info since 2004.

 

Seems because they are such a big company, they think they can do whatever they like, just to screw us little people over.

 

Now I am wondering if Lee might look in to my problems, but I guess nothing would come of it. Here is the credit report of the default.[ATTACH=CONFIG]43745[/ATTACH]

[BankFodder]

Why can't you afford to take them to court?

 

It's not very much

[dave666]

Things are tight at the moment.

[britbloke007]

I took the RAC to court 2 years ago over a botched call out where they diagnosed my 'fault' over the phone and didnt attend. I got £200 compensation for the expenses and hassle that their misdiagnosis caused. It cost me £30 to file as I recall. You might be surprised how sympathetic a Judge can be if you present your case and evidence clearly, but instead of waiting months for Vodafone or the Ombudsman (which would be your next option) to look into your complaint you'll get a binding judgement in less than 1 hour.

[locutus]

If things are tight you can probably get help with court fees

 

Also, for damage to reputation it could be a sizable claim... you really should look into this.

[britbloke007]

@BankFodder - do I need to send a Subject Access Request when one of the provisions of the LBA allows me to request all the documents I require prior to filing my case?

[BankFodder]

What LBA are you using?

[britbloke007]

The 'Which' one.

[britbloke007]

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-before-small-claims-court-claim/

[BankFodder]

I haven't seen that one before.

By and large it is optimistic.

 

 

• Most companies will ignore your LBA
  
• Most companies will not provide you with the documents you require
  
• Most companies are not interested in ADR and most don't even know what it stands for
  
• The Practice Direction applies whether or not you draw the other side's attention to it
  
• Most companies won't bother to treat you or your complaint seriously until you have proved you are not buffing - and you do this by issuing the claim
  

If you think that there are documents which you need to see then send an SAR. This has the force of law - although it takes 40 days and costs £10

 

 

Otherwise, just confirm a brief outline of the facts and give them 14 days or you will sue.

Then sue

[britbloke007]

Thanks for that. I will send a very detailed SAR - though I very much doubt they will provide most of not all of the documents I am asking for as the SAR form you have to use states that they cant provide:

 

• Transcripts of calls over 60 days old
  
• Copies of contracts
  
• Copies of letters or emails unless specifically 'attached' to a consumers file - mostly they just log which type of 'standard' letter has been sent and when
  

 

I would have to assume though that if they don't produce this information to me, they can't suddenly produce it as evidence in any subsequent action?

 

An angle I'm interested in is 'defaulting' an account which is in dispute, which I think I read somewhere is a breach of the Information Commissioners guidelines?