Vodafone default problems!

[britbloke007]

This is the link to Vodafone's SAR form: https://www.vodafone.co.uk/cs/groups/public/documents/webcontent/vftst031658.pdf

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Spoke briefly with Lee - who sadly but not unexpectedly toed the corporate line showing a consistent lack of interest in resolving the situation, so I have issued an SAR and will go from there.

 

@BankFodder - thanks very much to offer assistance, once I have whatever information they are able to send me (not expecting much or for Vodafone to be 'helpful' in any way whatsoever) some assistance in preparing my case would be excellent.

 

Looking forward to having my day in court!

 

Hi britbloke007,

 

I'm sorry that I wasn't able to provide you with the resolution that you're seeking.

 

If I could afford to take them to court I would.

 

Considering I am still a customer and always have been since 2004, you would have thought they could send me a letter. To not send a letter out and to say now its down to my old number and not the misssold phone is disgusting. And if it was really down to my old number which I don't believe it was, why wouldn't they contact me by letter when the phone sim was in use... They could have contacted me on my new number considering they have me on file same name same address same direct debit from bank. Even on Experian does not show a break from 2004 to present so surely Vodafone have details of all my info since 2004.

 

Seems because they are such a big company, they think they can do whatever they like, just to screw us little people over.

 

Now I am wondering if Lee might look in to my problems, but I guess nothing would come of it. Here is the credit report of the default.[ATTACH=CONFIG]43745[/ATTACH]

 

Hi dave666,

 

Thanks for your time on the phone yesterday.

 

As promised, I'll get back to you again as soon as possible.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[Conniff]

So that Lee doesn't have to update two threads, I have merged them both into this one.

[dave666]

 

Hi dave666,

 

Thanks for your time on the phone yesterday.

 

As promised, I'll get back to you again as soon as possible.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

Lee it was good to actually talk to someone who knows how to talk to the customer from Vodafone. Not like the rest of the CS I have spoken to.

Looking forward to hearing back and hopefully some good news but I wont get my hopes up.

 

Regards,

 

Dave.

[dave666]

Thanks for that. I will send a very detailed SAR - though I very much doubt they will provide most of not all of the documents I am asking for as the SAR form you have to use states that they cant provide:

 

• Transcripts of calls over 60 days old
  
• Copies of contracts
  
• Copies of letters or emails unless specifically 'attached' to a consumers file - mostly they just log which type of 'standard' letter has been sent and when
  

 

I would have to assume though that if they don't produce this information to me, they can't suddenly produce it as evidence in any subsequent action?

 

An angle I'm interested in is 'defaulting' an account which is in dispute, which I think I read somewhere is a breach of the Information Commissioners guidelines?

 

I am very surprised that a company of this size does not keep records of any letters sent out but only keep a mark on your account which letter has been sent.

How could they actually prove the letter had been sent out in court?

[epic]

Apologies for hijacking someone's post but i am wondering if i need to open my own thread regarding a Vodafone Default or is it continued on this one? sorry to be a pain and all info would be appreciated.

 

Thanks again

[ims21]

Apologies for hijacking someone's post but i am wondering if i need to open my own thread regarding a Vodafone Default or is it continued on this one? sorry to be a pain and all info would be appreciated.

 

Thanks again

 

Best to start your own thread for you particular issue.

 

Saves advice all getting muddled.

[britbloke007]

I am very surprised that a company of this size does not keep records of any letters sent out but only keep a mark on your account which letter has been sent.

How could they actually prove the letter had been sent out in court?

 

Thats a very good point! The more I look at Vodafone's actions the more I can see discrepancies in how 'defaults' should be recorded and what they actually did in my case. Although its long, I highly recommend reading this document from the Information Commissioners Office which sets out the guidelines for how companies should 'behave' when recording a default on a customers credit file and how the ICO evaluate disputes: http://www.ico.org.uk/~/media/documents/library/data_protection/detailed_specialist_guides/default_tgn_version_v3%20%20doc.ashx in particular sections 39 to 44.

[epic]

Thanks for info

[britbloke007]

I contacted the Communications Ombudsman today to find out how many complaints they get about all the main mobile providers. I wasn't sure if I would have to do an FOA request for this but they told me they would be fine to give me the information - I would just have to wait a week or two. Apparently they will "soon" be listing this information on their website which will surely make interesting reading. If you see Vodafone's name appear anywhere on CAG you'll see the note about CAG getting a 'disproportionate number of complaints' about the damage they are inflicting on people's credit files through 'carelessness and poor systems.' I'm wondering if the number of complaints the Ombudsman is getting about Vodafone is also 'disproportionate?'

 

Section 40 of the ICO guidelines states:

 

Any decisions on enforcement action will be taken in accordance with our Regulatory Action Strategy. When we consider enforcement action in cases where there is inconclusive evidence of whether a default did or did not occur, or the amount of a default, we must make a judgement on whether we consider that the Information Tribunal would support a view that a default record filed with an agency is incorrect or misleading. To reach a judgement we will consider, among other factors:

 

 any evidence that exists, even if it is inconclusive;  the credibility of the data subject;  the credibility of the lender;  the reliability of the lender’s internal procedures;  the existence of other similar complaints about the lender; and  the use which the customer, or lender has made of other mechanisms

to determine the accuracy of the record, for instance the courts or a relevant ombudsman scheme.

 

The points that stand out here are (a) the reliability of the lenders internal procedures and (b) the existence of similar complaints about the lender and © the use of which the customer, or lender has made of other mechanisms to determine the accuracy of the record, for instance the courts of Ombudsman.

 

I would imagine that a disproportionate number of complaints could be considered evidence that flawed internal procedures that lead to defaults being issued in the first place, and then not having an adequate process for resolving issues before they reach the court or Ombudsman. In my case, Vodafone took very little time at all to decide they were 'justified' in their actions but will likely spend a great deal of time now having to defend that position.

[dave666]

Did you send a SAR to them?

Dont think you will get much back from them. Keep this updated because I might need your help with what to do, because I think if I dont hear any good news from Lee I will start the proceedings of court.

 

I didnt realise how little the cost was until it was posted.

[britbloke007]

Yes - I've sent my SAR in. This is not going to be a quick process though. They have 40 days to respond so taking court action is not necessarily a quick fix but if you are looking for compensation its the only route to go down. If you decide to sue, I would imagine they'll take one of two routes, either make an offer to settle or "see you in court"

 

Filing a case is relatively inexpensive and related to how much you are claiming. There's an interesting blog here about someone who sued a landlord and the steps/costs involved which gives you an idea of the process: http://www.howtotakesomeonetocourt.info/joomla/ If you go down this route you'll need to decide the basis for your claim. A Judge will need to see that Vodafone has acted 'unlawfully' and that you have suffered as a consequence of their actions. As much as large companies might feel they can act in any way they see fit and get away with it they do actually have to abide by the law like the rest of us! I would suggest carefully studying the ICO guidelines to see what regulations they may have broken in your case.

 

The good news is that civil courts work on a 'balance of probabilities' argument, meaning that your case would be found in your favour if the court is satisfied with the evidence you have provided 'on the balance of probabilities' being correct rather than 'beyond reasonable doubt' used in criminal cases which requires a much higher standard of 'proof'. You might also like to read this story about someone who had problems with 02 and how the default impacted his credit score when it was removed: http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/feb/17/o2-debt-mortgage-application.

 

@CAG - when you state that the number of complaints against Vodafone are 'disproportionate' - can you put a figure on that so we can get some more detailed insight into the size of the problems they are causing?

 

The whole nightmare that Vodafone has put me through has certainly changed the way I evaluate a mobile phone provider.

[dave666]

All I want is my default and late payments taken off. If not my last action will be the courts.

[britbloke007]

Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst!

[britbloke007]

For those considering issuing a Subject Access Request, I thought it might be helpful to post the details of mine here. The information I am asking for relates specifically to my case, but for those still unsure about the type of information they might want to ask for, this might give you some ideas. Please note - I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice - I'm just a very unhappy former Vodafone customer!

 

 

 

Please find listed below the information I require from Vodafone as part of my Subject Access Request attached to this document.

Please supply the following:

 

1. A copy of your current contract terms and conditions highlighting any differences between this document and the one that was in force when I took out my contract with you in 2010.

 

2. Copies of all correspondence – written or email – between yourselves and myself from February 2010 to May 2013. Please ensure the correspondence is dated with the address it was sent to. If the address is a ‘physical’ address, please provide that. If the address is an email address, please provide that. If you do not have copies of the original letters, please provide the ‘type’ of letter sent including but not limited to itemized bills, reminders, chasing letters, default notices, or any letters sent on your behalf by collection agencies (whether internal or external) and specific examples of the content of these letters where addressed copies are no longer on file. Please ensure that the dates these ‘standard’ letters were sent are made clear for each document.

 

3. Transcripts of all conversations that have been kept of phone conversations between myself and Vodafone, its agents or proxies, between February 2010 and May 2013. Where no transcripts exist, please provide any written summary or notes that were made that you attached to my file. Please ensure these include all conversations, whether Vodafone instigated the contact or I did.

 

4. Copies of all internal emails where information about my account was shared internally within Vodafone including names of senders/recipients ensuring this includes their job title and department within the company. Please ensure this also includes internal email correspondence between ‘Lee’ the Vodafone representative on the Consumer Action Group board.

 

5. Copies of all emails, letters or other forms of written communication between yourselves and the Communications Ombudsman regarding the case I filed against Vodafone – their reference number xxxxxx. Please also supply copies of any internal emails sent regarding this case.

 

6. Transcripts of all verbal conversations between yourselves and the Communications Ombudsman regarding the above case, or where these do not exist, copies of notes that were made after the conversations that were attached to the file for the case. Please provide these in time/date order to ensure they can be clearly understood and the correct ‘timeline’ can be followed.

 

7. A copy of Vodafone’s current policy and procedures in chasing ‘unpaid’ balances. Specifically, please provide your written policy on which letters you send and the timescales between each type of letter. If this policy has changed in any way during the period 2010 to 2013 please highlight this with a clear explanation of why the changes were made.

 

8. A copy of Vodafone’s written policies regarding the issuance of a ‘default’ marker to a customer credit reference file. Specifically, please highlight the portions of this policy that cover the issuance of a ‘default’ to customers who have an unresolved dispute for the amount in question.

 

9. Copies of any invoices where any invoice credits were applied by Vodafone (please highlight these,) with a detailed explanation of why these credits were made.

 

10. Any other information that you are holding regarding me or my account that has not been covered by the above that you have or might produce or rely on in a court of law if legal action is taken against you.

 

11. Further to my letter of April 22nd addressed to Vodafone CEO Guy Lawrence, please confirm if Mr Lawrence actually read my letter and if so provide any emails or notes to file that came from him that were addressed internally showing his response or direction to his officers.

 

 

As and when I get a reply, I'll let everyone know what information they actually provide me with...!

Edited May 14, 2013 by britbloke007

[britbloke007]

Here's a VERY interesting blog post about Vodafone and the 'default' misery they seem to be inflicting on customers in Australia - where a 'class action' of 20,000+ customers is currently under way. Wow!

 

http://mycra.com.au/blog/2013/03/vodafone-customers-desperate-defaulted/

[epic]

Sorry to Hijack this thread but i was advised to contact Lee and i cannot send a PM until i have more than 30 posts do you have a direct email Lee or can you message me?

 

Thanks

[ims21]

Sorry to Hijack this thread but i was advised to contact Lee and i cannot send a PM until i have more than 30 posts do you have a direct email Lee or can you message me?

 

Thanks

 

You do not need to PM him.

 

Follow the instructions that dx100uk gave you in post #2 on your thread.

[epic]

Thanks .. hard day at work plus kid = headache.. after reading it again I now know what to do it was misleading in the way they explained what to do, so for example:

 

"contact Lee the voda rep via this method:

We thought it would be nice to introduce ourselves and to assure you all that our presence on CAG is with the very best of intentions"

 

then eventually has the paragraph I required, thanks again Doh!

[ims21]

 

I know how you feel.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Lee it was good to actually talk to someone who knows how to talk to the customer from Vodafone. Not like the rest of the CS I have spoken to.

Looking forward to hearing back and hopefully some good news but I wont get my hopes up.

 

Regards,

 

Dave.

 

You're welcome Dave.

 

Please be assured that I'll get back in touch with you as soon as possible.

 

Apologies for hijacking someone's post but i am wondering if i need to open my own thread regarding a Vodafone Default or is it continued on this one? sorry to be a pain and all info would be appreciated.

 

Thanks again

 

Hi epic,

 

I'll reply to you here in a moment.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

[dave666]

You're welcome Dave.

 

Please be assured that I'll get back in touch with you as soon as possible.

 

 

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK

 

Thanks Lee. I have looked on my record and the default and late payments have been taken off last night. I called Exparian and confirmed it had been taken off.

 

Strange that no one has contacted me though.

 

Regards,

 

Dave.

[dave666]

Update... Lee has called me and Vodafone have taken the default and late payments off. Thanks Lee for looking into this.

 

Lee any chance of letting me know what the verdict was to why this was taken off my account. I did mean to ask but forgot as I was at work.

 

Thanks.

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Dave,

 

Thanks for updating the thread again following our conversation yesterday.

 

As requested, I'll call you again later this afternoon to discuss things further.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations Team

 

Vodafone UK