Driving alone with provisional (Sticky situation. Input needed, please)

[Jay_]

I was stopped last year for driving without insurance. This was partially my fault, as the insurance company did not send a notice to when the insurance had expired and it was a matter of ONE day.

 

My licence was revoked under the new drivers act and 6 points were given to me. I received my provisional with 6 points on there and have retaken my theory test and am now waiting to take my practical test.

 

Now I did a dumb thing today and drove the vehicle alone. I was also speeding, doing 54mph in a 30mph zone (about 20 other drivers were also pulled over) by traffic police with radar guns. They did not question me on the licence part which I am glad about but they seized the vehicle again for having no insurance.

 

Now here's the tricky part. I am the registered owner of the vehicle, but the insurance that the car had was under a family members name as I have not been driving it. How do I get the seized vehicle out of the impound and what will happen to me?

 

I am due to retake my driving test in June, but I may postpone that until this is all sorted out.

 

I know this is my fault and I acknowledge that and it was a really idiotic thing to do, but any help and input would be greatly appreciated.

[Jay_]

Double post, sorry

Edited April 27, 2013 by Jay_
Double post

[dx100uk]

urm...

 

going by your other thread and the way this & that are written

 

I doubt this IS the first time your have driven alone

 

nor over the speed limit

 

we[re not here to judge but

 

there are limits to what members might feel acceptable to help on.

[Jay_]

I understand, I don't expect you to believe a word. Just wanted a little bit of input as to how the situation can be resolved lol

[BanditQueen]

Sorry, got no sympathy for you! You have done three dumb things all illegal and the fact you know they are dumb makes it worse. The insurance is your obligation to be fully aware when it is due! If you are responsible on the car for the insurance as it is your car then you should have some idea when it is due unless you are in your grand old age or something! The insurance should have come out at least 14 days before and if it did not then you should have contacted the company and asked what your renewal was and taken care of it. You say this is dumb, well fine you got the points and paid the price. Fine.

 

But then you got the provincial with 6 points and drove without a qualified licensed driver. Then you were speeding which is even more dumb. You own up to the fault but what is the point if you do not learn your lesson?

 

First of all you should not be allowed to take a test until you are proven sensible enough to do so! You are a dumb person and you need to learn a harsh lesson! I would postpone your test and when you go to court plead guilty and I must warn you, you can and probably will face a ban for this. You will lose your license if you have 12 points and I am certain the speeding is three and the other offense is at least three or more. I am sorry but you will not be able to take your test as you will face a ban of at least 6-12 months. You may as well get a train or bus pass instead.

 

When you go to court plead guilty and apologise and forget about your test for now. Grow up first and then take it in another five years or so. Cheers.

[Jay_]

Sorry, got no sympathy for you! You have done three dumb things all illegal and the fact you know they are dumb makes it worse. The insurance is your obligation to be fully aware when it is due! If you are responsible on the car for the insurance as it is your car then you should have some idea when it is due unless you are in your grand old age or something! The insurance should have come out at least 14 days before and if it did not then you should have contacted the company and asked what your renewal was and taken care of it. You say this is dumb, well fine you got the points and paid the price. Fine.

 

But then you got the provincial with 6 points and drove without a qualified licensed driver. Then you were speeding which is even more dumb. You own up to the fault but what is the point if you do not learn your lesson?

 

First of all you should not be allowed to take a test until you are proven sensible enough to do so! You are a dumb person and you need to learn a harsh lesson! I would postpone your test and when you go to court plead guilty and I must warn you, you can and probably will face a ban for this. You will lose your license if you have 12 points and I am certain the speeding is three and the other offense is at least three or more. I am sorry but you will not be able to take your test as you will face a ban of at least 6-12 months. You may as well get a train or bus pass instead.

 

When you go to court plead guilty and apologise and forget about your test for now. Grow up first and then take it in another five years or so. Cheers.

Thanks for the input. The first reason is because the insurance company took the direct debit when the renewal was due the first time so I assumed they would again. I was on a rapid bonus policy at the time and I had no idea that it they would not take the direct debit the second time as the policy apparently changed and did not offer the rapid bonus policy any more. This is why I accept partial fault to this as I should have been more aware on when it was due for renewal.

 

I did learn my lesson the first time, I know I shouldn't have taken the vehicle out but it was scheduled for a repair today and my sibling and myself are the only ones with a licence in our family and they aren't around for a Month. I know this is not an acceptable excuse, which is why I take 100% blame.

 

I will definitely plead guilty at court. If I do not retake my test before the hearing, I will still be on my provisional with 6 points on it. Are they still able to issue a ban to a provisional licence holder?

[BanditQueen]

I have heard of cases when it has happened yes, and then the points are transfered from one to the other. They are recorded at the court and the DVLA and it is good that you will plead guilty. That is a good start. if they take payment by direct debit the first time then they will normally do so at renewal but if they are not doing the same policy they should have offered or been able to offer another quote for another policy and at least given you the chance to shop around. Never assume anything with an insurance company. They do not act under the normal laws of man, they act often according to their own rules, but also within the complex laws of car insurance. I can understand why you make the error, but that is how the courts see it, no insurance and they really do not care why. But it would be better to get more practice first and sort this out before your test. I think you probably have enough to worry about, get the court out of the way and then take your test, if you are able to; you can and may well get a ban no matter what license you have. It would be better to start afresh in another year or two. After so many years you can also have them removed. A solicitor will be able to tell you more on this. All the best.

[assisted blonde]

you can only get the car back by someone showing valid insurance and paying the storage costs

[scotgal68]

If you go to court and get 6 points on your provisional licence they will carry over. then when you pass your test, you will lose your new licence again because of the 6 point two year rule for new drivers.

[renegadeimp]

In this case, it is best to forget your driving test in june, unless the court go very easy on you.

 

Dont bother applying for a full test until the points have elapsed, or a court says otherwise. Courts look down on people who obviously knew what they were doing was illegal but chose to do it anyway.

 

You could get away with mitigating circumstances such as on the way to hospital or something similar, but its clear you deliberately broke the law. The only way forward now is to be VERY apologetic to the court when you get there, but don't make any silly excuses. Just tell them you had no reason to do what you do and you now realise it was a VERY stupid and immature thing you did that could have resulted in very serious consequences.

 

You need to be sincere and honest, as they would already have a copy of your record and would see right through any lies you might tell. Especially since you have done similar before.

 

Again, just be very apologetic, admit your failings, DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES ( seriously, it's the worst thing you can do) and be ready for a lengthy ban. Be truthful and outright admit that what you did was very stupid indeed.

 

If you please guilty right from the start, including any police interviews, under UK law, you automatically get a "discount" off any punishment. If you start making excuses and they see you are lying, that would be waived.

Edited April 27, 2013 by renegadeimp

[Aretnap]

If you go to court and get 6 points on your provisional licence they will carry over. then when you pass your test, you will lose your new licence again because of the 6 point two year rule for new drivers.

No he won't. Generally if you already have 6 points at the time you first pass your test you have your licence revoked if you get any further points within your first two years of driving. I'm a little vague on what happens if you've already served a totting ban but you certainly don't have to take your test twice to get a licence - that's not the point.

[Aretnap]

To the OP - you'll get 6-8 points for driving without insurance. They probably won't impose additional points for the licence offence as it was committed on the same occasion as the more serious no insurance offence. They may or may not impose additional points for the speeding, but it doesn't really make much difference as you'll have at least 12 by then anyway.

 

Yes they can ban you with a provisional licence, and you'll get a 6 month ban unless you can show that it would cause exceptional hardship. It would be very difficult to show that taking away a licence you don;t have anyway would cause you or anyone else exceptional hardship, so you probably need to resign yourself to a ban. The effect of the ban is that (1) you can't drive at all, even on the terms of a provisional (2) you can't get a licence or sit a test until the ban has expired and (3) you can be sent to prison if you do drive while banned whereas you can only be fined of banned for driving without a licence or insurance.

 

One plus point is that a totting ban has the effect of wiping existing points from your licence, so if you do get a licence when it expires you'll be on no points Having checked, they won;t apply for the purposes of the New Drivers Act either, so your new licence won't get revoked unless you get 6 points within the first two years of passing your test.

 

However while the points won't count for totting purposes, it will still be a matter of fact that you were convicted of the offences and you'll still have to declare them to insurance companies for 5 years. I suspect that as a new driver with two IN10 convictions and a totting ban to your name you're likely to find that you can only get insurance at eye-watering prices, if at all, so you might find that in practice this will keep you off the road for much longer than 6 months.

 

As for reclaiming the car, the person who collects it must be insured to drive it. Usually this means they must be named on the policy - insurers don't generally allow people to collect seized cars on driving other vehicles cover. If it's registered in your name but you can't get insurance to drive it you'll have to send someone who is insured along with a letter authorising them to collect it on your behalf. (linky)

[Aretnap]

If you please guilty right from the start, including any police interviews, under UK law, you automatically get a "discount" off any punishment. If you start making excuses and they see you are lying, that would be waived.

You can't plead guilty at a police interview. The law allows for a discount (usually a third) if you plead guilty at the first opportunity - which means at the first court hearing, or by post in advance of the hearing. You still get it if you denied the offence or said nothing at a police interview, though telling a pack of lies might be seen as an aggravating factor, or in the extreme, perverting the course of justice.

 

However, unless you're in Scotland, the discount only applies to the fine, not to the points or ban.

[citizenkain]

this person is probably going to get a ban anyway as he was speeding at nearly twice the speed limit!,the court will certainly not be happy with all the other charges on top! best thing get yourself a bicycle for nipping about in!

[Aretnap]

No insurance (6-8 points) is likely to be seen as more serious than speeding (3-6 points, probably 6 in this case). But it's largely academic as either on its own would be enough to take him to 12 points.A good bicycle would be a sensible investment.

[renegadeimp]

You can't plead guilty at a police interview. The law allows for a discount (usually a third) if you plead guilty at the first opportunity - which means at the first court hearing, or by post in advance of the hearing. You still get it if you denied the offence or said nothing at a police interview, though telling a pack of lies might be seen as an aggravating factor, or in the extreme, perverting the course of justice.

 

However, unless you're in Scotland, the discount only applies to the fine, not to the points or ban.

 

You cant plead guilty, but you can acknowledge your guilt which they can state to the court. Not guaranteed but normally police would tell a court that guilt was already admitted.

[Nimrod205]

If you go to court and get 6 points on your provisional licence they will carry over. then when you pass your test, you will lose your new licence again because of the 6 point two year rule for new drivers.

 

Not so. The New Drivers Act only applies for the 2 years following the FIRST driving test.

[Aretnap]

You cant plead guilty, but you can acknowledge your guilt which they can state to the court. Not guaranteed but normally police would tell a court that guilt was already admitted.

That's true, but it has no effect on the discount for a guilty plea. It might help with a general line of mitigation ("this was entirely out of character, my client was completely mortified and immediately admitted what he had done") but that's quite separate to the discount or pleading guilty.

[scotgal68]

Ok so he goes to court having committed the same offence - provisional licence, no insurance and speeding, are you telling me he will be dealt with more leniently? I have had recent experience of a provisional licence holder being disqualified a second time for no insurance and running a red light!

[Nimrod205]

Nobody is suggesting that the OP will be dealt with more leniently. He has already had his licence revoked (by the DVLA) under the New Drivers Act (1995) and has 6 points on his provisional licence. Although he has (again) committed more than one offence, section 28 (4) of the Road Traffic Offenders Act will come in to play. Section 28(4) says that for offences committed ( but not necessarily sentenced ) on the same occasion, only the points attributable to the more serious offence are to be imposed. Which ever way you calculate it, he will accrue 12 points and a 6 month ban is the likely outcome.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Nimrod205
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