Advice needed regarding ESA medical - ** LEFT IN SUPPORT GROUP **

[liverbird37]

Have just won my ESA tribunal, but aware that this is going to be a long-term rollercoaster ride, so preparing ahead for the inevitable ESA50 arrival some time soon.

 

Am due to move from London up to South Yorkshire beginning of August. Am a bit nervous, as have a wonderful relationship with my current GP, and have been his patient for many years. I am worried about the impending change to a new GP, and how this will effect my ESA in the future. It's worrying the thought of going from somebody who knows me inside out, to somebody who knows nothing at all about my medical problems.

 

What's the best way of ensuring my new GP is fully aware of the medical issues that I have ? Do I need to provide medical letters and notes from my current GP ? or will this be done automatically ? I am also in the process of getting copies of all my Hospital notes, X-Rays and MRI scans but do I need them all, as are very extensive ? Should I keep them relevant to the date I initially claimed my ESA from ? I managed to win my Tribunal without any hospital/consultant info, purely on a GP letter, but need to be prepared in case new GP is not as understanding.

 

Would it be worth me paying £20 and asking my GP to write a letter outlining my condition ? So nervous about this move, purely because of how much of a star my GP has been.

[Nystagmite]

I've changed GPs and then changed back again. Both times, I had to fill in a form with my personal details and details of my old GP.

 

Personally, I would make an appointment with the new GP and explain your situation with ESA and your health problems.

[worried33]

I wish you the best of luck.

 

A good GP is invaluable.

 

In the past I have had a good GP, he wrote me a letter and that letter made my atos medical last 2 minutes and I got the points outright in one descriptor. A supportive GP makes a huge difference.

 

Now my GP surgery is all locums and I am lucky to see the same GP twice in a row, and its a nightmare, every visit I have to explain why I am there, and each GP does thigns their own way so I rarely follow one course of action for very long as they all disagree with each other.

 

I made a DLA claim over a month ago and found out the letter they sent to my GP to ask for evidence wasnt even returned. For people like ourselves I Feel a long term good GP is absolutely crucial. As he/she is the centre of everything, refferals etc.

[liverbird37]

Hi all, just a quick question. I have to send an ESA form off to Atoss for renewal of award. Was placed in support group on appeal to tribunal with 15pts for mobility. I have got a letter from my GP as my condition has worsened and have now got bilateral Sacroiliitis, possibly related to an auto immune disease.

 

My GP has done a fantastic letter explaining that mobility wise (due to knee injury) my situation hasn't improved and is not likely to for the forseable future which is great, but has failed to mention the Sacroiliitis which is incredibly debilitating. I have a copy of my MRI scan which confirms this diagnosis. Will this be enough or should I get my GP to amend the letter he has done for me ? I have included copies of the tribunal report too, so even without the new added problems of the Sacroiliitis, they can see that my situation has indeed not got any better.

 

This is my first renewal so not sure how to approach it. Am fully expectant though that I will be sent for yet another medical and be given the dreaded zero points once again. I am due to see a Rheumatologist in November to investigate the cause of the sacroiliitis and have put all of this on the form. Just not sure if the scan report on it's own is enough. Most grateful for any help or advice you can offer.

[liverbird37]

Am in desperate need of help. Sent ESA form off by special delivery because it contained lots of medical info. Tracking says still being processed.

 

Called RM who are at a loss as to where it is. My deadline to get form in is today. Had RM delivered it on time, it would have been there several days ago. RM are trying to locate it.

 

Called ATOS to explain and it was noted on computer, but she told me I had to inform DWP as there was nothing they could do to help or advise.

 

Called DWP to see if they could extend deadline because of RMs error, but was told they could not do this and that the original deadline must stand.

 

So now I'm up the creek. The deadline is today, TM don't know where letter is and neither ATOS or the DWP can do anything to help, which means my money will be stopped. I am furious as to how this is fair. I have no idea what to do now as can't afford to have to lose money and start claim all over again.

[worried33]

the way I see it if the DWP pushed this to appeal you would get an easy win.

 

You have proof beyond reasonable doubt of what happened, the tracking system and calls to the DWP and ATOS to try and come to a resolution which they rejected.

 

Sadly tho if this does goto appeal I think you wont get paid whilst you wait but I do see this as an easy win.

 

What to do now?

 

Send a new form, today. Recorded.

 

Attach a latter explaining why its late (royalmail lost it).

 

If you lucky they will accept it late. If not then appeal.

 

To give you hope I appealed a postal issue and the DWP did back down at the last minute without tribunal.

[**Margaret**]

:liverbird37:

 

To add to the previous advice; there's two possible senarios here:

 

If you're claiming for mental health issues Atos may simply ignore the apparent failure to return the questionnaire and in due course invite you for a face to face assessment. Take copies of the lost info, including a copy ESA50, with you and send a duplicate set to your benefit delivery centre with a covering letter.

 

More likely, you'll receive a letter from Jobcentreplus asking why you failed to return the questionnaire. Reply to the letter and include;

 

Copy ESA50 giving the reason for the late return on page 19. (Far from unknown for letters and papers to get separated.)

Copies of your medical evidence.

Evidence (proof of posting and print off of the tracking page) of Royal Mail's shenanigans.

Send recorded and keep copies for yourself.

 

As with :worried33: decision makers usually accept problems with Royal Mail (unless it's the nth time) as good cause for failure to return a questionnaire.

 

Remember to claim a refund from Royal Mail.

 

Good luck, Margaret.

[liverbird37]

Well, I phoned back DWP, and the lady took the tracking number and ref number from RM explaining the delay and that the letter had indeed been signed for on the 17th.

 

She was a attempting to be helpful, but stressed that claimants have to allow 5 days processing before the end date that they gave on the renewal form. Was unaware of that. Thought that so long as it was in by last day you were fine. She said that she was hoping the numbers I gave her would be enough.

 

Well it's been a short while since and haven't heard a thing off either the DWP or Atos....yet. I know the form was received and have a signature. Was not aware that all mail goes to a sorting office to be opened by RM and is then passed on to Atos. I presumed it went straight to Atos. Appears not according to bloke I spoke to from RM.

Not sure what's going on now, but as I'm still getting paid, am reluctant to ask, for fear of rocking the boat so to speak.

 

Am hoping they will have had enough evidence to just leave me in support group as I've been diagnosed with a new condition that I didn't have at Tribunal. I guess time will tell, but still expecting the dreaded medical form to come through the post any day.

 

On the plus side though, have just done my DLA renewal, and sent tribunal report off with it as have heard a few stories about how the ESA medical report can effect DLA claims, and am pleased to say, my botched so called medical had no bearing. Got my high rate mobility renewed and they have awarded me middle rate care too until 2015. Maybe it paid to add tribunal report.

[45002]

Well, I phoned back DWP, and the lady took the tracking number and ref number from RM explaining the delay and that the letter had indeed been signed for on the 17th.

 

She was a attempting to be helpful, but stressed that claimants have to allow 5 days processing before the end date that they gave on the renewal form. Was unaware of that. Thought that so long as it was in by last day you were fine. She said that she was hoping the numbers I gave her would be enough.

 

Well it's been a short while since and haven't heard a thing off either the DWP or Atos....yet. I know the form was received and have a signature. Was not aware that all mail goes to a sorting office to be opened by RM and is then passed on to Atos. I presumed it went straight to Atos. Appears not according to bloke I spoke to from RM.

Not sure what's going on now, but as I'm still getting paid, am reluctant to ask, for fear of rocking the boat so to speak.

 

Am hoping they will have had enough evidence to just leave me in support group as I've been diagnosed with a new condition that I didn't have at Tribunal. I guess time will tell, but still expecting the dreaded medical form to come through the post any day.

 

On the plus side though, have just done my DLA renewal, and sent tribunal report off with it as have heard a few stories about how the ESA medical report can effect DLA claims, and am pleased to say, my botched so called medical had no bearing. Got my high rate mobility renewed and they have awarded me middle rate care too until 2015. Maybe it paid to add tribunal report.

 

You should read this regarding DLA http://www.dwp.gov.uk/policy/disability/personal-independence-payment/

 

Existing claimants

 

There is no automatic transfer from Disability Living Allowance (DLA) to Personal Independence Payment. Between October 2013 and March 2016 we will write to claimants already getting DLA to invite them to make a claim for Personal Independence Payment. They will be individually assessed against the new entitlement criteria.

[liverbird37]

I am due to undergo another ESA assessment in a week. I had hoped to get a home visit, but unfortunately my GP is away, and medical was sprung on me, with not much notice. They will not change either, as it's being recorded.

 

I need a bit of advice, and apologise in advance if my questions seem a bit silly, but am a bit worried about how i'm going to manage physically. Unfortunately, I do not have anybody able to attend with me on the day, hence the strange questions.

 

I need help when raising from a sitting position. Can I ask the assessor to help me with this ? Also, I am unable to sit without severe pain. Would I be allowed to lie across a couple of chairs instead. Am in quite a bad way at the moment, and need a fair bit of physical assistance. Can the assessor help me with the above mentioned issues, as well as things like attempting to get on the couch ? Have no idea how i'm going to do that. Can I refuse if it's likely to cause increased pain, or risk to my health ?

 

I would be so grateful for any help. I am currently in the support group, after tribunal win. Dreading going through all of this again. I can barely function due to the morphine I am on. Already have my GL24 form in preparation for yet another zero points. Many thanks in advance.

[RaeUK]

From what you have said, it would be pretty obvious to anyone at the assessment that you are a person in great difficulty. Regardless of what we may think of those who are employed by ATOS, I would sincerely hope that they will render you every possible assistance.

When you get there don't be shy. Make sure you let the receptionist know of your problems and the help you will need. Whilst it may do little good, I'd be inclined to phone ATOS and let them know you have no-one to accompany you and that you will need their help on arrival. You never know, the message may get through.

I'm guessing from your username that the chances of you being anywhere within striking distance of West Dorset are somewhere between none and not at all. Otherwise I would happily volunteer to escort you on the day and assist as best I could ...

[dibdabable]

Hi Liverbird. First off why did they say you couldn't have a home visit? Second are you sure there's absolutely no one who can go with you. How are you getting there, if sitting is so painful. How does the morphine affect your abilities to walk and balance safely. Can you see, that unless you are very clear about how you got there and what the journey was like for you, they will have already assumed a lot about you and your abilities before you even get in the door.

 

To try and answer some of your questions which aren't silly, if you don't know, you ask. I think it's highly unlikely you will be able to lie across two chairs. I also think it would be highly unlikely that any assessor would help you up, one they are probably not covered to do so, two the whole point of the exercise is to see what you can do yourself.

If your unable to sit I'm very concerned about how you will cope in the waiting room, you could be there for a while. You must not sit there and bear it, make a nuisance of yourself if necessary if it's impossible for you to sit, stand and keep asking when you'll be going in because of the pain you're in. If you don't say anything if you sit there and pretend you're okay, they will have assessed you a shaving been able to travel and sit for long periods.

It's really good you've had the foresight to get it recorded. I know they say they can't change it that's probably not strictly true I believe they can alter an appt and give you up to two alternative appts, but anyway it's done now.

 

The recording is a great idea, but if there was anyway you could also covertly record your assessment too not anywhere on your person, as you may have a medical, whilst it's not illegal to record yourself some assessors will ask you to stop recording and if you refuse may terminate the interview.

 

As regards refusing to do things, one good thing about the recording is that if for example you're asked to get on a couch and you cannot do it, then, you say in a good clear voice I'm not able to do that without help because of the pain. It is your function they are looking at. It's up to you if you want to make an attempt, but always state the reason you are not able to do something, the assessors are a little fond of saying patient refused to perform this activity without writing why.

I often hear people say always describe your worst day. I often advise people against this because some people's worse day may only happen twice a week. If your situation is there for the majority of the time and if they ask what you can do 'cos that's what they're interested in, then say for the majority of the time I cannot perform that task, because of pain,stiffness breathlessness, whatever it is and do not add anything else. Even if they try and get you to say," so you can do it some of the time" literally repeat what you've said, "for the majority of the time etc etc". Don't worry if 2/7 days you are able it's what is true for the majority of the time, so don't let them push you.

 

I am hoping from what you've described that it will be obvious to the assessor that you are a genuine case and given the obvious pain you're in will keep things brief. I don't know what else to suggest. I realise your GP is away but after you've had your medical and hopefully your Gp has returned he might think it correct to sign one oft these letters basically stating that you should be exempt on the grounds below known as clause 29 and 35. About a third of the way down there are two letter templates. One from you and one from your GP if he considers you fit this description. This would be really good to have ready in case you need to Appeal and could be sent when your Appeal goes back for reconsideration. Also have you got a copy of the Appeal you already won? If so that's also worth sending with any Appeal.

http://www.blacktrianglecampaign.org/2012/11/16/important-how-to-gain-exemption-from-dwpatos-fit-for-work-wrag-decisions-by-applying-esa-regulations-29-and-35-new-campaign-by-black-triangle-dpac/

 

 

Anyway we're jumping ahead a bit I'm more concrened with how you're going to get there let alone sit there. Hope this has been of some help and doesn't sound too negative. Come back if there's more anyone can do I'm sure others will be along to offer more support.

[liverbird37]

Thank you so very much to you both for taking the time you have to help me. Rae, your offer to help, blew me away. Am in East London. The assessment centre is only a short drive away thankfully. Have ordered a black cab to take me and bring me back. They seem much more roomy than the normal cabbie cars.

 

I feel a bit more relaxed about things now, after having read your comments. I guess I will have to take things as they come, and try not to be too brave like at my last assessment. I have got all my info from last tribunal, as have Atos. Am extremely annoyed they have pulled me in again, as they know my situation has got much worse, and am now on stronger meds. All medical info was sent in too. Wondering if they even bothered to read the ESA50 I sent to them back in October. I half expected to be left alone. No such luck.

I won my last tribunal based on my walking issues alone. Was looking into the possibility of getting a wheelchair, but this has been ditched due to having been diagnosed a couple of months ago with an agressive and fast progressing form of Ankylosing Spondylitis.

 

The sacroiliitis is agony, and the dexamethasone injections aren't helping. Had an MRI done last month on my back and lungs/ heart to evaluate my breathlessness and arrythmia issues. It's hit me like a brick wall. Feeling like 90 not 39

 

Am due to go back in may for scan results. Am hoping they will be able to start me on the TNF meds, so I then only have my knee and mobility issues to deal with. At times, it feels just too much to have to deal with.

 

Thank you both once again so much for your kindness. Will go there and they will just have to deal with me in whatever state I find myself that day. I will ask for help if necessary. I will make sure I send a GP letter request for home visit next time. I thought that I just had to request it on the ESA50. Fingers crossed, all the evidence I have sent them, will mean I should hopefully have a quick medical.

[dibdabable]

I know life can feel like that I was 37 at the time I became ill, I am having problems with my lower back with a couple of herniated discs and have always had the sacro/iliac problems with pain etc, so I do sympathise. On the day of your assessment, make sure the taxi takes you as near to the door as possible, if you have to half lie across the back seat , then tell the assessor that too.

One thing I can't stress enough is forget about your diagnoses on the day as you say they have all that and they've still called you in, just concentrate on making sure they are aware of how it affects your ability to do. The sitting issue alone should get you into the Support Group, but it's down to you to make your case.

 

If it's any consolation I'm 51 now and although I have developed other problems,meaning I have never been able to go back to work, there is a point of acceptance. That doesn't mean giving in and throwing in the towel, more accepting, you have what you have and I found once I got to that stage, psychologically I was able to move forward, instead of what I had been doing and trying desperatley to carry on as if I wasn't ill and could still do the things I once did. Somehow things seemed better once I had got to this stage and I didn't feel quite so isolated and guilty for not being able to do the things with my children I had once done. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that whilst it can all seem like too much sometimes, you will cope because you have to really.

 

Best of luck and let us know how it goes.

[**Margaret**]

:liverbird37:

 

Assuming you've not already collected an 'unable to attend' for this assessment (appointments rescheduled by Atos while they find an audio recorder don't count) they're using the recording issue to make life easier for themselves. Guidance is that a claimant can reschedule an appointment once. Doesn't say anything about exceptions for recorded appointments. Isn't for me to say what you should do but here's a question and a few facts to help you make an informed decision.

 

'appointments may be deferred for up to four weeks from the date of request, for any circumstance, ......'

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/justifcation_of_4_week_deferment#incoming-365376

 

Do you normally attend medical appointments alone or go shopping by yourself? If not, asking for a time when someone can accompany you to Atos is a valid reason to change the appointment.

 

Asking for time to seek your doctor's opinion on a home visit, or getting Atos to fund the taxi if you can't use public transport, is another valid reason for deferring the appointment. They'll only pay if it's agreed in advance.

 

Beyond holding a door open I've never known a pinocchio offer physical assistance. Occasionally they ask admin staff to help. Know someone who spent an entire interview lying on the couch but pinocchio took some persuading from claimant and chaperone.

Very good idea from :RaeUK: to warn the assessment centre about what help you'll need. Use the phone number on the reverse of your appointment letter. (Don't be fobbed off with 08002 888777. It's their ever unhelpful desk in Cardiff so the call handler won't have a clue whether there'll be any extra help available.)

 

 

Should you feel that trying to keep the appointment is the least stressful option, fine, go for it. After you've checked with the assessment centre, as late as possible before the time of your appointment, that there's an audio recorder available. Alternatively, if you simply can't manage by yourself cos of your condition (remember, pinocchio'll make all sorts of assumptions that you can travel unaccompanied, sit at a desk, etcetera) you've at least two bona fide reasons to take advantage of the four week concession.

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

Edited April 6, 2013 by **Margaret**

[dibdabable]

Just wondering of you'd been yet and if so what happened. Hope it all went well.

[RaeUK]

^^^ ditto ...

[liverbird37]

Hi, am so sorry have not updated, have not been online as been a bit sick. I was due to go this week for assessment, but for some reason, they have changed the date to Monday 15th.

 

I have checked the assessment centre to make sure it's still being recorded and they state it is. They also gave me a number for the centre who organise getting the recording equipment to the centres, just to confirm again, that it is still being recorded, and was assured it still was. Am going to get a recording device as you recommended, just in case.

 

Am happy to say that my daughter is going to come with me too. Am a bit upset it means her missing a day of college, but they have said they will help her get back on track with any work missed. Am not looking forward to this at all. I know they will lie again, and give me the dreaded zero pts again.

 

I thought I would be passed on my form alone this time. At last assessment, I only had mobility issues due to knee problems. This alone got me into the support group at tribunal. Several months later, and my health is significantly worse, with the Ankylosing Spondylitis related problems, and move to morphine and dexamethasone. I thought they would appreciate that there had been a significant decline and leave me be.

 

My appt is at 11.05, so will post back on how things go. I also phoned centre and asked that two armless chairs be made available to me on day of test. Lets see if they accomodate this request.

 

Thank you so much for your thoughts. It's helping to make things just a little more bareable.

[Guest]

Good Luck for the 15th, and am glad that your daughter is going with you. A recorded assessment and a witness, is the best you can do. As has already been said, don't be shy when waiting, if your in pain then tell them, your daughter could speak to the reception staff about this also.

 

I am not far from East London, and had my assessment, well the last two at Romford.

 

I fully intend to ask/insist for a recorded assessment if I am called in again, and will also record covertly as well, just for good measure. I have to say its got to be the best and fair way as there surely then is no room for lies as to what was said etc. only other thing I can think of is make the assessor listen, don't be rushed or fobbed off, finish your sentences and don't be rushed onto the next tick box question. Having your daughter there will help. I will take mine too if I get called in again in the future.

[RaeUK]

I am so glad you have someone to go with you. Good luck m'dear.

[dibdabable]

That's really good news you have support, it does make a difference. Before you go just read back through everything people have said here, very important as said to say very clearly when and why you can't do something, if they ask you to perform something physically, so they can't suggest you just simply refused and of course not being stoical, if you're not coping.

As regards the chairs, when you arrive at reception, tell them what you requested, so that they are forewarned, once you're in the room if they haven't provided the two chairs for you and an additional one for your daughter, just say, oh well I'll wait for you to get them. You're going to have to be the strongest and most determined you have ever been in order to remain in charge on the day, it's your assessment not theirs, it should therefore be all down to you how this goes keep that in mind.

 

I'll be thinking of you and send you lots of hugs and support. It's a very short time in the great scheme of things.

[liverbird37]

Well, received a call today from Atos, regarding my request, and absolute need for two armless chairs to be made available for Monday's WCA.

 

It appears that they are unable to do this, as the requirement for the WCA is that the chairs provided must have arms. As a result, they have cancelled Monday's appointment. They have booked another appointment for May 19th in order to keep my claim live, and to give me time to fax a home request letter from GP.

 

They have said it's against health & safety regs to provide armless chairs lol....or should that read harmless. There are apparently also concerns that I will be left on second floor to sizzle, should a fire break out. Have to say that the gentleman I spoke to couldn't have been more helpful. There is still a possibility they may refuse GP's request, but he told me to call back and speak to him again if that happens, and he will try to see if there is anything else he could do.

 

Have to say I did laugh at being labelled a possible health and safety risk, especially as I was anticipating another zero pts and fit for work decision. What a palaver this request has caused. May be a blessing in disguise.

 

For now though, I have a very temporary stay of execution.

[Guest]

kind of says it all really...how would you get on in a place of work. Good for you though that at least the GP can now do a letter, and I will watch with interest how you get on.

[dibdabable]

I realise it may be disconcerting having these changes but I can only see this as in your favour. It seems absolute nonsense though that they can't provide armless chairs cos of health and safety, how ridiculous but they don't mind sending you back to work where you'd be a liability.

 

Anyway, it's all good and even better that they're the ones who are doing the cancelling. Just remember to check that they will still be recordning it so that doesn't get overlooked. Anyway I really hope you get the home visit. Well done and it always amazes me how much stronger people sound after just getting a llittle support from people on here, than when they first posted!. Have a little down time and forget it for a while now if you can.

[RaeUK]

Oh my goodness, that is so hilarious liverbird. They can't provide armless chairs? Well, they could ask their ATOS assessment centre in Weymouth to send some over as they have several! But, as said, a home visit will be much better for you. And easier for covert recording. Best wishes.