British Scottish Gas Forced PPM installation

[BSG customer]

Morning all,

Background: I've been partaking in a payment plan for the last 18 months in order to clear an old outstanding electric bill that has followed me from a previous address some years ago. This plan has been paid on time on a 2 week basis since the beginning - however 8 weeks ago BSG contacted me to advise that they were doubling the payments which takes them well beyond my means.

I explained that I couldn't possibly meet the agreement and only just managed the current arrangement.

The answer from BSG was a simple "You don't have any choice, we need to double the current arrangements and there is no other options available to you"

 

Circs: I am currently listed as a vunerable customer due to medical conditions requiring heart and oxygen medical equipment to be installed in the address and available as life support 24/7. Meaning I also have a very limited income.

BSG have an awareness of this and verbally confirmed awareness during the above conversation.

 

Today: In the early hours I found a team of 6 - yes eight people inside my home after virtually destroying the lock mech on my front door whilst I was sleeping. There were 2 men who suggested they were BSG bailiffs but refused to disclose registrations or proof of such, a dog handler with a battered old unmarked vehicle outside, 2 BSG uniformed employees, and 2 suited fella's with BSG manager identity cards stood at the front door.

Now on coming into the door "They said they had knocked for a minute or two", they would of been confronted by several medical machines and several notices which give the warning 'This equipment must not be disconnected'.

By the time I had got downstairs I found that the electricity had been disconnected - my medical equipment had therefore been shut down and now inoperable, and the "bailiff" handed me a letter that said BSG intended obtaining a warrant to fit a PPM at the address on the 10/12/12. The letter was dated 7/12/12.

 

The people in my home were less than helpful, and not at all fussed that they had disconnected life support machines ignoring the clear signage. Nor that a medical team needed to now be called to reset the equipment.

Also the new meter has been installed inside the property where the original one was, but in a very poor manner, with the live cables (Red and Black) coming from the main fuse (Also left exposed) trailing some 10 inches below the meter and across to the fuse box... in such a manner that my grandchildren and dog will be able to pull on them easily.

 

Advice please??

Also who do I need to get in touch with to make a formal complaint about the dangerous meter installation - I've never seen this before nor had to deal with such things. However this seems to be a blatant dangerous situation, and BSG on the phone helpline are stating that its the only way as I cant pay the new arrangement... and they never ever leave a meter in a dangerous manner or disconnect medical equipment.

 

My answer is simple - the equipment is 240v powered and MUST be connected to a live socket - it does not have any backup battery or power source.

 

Where do we go from here?

[45002]

Morning all,

Background: I've been partaking in a payment plan for the last 18 months in order to clear an old outstanding electric bill that has followed me from a previous address some years ago. This plan has been paid on time on a 2 week basis since the beginning - however 8 weeks ago BSG contacted me to advise that they were doubling the payments which takes them well beyond my means.

I explained that I couldn't possibly meet the agreement and only just managed the current arrangement.

The answer from BSG was a simple "You don't have any choice, we need to double the current arrangements and there is no other options available to you"

 

Circs: I am currently listed as a vunerable customer due to medical conditions requiring heart and oxygen medical equipment to be installed in the address and available as life support 24/7. Meaning I also have a very limited income.

BSG have an awareness of this and verbally confirmed awareness during the above conversation.

 

Today: In the early hours I found a team of 6 - yes eight people inside my home after virtually destroying the lock mech on my front door whilst I was sleeping. There were 2 men who suggested they were BSG bailiffs but refused to disclose registrations or proof of such, a dog handler with a battered old unmarked vehicle outside, 2 BSG uniformed employees, and 2 suited fella's with BSG manager identity cards stood at the front door.

Now on coming into the door "They said they had knocked for a minute or two", they would of been confronted by several medical machines and several notices which give the warning 'This equipment must not be disconnected'.

By the time I had got downstairs I found that the electricity had been disconnected - my medical equipment had therefore been shut down and now inoperable, and the "bailiff" handed me a letter that said BSG intended obtaining a warrant to fit a PPM at the address on the 10/12/12. The letter was dated 7/12/12.

 

The people in my home were less than helpful, and not at all fussed that they had disconnected life support machines ignoring the clear signage. Nor that a medical team needed to now be called to reset the equipment.

Also the new meter has been installed inside the property where the original one was, but in a very poor manner, with the live cables (Red and Black) coming from the main fuse (Also left exposed) trailing some 10 inches below the meter and across to the fuse box... in such a manner that my grandchildren and dog will be able to pull on them easily.

 

Advice please??

Also who do I need to get in touch with to make a formal complaint about the dangerous meter installation - I've never seen this before nor had to deal with such things. However this seems to be a blatant dangerous situation, and BSG on the phone helpline are stating that its the only way as I cant pay the new arrangement... and they never ever leave a meter in a dangerous manner or disconnect medical equipment.

 

My answer is simple - the equipment is 240v powered and MUST be connected to a live socket - it does not have any backup battery or power source.

 

Where do we go from here?

 

 

 

 

So British gas have fitted a per-payment meter with a warrant from a magistrate court, i find it hard to believe they would leave a meter in a dangerous state !

 

You must have know about this in advance they where coming to fit per-payment meter,Several letters would have been sent to the account holder ?

 

How much is the debt out standing.

 

Are you receiving any Benefits at all ?

 

You say you have a pre existing medical condition,then need to contact CAB or a solicitor ASAP for there advice on where you stand legally as it's almost in possible getting a pre-payment meter removed while there exists a Debt...

Edited December 13, 2012 by 45002

[BSG customer]

So, I thought I'd do a follow up to this post, it's now a few weeks later on from the install.

 

BG refused to believe that the installation team would leave a meter in a dangerous condition and didn't want to attend the property to check it, after more than a few calls, and some intervention, I had a visit from BG accompanied by a supervisor from National Grid.

The supply was isolated immediately by NG guy, who on first glance at the meter expressed concern. The BG guy disputed that they would have done that, and complained that I must have cut and exposed the ends of two high voltage cables myself.

The NG guy instructed BG guy to fix the installation there and then, during the repairs and some discussions with NG I provided the photo's taken during the meter installation as evidence of the visit and the damage caused to both my front door and the meter area, he accepted that there was a serious issue with the competence shown during the meter install and he intended taking the matter back to BG.

The outcome so far... as I thought was right... the forced installation left 2 incoming cables exposed, wires trailing below the meter at approx 10 inches, and to add to the discovery it seems that when cutting out and bypassing what the BG people thought was an "old isolator" it appears they left no way of isolating the power supply to the property in an emergency.

My fuse box does not have any isolator in built or attached, it's always been seperate due to the age of the property. NG confirm that the installation guy has wired the meter directly to the circuits without any isolator in line and further work is required to bring the install up to standard and make it compliant. He says that this is going to be at my expense... not likely!!

As for the meter itself, I've had to ask BG to take me to court so I can ask the judge to enforce a proper collection rate, BG refuse to negotiate the rate of collection and therefore I'm looking at self disconnection and a way around things. Can't pay amounts that I simply don't have and can't make appear no matter how I manipulate my budget

[45002]

So, I thought I'd do a follow up to this post, it's now a few weeks later on from the install.

 

BG refused to believe that the installation team would leave a meter in a dangerous condition and didn't want to attend the property to check it, after more than a few calls, and some intervention, I had a visit from BG accompanied by a supervisor from National Grid.

 

The supply was isolated immediately by NG guy, who on first glance at the meter expressed concern. The BG guy disputed that they would have done that, and complained that I must have cut and exposed the ends of two high voltage cables myself.

The NG guy instructed BG guy to fix the installation there and then, during the repairs and some discussions with NG I provided the photo's taken during the meter installation as evidence of the visit and the damage caused to both my front door and the meter area, he accepted that there was a serious issue with the competence shown during the meter install and he intended taking the matter back to BG.

 

The outcome so far... as I thought was right... the forced installation left 2 incoming cables exposed, wires trailing below the meter at approx 10 inches, and to add to the discovery it seems that when cutting out and bypassing what the BG people thought was an "old isolator" it appears they left no way of isolating the power supply to the property in an emergency.

 

My fuse box does not have any isolator in built or attached, it's always been seperate due to the age of the property. NG confirm that the installation guy has wired the meter directly to the circuits without any isolator in line and further work is required to bring the install up to standard and make it compliant. He says that this is going to be at my expense... not likely!!

 

As for the meter itself, I've had to ask BG to take me to court so I can ask the judge to enforce a proper collection rate, BG refuse to negotiate the rate of collection and therefore I'm looking at self disconnection and a way around things. Can't pay amounts that I simply don't have and can't make appear no matter how I manipulate my budget

 

 

 

 

So how much is the actual arrears for and how much is the pre-payment meter set to recovery the arrears,are you in receipt of any type of benefits or working ?

Edited January 8, 2013 by 45002

[BSG customer]

In the nicest possible terms 45002, I don't know you from adam, and I certainly won't be discussing the amounts involved with you on this forum or elsewhere.

 

The original post was seeking advice, and I don't see how the amount involved is going to assist in the general advice sought here??

The recovery charge is set at £35 p/week which I am told is standard by the British Gas Helpline, and not working, on minimum benefit

[biggeorge]

Personally I hate all energy suppliers and their threats and by the sounds of this you have been had.

That amount of £35 per week for recovery is way over the top, I was with Npower who took £3.55 per week each

for my gas and electric arrears and this is all they could take as I am currently on benefits.

 

You really need to check out how much you should be paying if on benefits as that amount seems extremely high if its just for the arrears on the account, Or does that £35 cover weekly usage as well.

I would contact the social and check what the maximum amount is for arrears, I think this depends on what your benefits are and once you have that information contact BSG and get them to come and change the meter tariff to a lower tariff if your been over charged.

 

With some luck I managed to change from Npower just before Xmas after threatening me with a pp meter and bypassing sending me a bill just sent me to the collections department with all the threats of pp meter, thank god M&S let me switch to them.

Now I have all the power and Npower will take what I say I can afford to pay them, They can no longer threaten me with a pp meter.

Was very strange to be honest as I owe quite a bit for gas & electricity £1700 and although Npower originally refused to let me switch it still happened and I got all the letters, goodbye from Npower and welcome from M&S.

 

Anyone know what the legal position would be if the pp meter was replaced with a regular meter, I have a a friend who is an electrician and he was going to remove the meter for me if Npower carried out there threats.

 

George

[BSG customer]

Hello George,

Been down that line already, and getting told by everyone with authority, that there is no actual upper limit on what BG can dictate as the repayment rate.

The figure of £35 is for debt recovery only, and any usage is then on top of that. The reason they keep giving me, is they want the outstanding repaid in less than 12 months.

Doesn't help I guess that when they install these things, they are on a single tariff rate. Previously I could charge the medical equip thru the night on a lower tariff rate, and therefore use

less electric during the daylight hours.

I have noticed that during all this mayhem, BG don't seem to have any understanding of how Life Support Machinery works - especially cardiac protection devices and oxygen supplies.

When I attempted to change to a supplier who understood the demands created on usage by my equipment, it was blocked by BG at the first hurdle...sounds like you got lucky being able to change in time!

[biggeorge]

Hi BSG Customer,

If you are receiving benefits then those payments are for you to live on and that amount of £35 is too much for recovery of arrears.

When I was going through my troubles with N power I was informed that £3.55 was the maximum that could be taken from my JSA

for arrears on my gas and electricity, total £7.10 per week.

I will see if I can find the paperwork from the Social with this detailed for you so you can try and get it reduced.

 

Personally I see this as BSG think they can set a tariff that THEY want and get away with it, I would not let them get away with it.

 

1: You can call round the benefits agencies to see if you can get a concrete answer to the maximum allowed for arrears then take on BSG with

the information.

2: Contact BSG and call their bluff, Explain that the amount of £35 per week alone on arrears is too much and unless they agree to reduce it you

will turn off the supply and they will get nothing. This is only a bluff unless you can get a generator sorted to help with the medical equipment.

3: See if you can find some alternative accommodation for a short while, BSG will soon back down when they are not receiving any payments.

Hope you get it sorted and get that ridiculous amount reduced to something more manageable.

 

George

Edited January 8, 2013 by citizenB

[45002]

In the nicest possible terms 45002, I don't know you from adam, and I certainly won't be discussing the amounts involved with you on this forum or elsewhere.

 

The original post was seeking advice, and I don't see how the amount involved is going to assist in the general advice sought here??

The recovery charge is set at £35 p/week which I am told is standard by the British Gas Helpline, and not working, on minimum benefit

 

I wasn't asking for your personal life history name and address and so on,I was just asking for figure's.

 

I personal find your story just that a story !

 

Hello George,

 

Been down that line already, and getting told by everyone with authority, that there is no actual upper limit on what BG can dictate as the repayment rate.

 

The figure of £35 is for debt recovery only, and any usage is then on top of that. The reason they keep giving me, is they want the outstanding repaid in less than 12 months.

 

Doesn't help I guess that when they install these things, they are on a single tariff rate. Previously I could charge the medical equip thru the night on a lower tariff rate, and therefore use

less electric during the daylight hours.

 

I have noticed that during all this mayhem, BG don't seem to have any understanding of how Life Support Machinery works - especially cardiac protection devices and oxygen supplies.

 

When I attempted to change to a supplier who understood the demands created on usage by my equipment, it was blocked by BG at the first hurdle ...sounds like you got lucky being able to change in time!

 

Must be a very Large debt then !

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/consumer_e/consumer_energy_and_water_supply_e/consumer_energy_supply_e/problems_switching_energy_suppliers/you_cant_switch_energy_supplier_because_of_a_debt.htm

 

You clearly been able to keep your "Life support" going somehow since you 1st posted on CAG on 13th December 2012 12:19 until posted again today 8th January 2013 11:02. All this on a pre-payment meter ....

 

Good luck with paying off the Arrears ?

Edited January 8, 2013 by 45002

[citizenB]

BSGcustomer - have you spoken to CAB, apparently they have information regarding vulnerable people where utility arrears are concerned.

[Bubbl3]

I have prepayment meters because of arrears but im with npower I only pay £4 a week electric & £3 a week gas, when they installed them they asked how much I could afford I told them I was on benefits and that's what they chose to set the repayment at.

 

I don't know if you would qualify or not but might be worth looking into if you can get help with the arrears from an energy trust.

[45002]

Personally I hate all energy suppliers and their threats and by the sounds of this you have been had.

 

Think everyone would agree with you on that

 

Anyone know what the legal position would be if the pp meter was replaced with a regular meter, I have a a friend who is an electrician and he was going to remove the meter for me if Npower carried out there threats.

 

George

 

Yes,you and your friend will end up been arrested

 

Prosecuted for inferring with a electric supply,ending up with fines or Prison or both....

 

Plus at Criminal record....

 

And No electric supply at All ....

Edited January 8, 2013 by 45002

[BSG customer]

I wasn't asking for your personal life history name and address and so on,I was just asking for figure's.

 

I personal find your story just that a story !

 

 

 

Must be a very Large debt then !

 

 

You clearly been able to keep your "Life support" going somehow since you 1st posted on CAG on 13th December 2012 12:19 until posted again today 8th January 2013 11:02. All this on a pre-payment meter ....

 

Good luck with paying off the Arrears ?

 

Awww, thanks for keeping an eye on me... can you let me know if I don't manage to post for a while? (Just in case the LS failed due to the meter issues)

Ps...it'll only kick in if the heart kicks out ;-).... however it requires power 24/7 just in case, telepathy didn't work too well last time

 

Tried CAB CB, waiting on the information they intend posting, along with details of the BG Energy Trust. Already made the online application as soon as I heard about it.

 

Bubbl.. seems all suppliers offer a lower repayment rate than BG, done some figures and some searching this afto... at the rate given, If I keep usage to a minimum the debt would clear in less than 10 weeks... problem is finding that level of payment whilst knowing that the equipment will not accept my desire for a minimum usage.

Neighbour has a great idea.. run the equipment from a lamp post whilst clearing the debt lol