VF & Small Claims

[BankFodder]

Ok.

On the original late payments, they are correct in marking your credit file.

 

However, the rest seems to be wrong.

 

 

Your mistakes, of course, have been to do everything on the phone and not record the calls. As a Cagger of 2009, you should know better.

 

Your second mistake is to have gone along with it for so long when it could have been sorted out ages ago using the very same steps which you will have to go through now to sort it out.

 

Your third mistake is to have withheld payment before it was all sorted out in the innocent belief that this would be so significant to VF that they would stop in their tracks and decide to spend time talking with you in order to sort out this terrible mess. Lots of people do this and they imagine that the prospect of losing a few quid will bring the company shuddering to a stop to have some cogent dialogue. Bless.

 

Your fourth mistake is to have imagined that the FOS would provide any kind of meaningful solution. They have awarded you bonbons.

 

You are on your way to making a fifth mistake - which is to imagine that if Vodafone comply with the FOS requirements, that this will solve the problems.

It won't. There is nothing there which will remove the default.

 

 

The key here is the cancellation fee which they have levied and also that they are bound to operate their contract lawfully.

 

You can enforce the FOS decision in the courts by using a procedure under the Financial Service and Markets Act 2000. Here is some info

However, if you enforce it, I think that you will be taken to have given up any other rights.

On the basis that they haven't really provided any solutions, I would suggest that you reject the FOS decision.

 

For me, the issue is their cancellation charge.

Loads of companies impose huge cancellation charges and they are almost always unlawful. Charges for cancellation should not exceed the administrative costs caused by the cancellation.

This is basic contract law - unlawful penalties.

It is also contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regs. 1999. Have a look at sch.2 of the regs for a non-exhaustive list of example of unfair terms.

 

 

Do I gather that it was Vodafone which terminated the contract - not you? If so, their actions are even more unlawful.

Of course you would expect the FOS to know all of this, wouldn't you - but the FOS is almost always half-hearted in their approach and limp-wristed in their awards.

 

From what you say, I would say that VF have levied unlawful cancellation charges, and are also in breach of contract for refusing to provide you with any explanation as to how they have been calculated.

They are also in breach of contract by defaulting your account in respect of unlawful charges.

I would say that on this basis they are probably also in breach of the DPA as they have effectively not processed your data lawfully because they have reported as lawful a debt which is actually unlawful.

 

By the way, your sixth and seventh mistakes were to repay the money and also to imagine that it would made any difference.

You also imagined that Vodafone would be interested in carrying on any meaningful dialogue with you - so that is eight mistakes.

Shame on you.

 

If you want to sort this out then I would start to shape up and stop faffing about.

 

Write to VF and tell them that you are rejecting the FOS decision.

Say that you want the calculation but that in the absence of it, you assume that their charges were unlawful and that all actions flowing from that are also unlawful.

 

Tell them that you want your money back and the rest sorted out or you will sue.

Tell them that they have 14 days and that they won't hear from you again until they receive the court papers.

 

Then sue.

Don't bluff. They won't pay attention to you. You will have to sue.

 

Don't bother to get involved with anything else. Don't get involved with the VF customer rep on this site. He is helpful, but the issue of cancellation charges is too important to VF and the Rep won't be able to do anything and you will simply get your hopes up for nothing and endure more delay.

 

If you aren't prepared to do this, then you will just have to get over it.

[ShaneG2009]

BankFodder - i like your bluntless, it is what i need.

 

I did contest the lawfulness of the charges and raised this with both VF and the FOS but ultimately what i have learned is what you say below, the FOS are not prepared to stand up to companies like Vodafone. I know i have been massively naive in thinking if i took my complaint to the FOS they'd do something about it. Shame on me as you say.

 

I am taking your advise and am writing to VF today insisting they provide details of the charges and if not i will sue. I am quite prepared to go this route and hope i can count on this forum for help if/when i have to draft my claim.

[BankFodder]

Don't send the letter you have proposed in your post #7 above.

It is far too long. You don't need to explain your whole life story. You'll be telling them the colour of your underpants next.

 

Keep it very short.

 

Refer to the cancellation charges which you think are unlawful because they are disproportionate.

In any even they have a contractual duty to account for them which they have refused to do so.

The have entered information on your credit file relating to charges which are unenforceable be virtue of their unlawfulness

They have entered information on to your credit file about a matter which is subject to a dispute - which is contrary to Information Commissioner guidelines.

 

If they do not account to you for the charges

repay the money to you

delete all references to this matter from your credit file

 

within 14 days, you will send them the good news and without any further notice.

[ShaneG2009]

BF

 

Thanks - i wont send that letter, it is too long. It'll just be a summary and confirmation i intend to issue proceedings against them.

 

Just looked at the N1 form, in the particulars how legally minded does it need to be? Do i simply write i believe their penalty charges are unlawful (as you can tell i need some help drafting this document).

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[citizenB]

Use the form/content that Bankfodder used in his post prior to yours. You don't need legal jargon.

[ShaneG2009]

OK the wheels are in motion.

 

Thanks and i'll keep you updated.

[citizenB]

If you want to pop a draft on your thread, we can make sure you are on the right track

[ShaneG2009]

Dear all,

 

Vodafone have just rang confirming receipt of my LBA. They say because they have 'exhausted their internal complaints procedure' they cannot do anything further.

 

This i believe allows me to move things forward and issue court proceedings. I'd be very grateful if fellow members can guide me in preparing particulars to issue etc.

 

Can i do this online?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

[citizenB]

Yes, I think most claims are issued online now. I will flag your thread for someone to help you.

[BankFodder]

Yes - you can do it online using the court MoneyClaim service.

 

However, you are normally required to wait 14 days after the LBA.

 

Unless they give it to you in writing that they won't do anything, I would wait until the 14 days are up.

 

However, you can prepared the claim and save it on the MoneyClaim website so that you can fire it off at the deadline

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes, I think most claims are issued online now. I will flag your thread for someone to help you.

 

Moneyclaim online if the claim is for money only, take a look through the HMCS web site.

[ShaneG2009]

All,

 

Vodafone will be emailing me in due course to confirm that they will not be taking any further steps to resolve my complaint. I've told them the next step is Court and their response was that they'd exhausted their procedures so couldnt do anything else. The lady i spoke to was from the Directors Office so assume she knows the implications?

 

MoneyClaim does look to be for money claims. My original intention for this was to simply seek removal of the default on the basis the charges were excessive / unlawful but maybe it is time to attract some kind of financial penalty to it?

 

Shane

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Financial redress for the effect of the default entry and any provable consequential loss.

[ShaneG2009]

So i guess having to accept a Credit Card with an APR of 34%, a car loan of similar APR and being rejected for mortgages with my fiancee would be fine examples. How the hell does one attribute a suitable redress for those?

 

Going through the motions on MoneyClaim and am minded to simply pay the court fee for a claim up to £3k which is £70.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

If you have documentation on the refusal and the subprime CC and car loan, I have in the past proposed redress of £500- £1000 per entry on CRA files + a ''consideration'' for the stress, anxiety and embarrassment of be declined for standard terms on credit accounts, these were successful with out litigation.

[ShaneG2009]

Thanks.

Just writing a draft of the particulars now. I'm going to put the following or words to the effect: -

1. Vodafone Limited has levied Unlawful Penalty Charges against me. They are disproportionate to the extreme

2. Vodafone Limited are in breach of Contract for their failure to provide me with any explanation as to the basis or legality of said charges despite repeated requests

3. Vodafone Limited have unlawfully defaulted my credit file on the basis of said charges. Furthermore there is continued processing of disputed data which is contrary to the Information Commissioners Guidelines

4. Vodafone Limited are in breach of the Data Protection Act for failing to accurately administer a Default (unlawful in the first instance due to the unlawfulness of the charges which the default sum largely relates to) which they have placed i.e. the unlawful Default on my credit file is marked as ‘Satisfied’ but on the wrong date, the unlawful default was satisfied on 20th September 2011 not the 7th November as recorded by Vodafone Limited

5. Vodafone Limited has failed to comply with the legally binding requirements of the Ombudsman Decision dated 14th August 2012 despite repeated requests to do so.

Is this too wordy?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Suggestions 1. Delete extreme not needed.

3. Information Commissioners Office Technical Guidance on defaults (quote)'' If a default sum consists of ''charges'' without which the account would have not been defaulted NO default should be placed'', backs up your claim.

 

The rest is fine only suggestion to many ''unlawfuls' at point 5.

You can make the point also that YOU have made every attempt to achieve resolution without success.

[ShaneG2009]

Thanks - modified to suit and ready to go.

 

I set the limit at £2k and am ready to submit....

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

OK hold fire as bankfodder said until Voda confirm by e-mail.

[ShaneG2009]

They have just confirmed via email that they will be taking no further action...payment details for the court fee being entered now.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

They have just confirmed via email that they will be taking no further action...payment details for the court fee being entered now.

 

Talk about strike while the iron is hot shane:madgrin:

[ShaneG2009]

No time like the present. Claim IN!!!

 

Northampton County Court. We'll see, this can go one of 2 ways only i guess.

[BankFodder]

The way to deal with this is to make the moneyclaim.

Once the papers are issued and the case is allocated and transferred you can either let it go to a hearing- which if you win - you can use as a springboard to default removal or you can then issue an N244 and amend your claim to include the default removal

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The very best of luck Shane!! Please let us know what the outcome is.

[ShaneG2009]

I will keep you all in the loop at every single stage. I mentioned in the particulars i was seeking Default removal so we will see how VF react but if needed i'll follow the steps given by BF above.

 

We will see ; )