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Hi all

 

Mike - the claim didnt get served with the POC, there was only space for limited detail on the actual form so i just siad in brief terms the issues i wanted resolving.

 

BF - i havent issued the extended POC as yet however i have taken on board the comments you made above so it's a lot more streamlined now. Is now the time to do it or should i wait for VF defence? If i do issue the extended POC now where do i send it, to the defendants, the courts or both?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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I suggest that you let us see what your new version is.

You are required to serve them on the defendant within 14 days of service of the claim.

I would suggest that you also file a copy with the court once the claim has been transferred


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I suggest that you let us see what your new version is.

You are required to serve them on the defendant within 14 days of service of the claim.

I would suggest that you also file a copy with the court once the claim has been transferred

 

BF - it is essentially a copy and paste of what you wrote above aside from adding in my relevant details.

 

I'll get them issued to Vodafone's brief by email and recorded delivery today.

 

Is there any specific wording i should use in a covering letter?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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Shane

 

Tbh, your particulars in post #24 gave the other side ample information to respond to, if there is any part of the case it doesn't understand it only has to ask. There's nothing immediately obvious within your additional particulars which will add anything to the case or the other sides understanding of the matter.

 

Your long draft in post #49 could be useful as a witness statement to provide the J wth some background information should it reach a hearing. I'd be inclined to wait on receipt of it's defence and angle your witness evidence [statement] to counter it. Plenty of time to tinker with it yet, its a longwinded process... see what it responds with first.

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Hi all,

 

Just a quick update:

 

- Email received from court today (looks mainly automated) and is asking me to fill out the N244 form if i wish to alter my particulars. I guess this will only be required when / if i see a defence from VF?

 

- My calculation tells me VF via Riverview have until tomorrow to file a defence with the Court. I have just returned from a weeks holiday and was half expecting to have post from them with their defence but i guess i have until tomorrows post to see if a document is forthcoming.

 

Any thoughts on how to play things now i'm entering into 'squeeky bum' time would be useful.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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Are they referring to your extended particulars? In that case tell the court that they have misunderstood.

 

If they fail to file a defence on time then apply for judgment immediately - without any waiting. A defence can still be lodged at anytime before judgment is applied for


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Hi BF

 

Yes, they are referring to my extended particulars. Can you educate me as to why they may be misunderstanding?

 

OK - no problem, if i dont have anything in the post tomorrow i shall apply for default judgement.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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Because they think that you want to amend your claim. In fact you are merely serving a more detailed version. You are allowed to do that.

 

However it should be done within 14 days of service of the claim. It would have explained all of this when you were making the claim.

 

Use the language of the court so they will under stand - "Further and Better Particulars of Claim"

 

Send a copy of you FBPOC to the defendant and a copy to the court. Make sure that it is clearly headed Further and Better POC

 

Forgive me saying but you should have read all of this kind of thing up before you issued the claim. Start reading up now.


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Because they think that you want to amend your claim. In fact you are merely serving a more detailed version. You are allowed to do that.

 

However it should be done within 14 days of service of the claim. It would have explained all of this when you were making the claim.

 

Use the language of the court so they will under stand - "Further and Better Particulars of Claim"

 

Send a copy of you FBPOC to the defendant and a copy to the court. Make sure that it is clearly headed Further and Better POC

 

Forgive me saying but you should have read all of this kind of thing up before you issued the claim. Start reading up now.

 

Hi BF

 

That is how i understood it so i have responded to the Courts email saying i'm not amending merely providing more detail.

 

all, can anyone advise on the deadline date to clarify for me. The timeline of events are that the original deadline for VF acknowledgment of claim was 2nd June, their solicitors issued acknowledgement of service on the 24th May so i now need clarity on the actual defence deadline, for some reason i think it is today whereas in an earlier post MikeHawk said it would be the 16th?

 

I guess it is either today or tomorrows post in which they need to issue something so it's only a matter of a day with the no post Sunday thing.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

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Well you issued on MoneyClaim so keep on going back to it. It won't let you apply for judgment until the time limit has expired.


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Well you issued on MoneyClaim so keep on going back to it. It won't let you apply for judgment until the time limit has expired.

 

I have tried and can't request judgement today so it must be Sunday that the limit expires. I guess that means they've got tomorrows post to send their defence to me (assuming they cannot email me a defence on Sunday?).

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Shane

 

You previously indicated a deemed service date of 19th May, defence must be filed by day 28 if service acknowledged. In your case 16th June.

 

Can you confirm if you specified the quantum (value) of damage or requested an assessment for relief by the court?

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Shane

 

You previously indicated a deemed service date of 19th May, defence must be filed by day 28 if service acknowledged. In your case 16th June.

 

Can you confirm if you specified the quantum (value) of damage or requested an assessment for relief by the court?

 

Hi Mike

 

When I organised the claim I set a value of £1000 to get to the Court fee of £60. Other than that I've not made any mention of quantum.

 

Cheers

 

Shane

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Just to clarify, within the N1 you entered a fixed value of £1000.00 in the field "amount claimed" and £60.00 in "court fee"?

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Just to clarify, within the N1 you entered a fixed value of £1000.00 in the field "amount claimed" and £60.00 in "court fee"?

 

Hi Mike

 

Yes that is correct. There are no other mentions of quantum in my claim at this stage...should there be?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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All

 

Quick update from MCOL in that VF have filed a defence today. I guess that means i will receive a copy in tomorrows post as i cant see the document on their website.

 

I will let you know what the defence is and then i'd appreciate your assistance on my next move....

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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Morning all,

 

I am now in receipt of Vodafone's defence in relation to my court action. In summary they deny all important parts of the claim so i guess it rumbles on. Key points raised by Riverview as follows: -

 

1) They deny the Termination Fee was 'disproportionately high'. They further state the termination fee is equal to the remaining months of the airtime contract. They end by saying the charge is 'equal to and not in excess of what the remainder of the contract would have cost the customer'. I believe this goes against the UTTCR in that the fee should only be what it costs the provider and not the customer...i may be wrong??

 

2) They deny the Termination Fee is Contrary to the UTTCR as the amount was not 'Disproportionately high' nor did it amount to 'Compensation'

 

3) They deny any breach of OFCOM regulations in relation to the charges applied to the account. They state OFCOM allow service providers to apply Early Termination fees to a customer account where the Contractual minimum term is not adhered to.

 

4) They deny that the calculation of the Termination Fee is not freely available and state it is available in the Terms and Conditions and on the Vodafone website

 

5) They deny the tactics used in the recovery of the 'Debt' were unlawful. They further state all procedures used are 'standard'

 

6) They deny ever agreeing to provide me with a detailed calculation of the Early Termination Fee (blatant lie!!!!). They again refer to the information being available on the website and in the Terms & Condition

 

7) They deny any breach of the DPA in recording the Default. They state Clause 14 of their Terms allow them to take this course of action. They deny any liability for damage / distress caused by the Default

 

The above is the crux of the defence save for a few other minor points.

 

What do i do now, do i have to respond to this document or do i have to wait to hear from the court. I have a feeling after reading the defence that you guys will have answers to most of it particularly their denial that the termination fee wasnt high or a breach of the UTTCR so i would be truly grateful if you could all help me with my next steps in this.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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You can if you wish respond to each of their points as a rebuttal Witness statement.


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You are right. The termination fee is probably disproportionate on the basis that you have said. Vodafone have effectively agree that you are right. By calculating their termination fee as if the contract had not been terminated, they are breaching UTCCR

 

OFCOM regulations are a set of industry rules are not necessarily legally binding. In any event, any company which is regulated by OFCOM must operate within the law. By permitting a termination fee, OFCOM has not said that VF can operate it unlawfully. OFCOM would not have power to do this anyway.

 

Debt collection procedures may be standard - but that doesn't make them lawful. In fact if they are unlawful and they are standard, then that would mean that VF is applying unlawful measures across the board. Of course, you will have to show that they are unlawful, first.

 

If their charges are unlawful, then it will follow that any CRA entries are also unlawful. Prove the charges are unlawful and the rest will fall into place.

 

Wait to hear from the court and then we can put together a reply to the defence if you want.


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You are right. The termination fee is probably disproportionate on the basis that you have said. Vodafone have effectively agree that you are right. By calculating their termination fee as if the contract had not been terminated, they are breaching UTCCR

 

OFCOM regulations are a set of industry rules are not necessarily legally binding. In any event, any company which is regulated by OFCOM must operate within the law. By permitting a termination fee, OFCOM has not said that VF can operate it unlawfully. OFCOM would not have power to do this anyway.

 

Debt collection procedures may be standard - but that doesn't make them lawful. In fact if they are unlawful and they are standard, then that would mean that VF is applying unlawful measures across the board. Of course, you will have to show that they are unlawful, first.

 

If their charges are unlawful, then it will follow that any CRA entries are also unlawful. Prove the charges are unlawful and the rest will fall into place.

 

Wait to hear from the court and then we can put together a reply to the defence if you want.

 

Thanks BF, I thought it might come down to essentially proving the charges are disproportionate. I guess ultimately it will be for the judge to decide if he / she feels this is the case. If that proves successful I guess the domino effect applies and as you say the other issues will fall by the wayside.

 

I assume the Court will issue me something in due course but would it be wise to indicate to both the Court and VF I intend to respond to their defence or do I just wait and bide my time?

 

Also I wonder if it would help to see if there are other forum members who've been terminated by VF early and suffered the same fate in regards termination charges? I guess this would prove a couple of things I.e. they've done wrong to others or conversely they haven't been balanced across all of their customer base. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree but just feel it may be prudent to add some meat to my argument surrounding the charges.

 

I would very much appreciate your help in drafting a response when the time comes and if you want I can send you a copy of their defence in full?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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Please email the defence to our admin address.

In the meantime - just wait


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Please email the defence to our admin address.

In the meantime - just wait

 

Hi BankFodder,

 

I've emailed the defence to the address you provided. Also sent a copy of my extended particulars.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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Hi BF

 

I 've received a letter from the Courts enclosing a questionnaire. I'm sure you know what is says having previous experience but basically asks for me to consider mediation with the Defendant. Is this worthwhile or is it time to issue a response to VF's defence and crack on with a hearing?

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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When do you need to respond to this ?


Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy -

HERE

2: Take back control of your finances -

Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors?

Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt

Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated -

Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi CitizenB

 

A response is required by the 1st July so plenty of time.

 

Thanks

 

Shane

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