@asklloydsbank lloyds & Reconstituted copy of OH's Credit Card CCA

[roaringgirl]

Hi,

 

I have had a response from Lloyds - they have sent me a reconstituded copy of the CCA.

 

It does not contain a signature, although I believe it doesn't have to contain a signature in order for it to be enforceable.

 

It's for credit card and it has my husband's name and address on it but nothing else. No credit limit on it.

 

That was document 1.

 

Document 2 was entitled

'Your Lloyds TSB Credit Card terms and conditions.

Applicable from 26th November 2011'

The account was defaulted on in 2004.

 

They have given a statement of the account in another, separate letter stating the balance,

credit limit,current monthly interest rates, arrears and further payments to be made.

 

They state they have sent us a copy of the Signed document - but it is not signed.

 

My husband owes them £896 - we have previously offered £330 as a F&F settlement which they have refused.

 

I'm not sure if we can do much more - they insist that this is a legally enforceable debt.

 

What next?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Roar.

Edited November 2, 2012 by roaringgirl
additional information

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi,have payments been made at any time since the default date?

The recon is not compliant unless it includes T&Cs from the inception of the account and at the time of closure.

Check your credit rerference files to see if the debt shows.

What was the purpose of the CCA request?

[roaringgirl]

Hi,have payments been made at any time since the default date?

The recon is not compliant unless it includes T&Cs from the inception of the account and at the time of closure.

Check your credit rerference files to see if the debt shows.

What was the purpose of the CCA request?

 

 

We have been paying through Payplan since 2004.

The purpose of the cca was to see if it was enforceable.

 

 

The recon has no date on it and no signature just his name and address . They have refused all offers for a f&f

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The CCA recon does not have to have a signature, but it must have the original anf final Ts & Cs.

As this is a pre April 2007 agreement they would need the original to enforcein court.

I would contest the validity of the recon, a complaint to the Data Controller is needed.

[roaringgirl]

The CCA recon does not have to have a signature, but it must have the original anf final Ts & Cs.

As this is a pre April 2007 agreement they would need the original to enforcein court.

I would contest the validity of the recon, a complaint to the Data Controller is needed.

Thank you Brigadier - is there a template of a letter of complaint I could use?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No not really, but I can draft a letter for you tomorrow for you to suit the situation.

[roaringgirl]

Wow! Would you? Thank you

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Wow! Would you? Thank you

 

 

I will pm it to tomorrow am.

[roaringgirl]

Thank you

 

Just had a response from Arden by the way

- they had sent me a recon too but as it had no name, no T's & C's in fact nothing I challenged it.

 

They have just sent me a letter saying they are looking into my complaint and will get back to me within 14 days.

[roaringgirl]

Hi

 

LLOYDS CARD

 

1) Lloyds card - Payplan say my husband owes them £794.97 but they say we owe them £896.25

2) We offered a payment for f&F but it was rejected

3) CCa'd them and was given a recon with only my husband's name and address - no other details.

Also given a variation of terms dated Nov 2011.

The debt was defaulted at the end of 2004.

 

Where next? I'm not sure this will stand up

- should I SAR them?

 

omplain?

 

What?

 

How do I go about challenging them about the recon?

[roaringgirl]

Apologies - I seem to have been over zealous in postingabout this recon!

[roaringgirl]

Hello Brigadier,

 

I am referring to your earlier comment

 

"As this is a pre April 2007 agreement they would need the original to enforcein court."

 

Are you sure? Having read lots of threads on thisit appears this is rather a grey area?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Were the Banks name and address on the documents provided?

Was stement of the account provided.

The recon should have Debtors name and address as at the inception of the account.

The creditors name and address as at inception.

The Original terms and conditions, any varaitions and the terms and conditions as at the closure of the account or current if the account is''live''.

A statement of the current state of the account.

[roaringgirl]

Were the Banks name and address on the documents provided?

Was stement of the account provided. Yes - an overview but not all the payments which have been made

The recon should have Debtors name and address as at the inception of the account. Yes

The creditors name and address as at inception. Yes

The Original terms and conditions, any varaitions and the terms and conditions as at the closure of the account or current if the account is''live''. Yes - but only general ones - no sign of the credit limt at all

A statement of the current state of the account. No! Only what I have stated above

 

See above!!! And apologgies for posting again about this!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

As it stands yes

 

they would need a copy of the original signed and executed agreement BUT English Civil Law ''grows'' the judgements made in higher courts, ''case''

 

such case law has allowed the production of ''reconstituted'' agreements in certain circumstances,

 

the recon has to comply with said case law a judge has to decide if the recon perhaps with the production of statements for example showing useage of the credit facility

and payments being made are enough to believe that an account exists/exsisted and that an obligation still subsists.

[roaringgirl]

So the fact we have made payments to them since 2004 will say that we ackowledged the debt existed and therefore have an obligation to pay?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok the credit limit is advised after the agreement has been executed, normally either with the card or shortly before the card is issued.I would not expect it to be on the agreement.

The statement is only for the current status of the account,if you requier any other data you must make a SAR.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It would be impossible to judge otherwise, I cannot see any merit in denying that an account exists and is/has been used.

[roaringgirl]

If I Sar them will the account be placed on hold?

[roaringgirl]

Thought so - any ideas how I would go about negotiating a reduced F&F settlement?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No that only happens automatically with a CCA request, the best you can try is to tell them you have made a SAR and the account is in dispute until you receive the data, they may or may not accept.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Yes a full and final settlement may lead to CRA entries being marked partially satisfied or satisfied if the creditor will not agree to total removal

 

The settlement Must be entirely on your terms as follows.

 

The offer is made on the strict understanding that:

 

1. Any remaining balance is not sold or assigned to any third party.

2. You agree to remove all adverse data from ALL credit reference agency files.

3. This offer is open for 7 working days only.

 

OK the negotiations:

 

1. Make a low offer of no more than 7.5 - 10% of the full balance.

2 Keep all negitiations in writting.

3. DO NOT make any payment without the creditors explicit written agreement, if you do they will treat it as a ''gift'' and just credit it to the account and pursue you for the balance.

(3) Is the most IMPORANT to remember.

 

4. If the first offer is not acceptable raise no more than 2.5%, this hopefully will elicit an amount that the WILL accept then you negotiate downwards.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Letter to challenge recon if you wish to do so?

 

You are not intending to point out to them What is missing just that you believe that the recon does not meet sect 77/78 CCA 1974.

 

Address to the Compliance Manager

 

Ref: as on their reply to the CCA request.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated xx xx xxxx in regard to my request for documents under section 77/78 of the CCA 1974, I have now reviewed the the documents supplied and have concluded that they DO NOT comply with my lawful request under the Act as the reconstituted agreement is incomplete.

 

Therefore the account therefore remains formally in dispute.

[roaringgirl]

Ok - despite having been in a DMP since October 2004

- this account has not been defaulted.

 

After much rummaging I found the original letter with the original amout outstanding.

 

The amount was £3552.05.

 

We have paid them £2848.20 which leaves an oustanding balance of £703.82

and NOT £896 as stated by them.

 

Time to dispute again I think.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Odd that Lloyds have not defaulted a debt that size, is this info from your credit files?