Equita - Unknown Parking Ticket

[chris223b]

Back in July, I moved house (and to a different town and different local authority area at that). I had earlier this year had a large number of PCNs, most of which were succesfully fought and repealed with one outstanding which I paid. As far as I was aware all outstanding matters had been dealt with, and there certainly weren't any new PCNs in the last month or so before leaving, so if there were and the ticket was removed from my car I would have had time for the NTO to arrive before leaving.

 

Today, I've come home to a letter from Equita regarding an unpaid ticket which apparantly has been through the court and a warrant of execution granted. They do not include any PCN number, any reference number for the warrant of execution they apparantly have, the VRN of the car involved, nor are they demanding any specific amount of money, only that I contact them before 'further enforcement proceedings' are started. The usual bailiff threats of a visit from the door and removing goods are not made.

 

In the past I did have some PCNs which ended up with Equita, and this is not like any letter I've seen before, those all demanded a specific amount of money, were properly reference with the PCN and VRN and were much more specific about what would happen if I didn't pay.

 

Also, as I scrapped my car as part of the move I've never had it registered as my new address, nor have I registered on the electoral role so I'm uncertain how they've even found me - my only guess can be they've searched council tax registers for people with the same name (my surname is uncommon) and are fishing to see what response they get.

 

This is also the only letter I've had regarding this alleged ticket at all, so if they or the council knew where I was previously I would have expected correspondance before things got to this stage.

 

A few things I'm wondering

 

 

• Is this likely to be a fishing letter to see if I'll respond or would they actually take action against this address without response from me or something else to confirm that I am the person they are looking for - if they are fishing it's even possible that this has nothing to do with me - my name might be uncommon but there were 2 of us in the phone book at my old town!
  
• Can they proceed without some kind of verified proof of where I live?
  
• What would be the status of the warrant of execution that already exists? Would that be to levy distress at a specific address (i.e. my old one only) or would it cover anywhere where they know (or believe) me to be? Would 'further enforcement proceedings' mean that they need to go back to court before they can do anything else at a different address?
  
• Can I apply to have the court order for the warrant of execution set aside on the grounds that I didn't know I was being taken to court and have had no opportunity to defend myself?
  
• If I go down the route of making an out-of-time witness statement on the grounds that I didn't have the opportunity to fight the PCN, accept it and pay a lower fee, or file a witness statement in time is this likely to be succesful (I've never had success with an O-O-T yet, but I've never before had the argument that I didn't live at the address they sent the information to)?
  
• Can I find relevant information out without contacting Equita - it's not about avoiding a ticket, it's more that to them all I am is a name with a sum of money attached to it and their greater concern is getting me to pay it, not about whether or not I actually owe it or have grounds to fight it so I don't consider them an impartial body to get information from!
  
• How long would Equita wait before taking any further action, to give me an idea of how long I have to sort this out?
  

Any help would be greatfully appreciated!

[lamma]

This sounds like its a bailiff acting as debt collector and hoping you fall for it. Need to see the letter really - without personal details of course. The bailiff may have transgressed.

[chris223b]

Something I didn't see before is that there *is* a PCN reference on the letter after all, it's written in a tiny font (about size 4 or 5) and buried in with the footer, no idea why they want it hidden!

 

I've gone back through my appeals, with this particular one the first I knew of the PCN was receiving the NTO. I appealed on the grounds that I never received the ticket so never had the opportunity to pay the discounted amount (this particular one I couldn't argue with). They refused the appeal (I did have 3 tickets withdrawn by this point so clearly not their favourite person). As I'd found the TPT a waste of time in the past, and I was quite willing to pay the discounted charge, I submitted a stat dec to the court on the grounds that I had never received the PCN and expected to receive one to pay.

 

The court action was cancelled, but the council never sent anything out about re-starting the process, and that happened well over 2 months before I moved out. So this one has already been through the court once and sent back!

 

The wording of the letter is:

 

Dear XXXXXX

 

We are instructed by

in connection with the warrant of execution granted against you by the traffic enforcement centre at Northampton County Court.

 

1) The Court has ordered that you clear the arrears in respect of your unpaid penalty charge notice for vehicle

(I guess this point is where my VRN is supposed to go but its left blank)

 

2) Unless we receive full payment of the outstanding amount or reach agreement for payment by return, further enforcement proceedings will be started against you. This will incur additional charges which will be added to your debt.

 

3) Please contact me on the telephone numer below upon receipt of this letter to discuss how you intend paying the outstanding sum due to our client.

 

4) Payment by return can be made by cash, cheque, postal order/money order, or credit/debit card. Your payment should be sent to 'Equita Limited' at the address shown below quoting reference xxxxxx

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Bailiff Manager

Equita Limited

Any further ideas on how to play this one? I'd quite happily pay the charge on the PCN, but that's all I'm willing to pay! Equita no doubt will want hundreds.

[lamma]

Ring the TEC, you need to tell them the PCN number. Get the warrant set aside. The TEC will email you the forms for this. can't say from the information in the thread which forms, TEC should help with that. Send them back today and make sure they are filled in correctly (many posts about this on here, check out tomtubby's on this matter). then confirm (still today) with the TEC that the case has been set aside then fax the Bailiff and the Local Authority informing of that fact and that any attempt to levy will be unlawful as the law is clear that enforcement action has now been estpped.

[chris223b]

Thanks Lamma, only just got home from work so didn't get to do anything today. Just to confirm that I say the right thing to the TEC (haven't found them very helpful on my dealings with them before), I am applying to get the warrant set aside and I can apply to do that directly without need to try a stat dec out of time (which I did try with a previous ticket but that went nowhere)?

 

You make this sound like a very routine and easy thing to do, hope it actually goes that well!

 

If I manage to get the warrant set aside, what happens next? Will the council restart the enforcement action again at my new address so I can finally pay the original ticket price, or does it just stay up in the air?

[tomtubby]

You will almost certainly need to file an Out of Time witness statement . Did you update your records with DVLA?

[chris223b]

Confirmed by TEC, an OOT is the only way to go about this. I tried one of these before on the grounds that I didn't file out of time because I had filed before the date on the form and TEC's own date stamp confirmed that. The explanation is that the form had the wrong date printed on it, the LA refused to allow the OOT, and the 'impartial hearing' at TEC upheld their decision.

 

Nevertheless, I've filed an OOT. Does this put any type of temporary hold on the warrant whilst it is being considered? If this is lost I guess I'm looking at N244 as the only way forward?

 

Today I've come home to another letter from Equita apparantly about another PCN. The letter is identical to the first. This PCN I have no record of at all, and as far as I'm aware I didn't do anything which would have attracted a PCN before leaving my old address. As with the first letter, my VRN is not listed.

 

My details were not updated with DVLA as there was nothing to update - my vehicle was scrapped as part of the moving process so was never registered at my new address as it was never at it, and at the time there was no action going on with any tickets at all so no reason to tell the council that I was moving.

 

Curiously, Equita have still take no further action on the original letter, even though I've now had it for almost 2 weeks.

[chris223b]

I've now come home to a letter (apparently sent on monday) with 'Removal Notice' on it, warning me that bailiffs will call with no further warning to impound my car (which no longer exists) if i don't pay immediately. Both of the tickets now have OOT's filed. From reading other threads action should be stopped until this is resolved?

[brassnecked]

I've now come home to a letter (apparently sent on monday) with 'Removal Notice' on it, warning me that bailiffs will call with no further warning to impound my car (which no longer exists) if i don't pay immediately. Both of the tickets now have OOT's filed. From reading other threads action should be stopped until this is resolved?

 

Well when they call and impound the random parked motor, you can go for them with guns blazing quoting Blaby council and rossendales, LGO at them.

 

If they actually tow a random car all the better as it is then stolen, and the police can be involved, to feel their collar. (wishful thinking)

 

In any case if OOT accepted Equita can go swivel, as all fees removed.

[tomtubby]

You have filed an OTT and all enforcement is therefore suspended until the matter is resolved. CPR 75 (8.1).

 

I am very interested in the previous OTT which you say was submitted IN TIME. Would you mind providing some more detail on this.

 

As many people on here are aware, I have a commercial business advising the public concerning a bailiff visit and worryingly, I have come across too many similar enquiries !!!!

[chris223b]

I am very interested in the previous OTT which you say was submitted IN TIME. Would you mind providing some more detail on this

It was a couple of years ago, basically I submitted a stat dec and TEC sent it back to me saying they couldn't process it as it was submitted out of time. However, their own date stamp on the form showed that it was received the day before the deadline. I rang TEC to advise them of their mistake, they then calculated that the deadline should have been a few days before the date on the form, and so the form was wrong.

 

I tried arguing that any mistake on their part is not my problem, I had been given an official form giving a date to respond by and by their own acknowledgement I had responsed by that date.

 

They advised that OOT was still the only way to go as the stat dec had been refused for being out of time, regardless of why this had happened.

 

I was quite confident that the OOT would be accepted as it seemed a matter of common sense and I had supporting evidence. It was declined and I ended up paying them.

 

Back to these tickets, I have been reading up on OOT's. Despite every story being that they are always declined (and my own experience of it) I did find details of someone's freedom of information request into them and it would seem that about half of them do get accepted.

 

Any ideas on the likelihood of this one being succesful? Not notifying DVLA of a move seems to be an accepted reason for refusing them but in this case there was nothing to notify DVLA of.

 

Also, I have read several times that if you have moved and are traced to a new address, then this in itself should knock the tickets back to NTO stage. Is this actually a policy? If so does this not mean that there is no warrant and I shouldn't need to be doing any of this?

[chris223b]

This is in connection to a couple of PCNs which were passed to Equita and are currently awaiting a decision on an OOT application. The circumstances surrounding the PCNs are in my thread below.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?370272-Equita-Unknown-Parking-Ticket

 

The purpose of creating this separate thread is over a point which I think is more general, and if I'm right (I'm probably not as I can't believe I'm the first to think of this!) could potentially help other people.

 

Based on other threads and my own previous experience, I'm aware there's a high likelihood that the OOT won't be accepted, so I'm using this time to think of contingencies of where to go next if that happens.

 

If I'm unsuccesful, then the next step is N244. I will be liable for the full £80 fee for this and I am aware that it is highly unlikely that I will get this back. With one of the tickets in particular, I am prepared to admit full liability to the offence and am aware that I have no grounds for appeal. My defence has always been not that I shouldn't have got the ticket, but that I didn't receive one and so have never had the opportunity to pay at the discounted rate (see the other thread for details). So, with a succesful N244 + the original £35 ticket fee I am still going to have to resign myself that this ticket will cost me £115.

 

What got me thinking, is that £115 is awfully similar to the amount the council would have charged me if they were paid after the warrant of execution was granted but before the bailiffs got involved.

 

If I approached them to call off their bailiffs and let me pay them directly, they would claim that there is nothing to do once bailiffs are appointed and refer me back to them (the LA uses Capita as a backoffice and the bailiffs are Equita so the usual conflict of interest comes into play).

 

But at the moment, I've been advised in the other thread that all action should be stopped whilst a decision on the OOT is made. As I understand it, if the application is refused, I then have 14 days to make an N244 application, if I do that then action is again halted whilst a decision on that is made, and if I don't then the action continues and the bailiffs are re-instated.

 

But, doesn't this mean that there is a small window created here - a time when there is no pending decision on the warrant but also no enforcement action?

 

In that case, what is to stop me approaching the LA at that point offering full payment of the warrant (not something I feel just, but about the same as it will cost me to apply for N244 and pay the original fine anyway)? What grounds would they have to refuse it? And if they accepted it, the bailiffs couldn't be called back to execute the warrant as it's already been satisfied?

 

I realise they could attempt to pursue me for their costs already incurred, but without have a warrant to execute wouldn't this just reduce their authority to that of a conventional debt collector (i.e., none whatsoever), and they'd have to go for a CCJ against me to actually enforce their costs (which I see as being unlikely as their costs are never right?)

 

I'm sure I am seeing something which is too good to be true, as this would appear to be a way out (albeit not a free one) of bailiff action on any ticket which has gone to bailiffs but not had a witness statement filed?

[TB Law]

My feeling is the council wont accept payment while an N244 application is being considered, but after the N244 fails then you can pay the council.

 

You lose your £80 but the bailiffs fees are less than that (£11.20 letter, no levy then its £0.00 visit fee etc) so not sure what you trying to achieve.

[chris223b]

Well at the moment I'm hoping to get the OOT accepted and be able to pay one ticket at the original value and fight the other as I know nothing about it! I think you misunderstand where I'm coming from (sorry if my post wasn't clear). What I'd be trying to achieve is to create a 3rd option if an OOT is declined (hence the separate thread). Rather than going down the 'official' routes of either filing N244 or wait for the council to resume enforcement action (ie pay the bailiff + fees), the aim would be to create a third alternative.

 

My thinking is that there appears to be a 14 day window between the OOT being declined and enforcement action resuming to allow time to make an N244 application. The question is whether this window could be used instead to pay the warrant directly to the council and not apply for an N244. This would then roughly be the same as paying N244 fee + original ticket. This would also appear to prevent putting the bailiffs back on the case as the warrant would be satisfied so they'd have nothing to come at you with.

 

If this would work, it could be more expensive in some cases (eg if you are entitled to have your N244 fee waived, you have grounds to fight the original PCN or want to contest the bailiff fees) but in some cases this may be a better option (if it's an option at all).

[TB Law]

Im not entirely sure what this third alternative is, but you can have a look at Part 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules that govern how councils administer parking enforcement and see whether you can play a card. http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part75

[tomtubby]

If there is a change of address then the bailiff is supposed to refer the warrant back to local authority under CPR 75.(7.7)

 

As for whether your OTT will be accepted, this all depends on whether you had provided a GOOD REASON as to why you had been unable to file the witness statement at the Order for Recovery stage.

[chris223b]

Today OOT's for both tickets have come back refused. One of them has the council's response letter attached.

 

In it they claim that Equita sent a standard notice to my current address about 2 months before I received the second chase letter. They also claim that all correspondence has been sent to my current address and claim that I must have received it as it's the same address on my OOT appeal. It's clearly a standard letter but they've totally ignored the fact that I put in the OOT that I had moved to this address which is why I didn't receive the earlier correspondence - my original address is not mentioned at any point.

 

Since filling it, I've also realised where Equita (are likely to have) got my details from - I still owe the LA outstanding council tax and gave them my new address shortly after I moved to set up an arrangement which I'm paying off. The date they claimed that Equita sent their initial letter was before the council were aware of where I have moved to, which ties in to why I didn't receive the earlier letter.

 

I am now thinking of N244, but of course at this point it costs me money, I'd appreciate a bit of advice!

 

• Can I put both tickets onto one N244 to be considered at one hearing and pay one fee since I have the same case for both of them, or do I need to do one N244 per ticket?
  
• Given that there are holes in the story and (presumably) the warrant will show a different address to that which the council have claimed they sent it to, is there any real advantage to paying the £80 for a hearing or would do I have a strong enough 'paper' argument to only pay the £45 review without hearing fee
  
• Being that I have 14 days to file N244, does this mean that action cannot restart until then?
  
• Does N244 temporarily halt action in the same way that an OOT does?
  
• I did create another thread on this last month, but with the first ticket (I still know nothing about the second one) I do not have any grounds to dispute the PCN itself, my dispute was always that I never received the PCN and thus never had the opportunity to pay the original discounted fee. Thus paying the £80 N244 fee + £35 PCN fee will come to £115, which is a very similar amount to paying the amount on the court registration. If I'm quick and contact the council before the account is passed back to Equita, can I simply pay the full amount on the warrant to the council and cut Equita off at source by satisfying the warrant and leaving them with nothing to pursue.
  

[tomtubby]

Before responding in full would you mind calling TEC and ask them to confirm the precise address on the warrant. This SHOULD be your previous address. If it is your current address, ask TEC to confirm the date that the LA requested reissue.

.

You cannot put both PCN's on the same N244. You will need separate ones.

 

If you can put together a good N244 then you could consider going for the "cheaper" route by paying £45 but I can advise later.

 

Could you provide details of exactly what you had put on your OTT

 

When an N244 is filed all enforcement is on hold.

 

NO...the LA will almost certainly refuse payment.

[chris223b]

Just rang TEC, with the first PCN the warrant was issued to my previous address on 4th September and then re-issued to my new address on 26th November. This is the PCN where I have a copy of the LA's response. In this they also state the warrant was issued on 4th September and claim that Equita dispatched their first letter to my current address the same day which doesn't tie in at all with TEC stating it was issued to my previous address on that day.

 

With the 2nd PCN, TEC confirmed that 'the paperwork' was issued to my previous address and that a warrant was issued there on 12th October. They also claim it was re-issued to my new address on 2nd November and then 're-re-issued' to my current address again on 26th November. The council was made aware that I had moved in early September, and I do have a council tax arrangement sent to my new address from September to use as evidence that by October they were aware that I did not live at the address they had a warrant issued to.

 

I asked for a copy of the warrants and was told I could only get them from the LA or the bailiffs as TEC don't actually issue them, the LA do themselves. How can it be legal for an LA to print their own warrant and claim it's from TEC at Northampton County Court when it's not actually been there?

 

On the OOT for both I stated 'I did not have the opportunity to file in time as the order for recovery was sent to my previous address and I did not receive it' and the accompanying witness stated was made under 'I did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice / Notice to Owner'.

[tomtubby]

What date did you move address?

 

When roughly was the car disposed of?

[chris223b]

I got the keys to my new place on 6 July (but I'd moved 6 weeks or so before and was staying with friends whilst finding a new place). The lease on my old flat lasted till the 20th of July which was the last time I was there, so either 6th July or 20th July depending on how you look at it.

 

The car was disposed of on 10th July once I'd moved all my stuff

[tomtubby]

The Re issue request to TEC should NOT have been permitted !!

 

Yet again, it would appear that TEC have allowed a local authority to seek permission re re-issue a warrant when such an application may ONLY be made if the address of the respondent had changed AFTER the date of the original warrant!!!

 

The Civil Procedure Rule Committee imposed such a condition because, by doing so, it would be clear that the respondent would have been living at the property and therefore would have received the Notice to Order, Charge Certificate, Order for Recovery and very likely, the initial letter from a bailiff company.

 

A formal Letter of Complaint should be sent to TEC and also, a letter of complaint should go to the council.

 

It would appear that the local authority have also failed to abide by sections 10.68 and 10.69 of the Secretary of State's Operational Guidance to Local Authorities which states that the LA should re-issue a new Notice to Owner !!!

 

Would you mind calling the local authority and asking them to confirm the date of the NtO, Charge Certificate and Order for Recovery. Please post back once you have this information.

[lamma]

Well said TT (I think I love you )

[tomtubby]

I love you too xxx

 

You know that TEC is my FAVORITE subject......

 

PS: For anyone who is confused....confused....I am a FEMALE !!!

[chris223b]

1st PCN

 

NTO (re-issued) - 3rd May

Charge Certificate - 11th June

Order for Recovery - 17th July

 

2nd PCN

NTO - 21st June

Charge Certificate - 30th July

Order for Recovery - 4th September.

 

Some of these dates (particularly with the first PCN which had already been sent through the court once) are before I before I officially moved away but I had moved to my friends from early May, I did have a shared letterbox with another flat, I did tell them in May that I was moving out and they did have a habit of returning posting sent to previous occupants but none of my other post was missing, I do not believe this paperwork was ever sent.

 

The last date I had access to my old flat was on 20th July which in both cases was before the warrants were issued.

 

What do I do with the N244? If I can get these put back to PCN stage with a formal complaint I would obviously rather do that as it's free. But if I only have 14 days from the date of service (which is 30th November) then I guess I have to pursue it now? Or does making a formal complaint hold the 14 days to make an N244 claim?

 

A big concern I have is around Equita attempting enforcement action when I'm not there. My new flat is in a converted house where the downstairs neighbour has a habit of leaving the door unlocked. I am aware that entry into the communal area doesn't constitute entry into my home but the door to my own flat isn't very secure and I can easily see an enterprising bailiff 'pushing' it and claiming that it opened rather than he forced entry!