Welfare cuts-more to come says Cameron

[Nystagmite]

If we're running out of money, what other ways could there be for them to get some back? Not saying I agree with them, I don't know enough about it. But genuinely interested in what alternatives there could be. Stopping prosecuting 2k benefit frauds, & letting people get away with tax credit fraud for years & only investigating one year could be a start?At the moment there is no incentive to be honest when claiming tax credits, as they rarely look back more than a year. Must be loads being over paid there.

 

But why pick on the people who are lowest earnings or rely solely on benefits? We can't be that worse off if they can afford to give people over £150k a tax cut.

[debt4get]

George Osborne asks what is fair about a shift worker getting up in the morning and looking at the closed curtains of a neighbour who is "sleeping off a life on benefits".

so setting the poorest paid workers in society, against the poorest in society...divide and rule guys..divide and rule...

the fact the poorer workers of society, are still theoretically 'on benefits' WTC CTC and maybe HB and CT doesnt really come into the equation....please wake up UK!!

[debt4get]

no mansion tax!! lets see if Clegg who has already stated ' we will not allow any more benefit cuts, unless we get this' will respond now...or do you think we already know...roll over boy...roll over... there's a good boy!!! wanna go walkies??

[MARTIN3030]

DM has a story on this here;

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214315/Jobless-big-families-lose-benefits-Osborne-vows-slash-10bn-welfare-bill.html

[debt4get]

read it the vitriolic from the daily mail readers almost beggars belief, this idea of I have a job, i work bl**dy hard, they never think of what if? what if my company goes bust and i am made unemployed, what if when i come down the m25 etc my vehicle is involved in an accident and i am unable to work again...but ive paid in for 30 years!!! yeah sorry but they are the rules, now get back to your home and prepare for poverty......there short sightedness is absolutely beyond they seem to think that people on benefits are living in luxury!! when the truth is most of them are living in poverty.....but hey if it saves a couple of bob what the hell...

[Nystagmite]

.there short sightedness is absolutely beyond they seem to think that people on benefits are living in luxury!!

 

Lots of people are doing something wrong then. I don't know of anyone who lives a life of luxury on benefits.

[worried33]

Its quite clear this government doesnt really care about the economy, they may not even care if they lose the next electon. There just is a bunch of businessmen and rich people working on their fiction that success is simply about working hard and nothing else so they see everyone who isnt successful as lazy scroungers, and also their aims of reducing their tax spend and scrapping min wage.

 

Success and failure of an economy is based on demand. Reducing the income of the unemployed reduces demand.

If there is 1 million pounds, giving £1 to a million people does more for the economy than giving 1 million to 1 person. This is basic economics. The tories work on the opposite, a proven failed theory that giving to the rich means it trickles down.

The min wage is also their virus, they loath it enormously. The way to pave the path for it to be pushed aside is to increase demand for jobs, this is done by increasing the unemployed by making the economy worse, and in addition they have a found a way for employers to ignore the min wage with the mandatary work programme. At some point they will claim the min wage is a barrier to growth and remove it, then it wouldnt surprise me if companies start investing their withold profits and then in sync with the government they claim removing min wage was the key.

 

For those who go on about a unsustainable deficit here is something to think about.

 

We have a capatilist market. It is impossible in such a market for everyone to be successful, money would run out. For someone to get richer someone else has to get poorer, simple maths. Generally its easier to make money when you already have money and so we see the super rich generally still getting richer even in recessions, in fact its during recessions when billionairs see the most growth in their wealth, thats because a recession is caused when there is a shift of cashflow from the poor to the superich. They manipulate the economy, when they decide to free up cash again we will see the recession end. This brings me onto as well credit and deficit's. We have osborne banging on about he needs the banks to lend to push the economy, the reason is business's frequently operate in the red, they need to borrow to grow, this is why I think its nonsense that we have people claiming the deficit is prohibiting growth yet at the same time we need business's to have deficit to grow. The only way capitalism is even temporarily sustainable is a credit market as it pumps cash into the market to keep the non superich going as the superrich hoover up existing cash. Thats why as soon as the banks tightened their wallets we had a recession.

 

A long term solution is a revolution, commercial banks closed down with just a state bank that is non profit lending to people, and something done about excessive profits. Its not unusual for something that costs 10p to make to be sold for £3. Educating to the population that social security and helath care come above EVERYTHING else, even people's own wealth. This twaddle we get about people in work should always be better off otherwise it isnt fair is fuelled by thatcher's original motto of everyone looking after themselves. Its about greed. The truth is the working middle class are not starved of cash, this is proven by things like record iphone and ipad sales, a booming entertainment market, families still running multiple cars and so on. the difference is they simply no longer want to share their money, its now a mindset in place they no longer believe in social security and instead its seen as a charity handout.

 

Also we need regulation that states newspapers must exist to report news and not form a poliitical view, any bias would be illegal.

 

Of course this would never happen as it would be a fairer world and as such the superich would be poorer and the middle class would be poorer as well.

 

Its much more fashionable to just follow nazi policies and remove the unfit out of existance. They dont care if any of us work or not, if a job is made available it will get filled regardless of what happens to us. They just want us of the benefit system to save money for taxpayers. But this is ultimately a anti growth policy and as such taxpayers will be a dwindling number as well as average wages falling as well meaning its not a fix for any deficit as tax income drops.

 

Labour probably dont dare support social security as its now toxic, out of the well known media outlets, only the guardian reports fairly on it, the rest all have bias. Labour care more about getting in power than their original true values. Kinnock couldnt get elected been honest.

[Nystagmite]

if they're cutting welfare, they should start with MPs expenses.

[gazmix]

Are the cuts to welfare only focused on under 25's & those on JSA?, What about people on ESA/disability & over 35?

[estellyn]

George Osborne asks what is fair about a shift worker getting up in the morning and looking at the closed curtains of a neighbour who is "sleeping off a life on benefits".

 

Talk about assumptions. Maybe the neighbour is working but on a late shift or a night shift. Maybe the neighbour has been sick all night, and is now finally sleeping. Maybe like me, they keep their front curtains closed because of no front garden, house opens onto the street and nosy neighbours!!!!

[Nystagmite]

I don't ever remember my parents being in jobs 9-5. Both are currently night workers.

[MARTIN3030]

Nick Clegg has said today that none of these proposals have been agreed.

 

http://www.markpack.org.uk/35670/clegg-no-deal-done-to-cut-welfare/

[worried33]

Are the cuts to welfare only focused on under 25's & those on JSA?, What about people on ESA/disability & over 35?

 

they not going to get 10 billion from hardening HB for under 25s, so probably no.

[debt4get]

of course nick has....but he will rollover and accept them no matter what, he knows that a GE now will leave his next party conference being held in a phone box on brighton seafront, he has put himself and his party into an impossible position, i dont feel sorry for him or his libdem mp's who have backed up this right wing junta, and they will get what they deserve come the next GE

however, it does leave the voting public with a real dilemma, do we vote red tory, or blue tory? the choice of either leaves me cold..

we need a complete seachange in politics, politicians who are career politicians need to go, we need someone and a party that is going to look after the whole electorate, personally i no longer much care who is power as long they can sort out the problems, bring growth and jobs back to the economy, but this is going to take 20 years or more, and no politician of any of the major parties would want to look or be seen to act over these type of timescales

[MARTIN3030]

Just listening to IDS (WAP minister) speaking at conference.

He said that people coming from Eurozone were entitled to claim benefits and not subject to the tests.

He says changes to the tests would cost £155m and the Gov were not prepared to do it.He indicated this entitlement will be stopped.

Seems they are going to be taking the EU Courts head on.

I was reading yesterday about their plans to introduce visas for selected EU countries-which goes against the principles of EU.

[estellyn]

We need a new party to represent the poor and working classes.

[Nystagmite]

What are UKIP & Green Party like when it comes to welfare?

[debt4get]

Are the cuts to welfare only focused on under 25's & those on JSA?, What about people on ESA/disability & over 35?

oh don't worry they will have something to say about that as well, just by targeting the under 25's is not going to reduce the budget, expect more cuts to ESA/disability and over 25's, it looks like they are going to target families with more than 1 child, as reports suggest that having more than one on benefits 'is unfair, and a lifestyle choice that is funded by hard-working taxpayers' this is going to get a damned sight worse before it ever, (and that is if it ever does) get better.

you will notice that there is nothing coming from Labour about these cuts, as welfare is a toxic topic for them...people perceive that everyone on benefits are 'living the life of riley' yet the evidence for this is hardly ever there...Labour would be accused immediately if they entered into this opposing it as 'see all they are going to do is increase your taxes to pay for these layabouts'

if you look at opinion polls or the postings that appear on BBC there is a tremendous amount of people who readily believe this tripe, labour were even courted by mastercard at their party conference to look at paying benefit claims via their card which would only buy 'essentials' and would block any payments perceived as 'not necessary' eg cigs, beer, etc... of course, mastercard forgot to mention the millions of public money they would be able to 'hoover up' if this scheme were introduced...labour mp's were looking closely at the scheme should they be given the opportunity to 'govern' after the next GE

[debt4get]

What are UKIP & Green Party like when it comes to welfare?

ukip are simply ultra right wing tories, whilst the green party are off with the fairies, and would no doubt have a policy such as 'unemployed would be unable to claim unless they spent 20 hours hugging a tree a day' there are no options...the best course of action i think is to vote for none of them..it only encourages them...however, that would take the whole of the uk not to vote cos the moment someone put a single cross on the paper, they would say 'see we have a majority mandate to rule'

[estellyn]

What are UKIP & Green Party like when it comes to welfare?

 

green party

 

Citizens' Income

 

EC730 A Citizen's Income sufficient to cover an individual's basic needs will be introduced, which will replace tax-free allowances and most social security benefits (see EC711). A Citizen's Income is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income payable to each individual as a right of citizenship. It will not be subject to means testing and there will be no requirement to be either working or actively seeking work.

EC731 The Citizens' Income will eliminate the unemployment and poverty traps, as well as acting as a safety net to enable people to choose their own types and patterns of work (See EC400). The Citizens' Income scheme will thus enable the welfare state to develop towards a welfare community, engaging people in personally satisfying and socially useful work.

EC732 When the Citizens' Income is introduced it is intended that nobody will be in a position that they will receive less through the scheme than they were entitled to under the previous benefits system. Children will be entitled to a reduced amount which will be payable to a parent or legal guardian. People with disabilities or special needs, and single parents will receive a supplement.

EC733 Initially, the housing benefit system will remain in place alongside the Citizens' Income and will be extended to cover contributions towards mortgage repayments (see HO602). This will subsequently be reviewed to establish how housing benefit could be incorporated into the Citizen's Income, taking into account the differences in housing costs between different parts of the country and different types of housing.

[estellyn]

ukip

 

http://www.ukip.org/content/ukip-policies/1408-welfare-ukip-policy

[Nystagmite]

Thank you

[debt4get]

green party

 

Citizens' Income

 

EC730 A Citizen's Income sufficient to cover an individual's basic needs will be introduced, which will replace tax-free allowances and most social security benefits (see EC711). A Citizen's Income is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income payable to each individual as a right of citizenship. It will not be subject to means testing and there will be no requirement to be either working or actively seeking work.

EC731 The Citizens' Income will eliminate the unemployment and poverty traps, as well as acting as a safety net to enable people to choose their own types and patterns of work (See EC400). The Citizens' Income scheme will thus enable the welfare state to develop towards a welfare community, engaging people in personally satisfying and socially useful work.

EC732 When the Citizens' Income is introduced it is intended that nobody will be in a position that they will receive less through the scheme than they were entitled to under the previous benefits system. Children will be entitled to a reduced amount which will be payable to a parent or legal guardian. People with disabilities or special needs, and single parents will receive a supplement.

EC733 Initially, the housing benefit system will remain in place alongside the Citizens' Income and will be extended to cover contributions towards mortgage repayments (see HO602). This will subsequently be reviewed to establish how housing benefit could be incorporated into the Citizen's Income, taking into account the differences in housing costs between different parts of the country and different types of housing.

a citizens income! payable whether you are working or not? and how much will it cost? i dont mean to be funny but this is cloud cuckoo land policies...in fact it almost sounds like a communist manifesto, where everybody is the same...paid whether you are in work or not, people able to choose their own types of and patterns of work...HB extended to cover contributions towards mortgage repayments, it sounds good but it is fantasy land politics

[debt4get]

ukip policies sound like just another take on 'universal credit', workfare schemes for people with HB and the unemployed...com'n guys there is nothing there just more right wing conservative rubbish with a blame everything on the eu policy

[worried33]

Just listening to IDS (WAP minister) speaking at conference.

He said that people coming from Eurozone were entitled to claim benefits and not subject to the tests.

He says changes to the tests would cost £155m and the Gov were not prepared to do it.He indicated this entitlement will be stopped.

Seems they are going to be taking the EU Courts head on.

I was reading yesterday about their plans to introduce visas for selected EU countries-which goes against the principles of EU.

 

yes they clearly not scared to breach various laws and international agreements, this one will be interesting.