Manpower/reed/Hayes - my various employment woes

[caledfwlch]

Surely Holiday Pay is "legally protected" like Minimum Wage for example. I would not be surprised if this was classed as an unlawful deduction, I thought one could not normally waive statutory rights even if one signs a contract to that effect?

[lbruk]

Whether you give notice or end with no notice you are completely entitled to any accrued holiday pay. Every employee in the UK are entitled to 29 days holiday a year, this figure includes all bank holidays, if you work on a five day week basis. Or on a pro-rata basis if you work less than five days.

 

So you need to know how many days you are owed, how many you have taken, and the difference is owed to you. Simples.

[JOHNINYORK]

Layla.

It might be a bit too late to help you,but this is from the Manpower Employee Handbook.

 

HOLIDAYS...

In the event that you are dismissed for gross misconduct your entitlement to accrued holiday (if any) shall be the fixed amount of £10.

You may be required to use any outstanding holiday entitlement during your notice period.

 

TERMINATION...

After 4 weeks and up to 2 years continuous service-one weeks notice.

After 2 years continuous service-one week for each completed year of service up to a maximum of 12 weeks notice.

After 4 weeks continuous service you are required to give the Company at least one weeks notice before you cease to be available for work.This may be waived in exceptional circumstances.

 

So,the only time that they will pay £10 holiday payment,is if you get dismissed for gross misconduct.But if you do not work your notice,would that be classed as gross misconduct.

Your employment at the bank maybe finishing in 2 months time,but not your employment with Manpower.

 

 

Regards,John.

Edited May 21, 2012 by JOHNINYORK

[elche]

Whether you give notice or end with no notice you are completely entitled to any accrued holiday pay. .So you need to know how many days you are owed, how many you have taken, and the difference is owed to you. Simples.

 

Have to agree with Ibruk above (although 28 days is more likely).

 

BUT that aside, (and ignoring arguments about carry forward of holiday from one year to the next), you can only ever lose accrued statutory holiday upon termination if you commit a repudiatory breach of contract i.e. gross misconduct. Failing to give notice is a breach but not a sufficiently serious breach as to be repudiatory.

 

The label your employer puts on your actions is not definitive.

 

For example they could say being late 5 mins is GM and as such you are dismissed w/o any accrued holiday or notice.

 

That would be a ludicrous argument and not one you could defend in ET. You should chase Manpower for this money. It appears you are owed it!

[caledfwlch]

Have to agree with Ibruk above (although 28 days is more likely).

 

BUT that aside, (and ignoring arguments about carry forward of holiday from one year to the next), you can only ever lose accrued statutory holiday upon termination if you commit a repudiatory breach of contract i.e. gross misconduct. Failing to give notice is a breach but not a sufficiently serious breach as to be repudiatory.

 

The label your employer puts on your actions is not definitive.

 

For example they could say being late 5 mins is GM and as such you are dismissed w/o any accrued holiday or notice.

 

That would be a ludicrous argument and not one you could defend in ET. You should chase Manpower for this money. It appears you are owed it!

 

From what I know, and from googling, Holiday Pay is the same as the Min Wage in how it is to be treated - ie, this is a statutory right which cannot be "given away" as an employee, we cannot waive the right to Minimum Wage and sign a contract accepting less just to get the job, and thus, in the same way, regardless of what you signed when you started, you cannot waive your right to earn and receive your holiday pay. AFAIK, if Manpower want compensation for the No Notice (and as a temping Agency they should be used to this and I can see a Judge throwing it out) then they are more than welcome to pursue the OP through the County Court for their perceived financial loss.

 

Withholding the Holiday pay, regardless of what the contract says, is unlawful deduction of wages, and the OP can go to either Tribunal, or I suspect, a County Court for a CCJ (to speed things up) and will almost certainly win. As another example - one cannot waive the right to EARN holiday pay.

 

Look how much trouble companies got into for claiming holiday pay was "included" in your hourly pay rate... Holiday Pay is a sacrosanct, protected unwaivable right, and the OP should stand up for their right.

[elche]

the OP should stand up for their right.

 

Which is what I said

 

But yes perhaps the repudiatory breach (which in any event was merely an example and has not happened on the facts here) would only mean an employee lost accrued contractual holiday pay i.e. any holidays above the statutory minimum ....... I mean redudiatory breaches can disentitle an employee to notice pay which is also a statutory right no? che will go away and think about this

 

But in any event we both agree that if this is statutory holiday entitlement then it cannot be lost merely for failing to give notice!

 

NB this would seem to answer this:

 

All employees are entitled to be paid in lieu of accrued holiday on termination of employment, irrespective of how that employment ends. As the right to paid holiday is a statutory one, an employee is still entitled to it even if their employment ends by reason of gross misconduct, without notice or payment in lieu

 

http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/2007/03/14/40532/minimum-holiday-entitlement-q.html

Edited May 21, 2012 by elche

[Purpleflowers 2]

I have a temp job and everyone was sent an email saying the company won't allow a change of hours as we all signed the contract and its fixed hours 2pm to 10pm.

 

however me and others are going back to college and uni next month and would like to request part time hours, which i know the company may well accept our request if its put in the correct wording in email.

 

can anyone help me with the text for the wording, i was thinking of

 

"please can i request part time hours as I am due to go back to college next month" - but this seems a bit short, anyone please help me with a good draft which sounds good and is solid

[Emmzzi]

you need to tell them *what* part time hours - how many you can work and when you are available. Or they may say "sure, 2 - 5pm" which I am guessing clashes with class?

 

I'd also add that you are good to do extra in holidays, as holiday cover may be attractive to them.

 

and I would only worry about making your OWN request look good - don't help other people. They may only have room for one part timer and you want it to be you...

[Sidewinder]

You should also certainly include the fact that you hugely enjoy working for the company and would love to be given the opportunity to continue to contribute to the business.

 

Along the lines of:-

 

Dear Sir,

 

As you may be aware, I am due to return to college on [DATE] which will naturally have an impact on my ability to fulfill my current working hours of 2-10pm. I am very keen to continue to work for [COMPANY NAME] however, and would be extremely grateful if you would consider a request for me to continue in a part time capacity. My schedule at college would allow me to work [HOURS] on [DAYS], and I would appreciate it if you could investigate the possibility of me working shifts around those times.

 

I have thoroughly enjoyed working for the company, and would love to continue to be a part of the business in whatever capacity you are able to offer. I would welcome the opportunity to discuss any proposals that you might have to allow me to remain in your employment.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

OK - the last bit might seem over the top, but I'm sure you get the point!

[Purpleflowers 2]

Sidewinder, i think that sounds fantastic:whoo:

 

I think you covered everything there, it sounds very persuasive indeed, luv u loads:hail:

[Purpleflowers 2]

I went and signed up with REED job agency in yorkshire and they gave me an evening job from 4pm to 11pm, this lasts until xmas.

 

I've been at the job since June but now I want to leave because the hours are not good, i did not think of this before, but now it will be getting darker earlier and its a long way to travel as well.

 

I've told the person at REED that gave me the contract that I want to leave and to apply for otherjobs - they have turned around and told me "........you must stick out your contract to the end..........you knew about the hours when you applied...................etc"

 

I am desperate to leave this place, the hours are unsociable..........I have been looking for other jobs and have been using the REED job web site, every single job that I have been applied for that is advertised by REED (which would have been given to me without doubt, if I was not working) I have been rejected, even the most basic of jobs, they have been rejecting me - i know the real reason why this is happening is because i want to leave the job I am at at moment and by rejecting me for all other jobs that I have been applying for - they feel this is the way they can drag me out to last the full term of the contract till xmas.

 

When I have spoken to other staff at the agency, they all say "......the job is taken or sorry your working at xyz place so we can't consider you"

 

My contract does not state that I am not allowed to apply for other jobs - its a temp job and people in tem jobs go from job to job, its a fact

 

What action can i take against REED - because they have been rejecting me for every job I have been applying for, the full staff at REED are all doing this and they have placed a note on the system to say - don't allow her to apply for jobs and reject her for all jobs

 

What can I do, I'm sure what REED are doing is against the law

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I went and signed up with REED job agency in yorkshire and they gave me an evening job from 4pm to 11pm, this lasts until xmas.

 

I've been at the job since June but now I want to leave because the hours are not good, i did not think of this before, but now it will be getting darker earlier and its a long way to travel as well.

 

I've told the person at REED that gave me the contract that I want to leave and to apply for otherjobs - they have turned around and told me "........you must stick out your contract to the end..........you knew about the hours when you applied...................etc"

 

I am desperate to leave this place, the hours are unsociable..........I have been looking for other jobs and have been using the REED job web site, every single job that I have been applied for that is advertised by REED (which would have been given to me without doubt, if I was not working) I have been rejected, even the most basic of jobs, they have been rejecting me - i know the real reason why this is happening is because i want to leave the job I am at at moment and by rejecting me for all other jobs that I have been applying for - they feel this is the way they can drag me out to last the full term of the contract till xmas.

 

When I have spoken to other staff at the agency, they all say "......the job is taken or sorry your working at xyz place so we can't consider you"

 

My contract does not state that I am not allowed to apply for other jobs - its a temp job and people in tem jobs go from job to job, its a fact

 

What action can i take against REED - because they have been rejecting me for every job I have been applying for, the full staff at REED are all doing this and they have placed a note on the system to say - don't allow her to apply for jobs and reject her for all jobs

 

What can I do, I'm sure what REED are doing is against the law

You can hand in your notice, as with every other job, and unless the employer is prepared to release you early, you will have to work out your notice. However, unless there is a penalty clause in the Contract (read the small print), there is no financial redress which Reed may take against you.

[Purpleflowers 2]

I know I can hand in my notice anytime, but REED are simply rejecting every single job application that I am applying for other jobs because I want to leave the present job they have given me, they have told me I have to work out my notice BUT my friends that are also employed with them are applying for other jobs through REED and they don't have the same problems as me - with REED staff rejecting all my applications and fobbing me off over the telephone.

 

How can REED possible take financial redress against me, its a temp jobs and people in temp jobs move from job to job when they want to if they are fed up with the job they are in

 

REED are doing this to me on purpose because all they are concerned about is their bonus - if someone lasts the full term of the contract and nothing else

[altobelli]

Can you apply for jobs with other agencies?

[Purpleflowers 2]

I can apply for jobs with other agencies, but the ones I am applying for with REED - the whole entire staff are fobbing me off and rejecting me for every single job, whereas my friends are not having the same problem with them and they work with me in the same job!

 

REED are telling me to stick the contract out or resign and they will THEN consider me for other jobs I apply for - surely this is illegal

[altobelli]

They can't force you to work longer than your notice period, but the problem is that they can argue that you took the job on the understanding that it was until Christmas, so if you leave now they could argue that you might not see through another contract if they place you soemwhere else. It could well be that if you resign and are on the market they'll let you apply for other jobs, but the only way to know would be to resign, and it would be better to get another contract lined up before doing that.

 

Maybe the jobs you're looking at are not being handled exclusively by Reed - Hays, Michael Page, etc., may be advertising the same jobs.

[becky2585]

If you're leaving before the end of the contract, they may blacklist you as being unreliable. Unless they're discriminating, I don't see there's much you can do.

 

If you're working at one placement, and you were expected to stay for the duration, you cant reasonably expect them to find you another place before the contract expires. Or have I misunderstood?

[assisted blonde]

They dont have to offer you any work if they dont want to, go to another agency

[Emmzzi]

I think they have a fair point, you are renaging on your commitment to them and how do they know you won't do the same at another company? it is their reputation as well as yours that you are tarnishing.

 

For the sake of what, 16 weeks or so, I would stick it out. Not their fault you did not plan ahead.

[Pusillanimous]

You have signed a contract, and that is legally binding. However, Reed's treatment of you appears unfair, as they could easily replace you in these times of high unemployment, especially as you are very unhappy.

 

I would write a polite letter direct to Reed's CEO explaining your complaint and ask whether Reed is part of a regulatory body (for recruitment agencies) and state you will take it up with them if they continue to sanction you, all because of a reasonable request. You could ask to have the detrimental note about you - that no-one at Reed should deal with you - removed from the files.

[Emmzzi]

 

REED are doing this to me on purpose because all they are concerned about is their bonus - if someone lasts the full term of the contract and nothing else

 

They are a business, not a welfare organisation - what would you expect them to be concerned about? Their first, last and only concern is how to keep the person who pays them happy. That'd be the company you are working at.

[Emmzzi]

 

I would write a polite letter direct to Reed's CEO explaining your complaint and ask whether Reed is part of a regulatory body (for recruitment agencies) and state you will take it up with them if they continue to sanction you, all because of a reasonable request.

 

In honesty I think that is a shallow threat (about the regulatory body) as Reed are doing nothing wrong here. If anything escalating the complaint will cause OP more trouble. After all, presumably they will need another job when this one ends. I honestly would let sleeping dogs lie.

[altobelli]

I can see both sides here. Yes, the recruitment industry focusses too much on what they see as their 'clients', the fee payers rather than the fee earners, and yes, if they can accomodate you they should do so. If they have placed a note on their systems to say they won't deal with you then this is wrong and they should remove it.

 

However, from their point of view they placed you in a contract until Christmas, and the conditions, i.e. working hours, were known at the time. Imagine if it was the other way round and the company or the agency stopped the contract when you were counting on work until Christmas.

 

You could complain to either the Recruitment and Employment Confederation or the Employment Agency Standards Inspectorate, but I think if you are going to complain you should raise it with Reed and ask that you be given due consideration for any roles which might come up.

 

Practically though, my advice would be not to complain, stay in the job in the meantime as its not too long until Christmas, and if you are really keen to move before that then apply for jobs with other agencies.

[Emmzzi]

There seems to be no evidence that there is a note on the file. OP has assumed there is. I expect it just says she is in a contract until... andd ass soon as that contract is finished all will be well.

[altobelli]

Possibly - Layla_83, have they actually told you they have placed a note on the system?