Enforcing a CCJ against my landlord

[id330uk]

My compensation order is for civil harassment and costs and the debtor is my former neighbour. The compensation order of the other creditor should be for rent arrears and costs and it is the debtor's former landlord

 

If me and the other creditor we do the enforcement proceedings together we are both defendants and in this case maybe can share information

[unclebulgaria67]

My compensation order is for civil harassment and costs and the debtor is my former neighbour. The compensation order of the other creditor should be for rent arrears and costs and it is the debtor's former landlord

 

If me and the other creditor we do the enforcement proceedings together we are both defendants and in this case maybe can share information

 

In this situation, I don't think you can bring any joint action. (instinct, not informed opinion).

 

I suggest that you go back to the court and ask them what actions you may take to enforce the compensation order.

[id330uk]

I found out that in case the data controller does not have the consent of the date subject to release personal data to a third party it is upto the data controller to decide whether or not it is reasonable to disclose the personal data.

 

I found out also that there is a duty not to release personal data only if there is a duty of confidentiality due to a relationship like for example employer/employer, doctor/patient, solicitor/client or bank/customer

 

I found out that a mean to get access to personal data about someone else is not to be a third party for example by being the employee of the data controller

[unclebulgaria67]

I think this whole DPA issue is a red herring. Neither of you is registered under the DPA to handle data and therefore it does not apply to you. The DPA relates to people/organisations that need to handle the data of third parties to be able to function.

 

This is a private dispute between neighbours and a landlord. You have involved the courts and have won a compensation order. You are NOT a creditor of the person who owes you money in the normal sense, but they are in breach of a court order. Both you and the landlord, will need to go back to the court to seeks ways to enforce the order.

 

Do not be tempted to start taking any actions yourself directly or jointly with the landlord. You could end up getting a Police warning for criminal harassment. The only way to resolve the money outstanding, is to use the court. i.e you might decide to employ bailiffs or ask the court to make an attachment to earnings/benefits order to obtain the money owing.

[id330uk]

One of the advantages of hiring a HCEO instead of a County Court Bailiff

was that the HCEO did not have the obligation to give advance warning to the debtor of his arrival.

 

However this advantage is lost when the HCEO leaves the paperwork at the property of the debtors when he make an attendance.

 

Hence I would like to know if the HCEO had to leave the paperwork each time he makes an attendance

or he has to do this only when he seizes goods.

 

Usually HCEO makes a maximum of three visits.

 

Hence I would like to know if a HCEO can leave the paperwork at the property of the debtor only during his last visit

so that he can keep the advantage of the surprise the longer possible

 

I think that there has been a change in law recently and that now the HCEO like the County Court Bailiff

has to give advance warning of his arrival but my query concern the regulations before this change in law

[HCEOs]

All enforcement agents should leave paperwork (Form 55 or Notice of taking control of goods) at a property when an attendance is made. This will detail any goods seized and charges made for the attendance.

 

As of 6th April 2014 all HCEOs are required to send a Notice of Enforcement giving the debtor 7 clear days to make payment before an actual visit is made.

[id330uk]

The form 55 is a notice of seizure what means that something has been seized.

 

However I would like to know which law forces the HECO to leave the paperwork at the property of the debtor at each attendance even if no goods have been seized.

 

[HCEOs]

Part of the issue is with the original wording of the Form 55 which in it's opening lines stated that goods at the property were now in the custody of the enforcement officer. This blanket seizure (a levy of part - Cole v Davies 1698) was further supported by the addition of items in the inventory which again stated that the goods seized are referred to at point 2 (everything at the address) and the additional listed items were included in the seizure. All of this combined with the fact that charges were made for attending means that a Notice has to be left.

[lookinforinfo]

I am unsure totally how HCEOs charged for their goods seized and visits/distance travelled etc under the old legislation.

 

However if they were able to charge for visits made and/or distance travelled, then they would need to leave notice of the fees incurred as proof of their visit in situations

where they had been unable to make contact with the debtor and levy on their goods.

Were any charges incurred during any of their visits where they were unable to seize goods, I am pretty sure that legislation dictates that the debtor should be advised at the

time the fees are incurred.

If I am wrong then HCEOs will put me straight.

[id330uk]

I have found out that in Schedule 3 of The High Court Enforcement Officers Regulations 2004 it is stated the following

 

2. Mileage

 

Mileage from the enforcement officer's business address to the place of execution and return, in respect of one journey to seize goods and, if appropriate, one journey to remove the goods

 

29.2 pence per mile, up to a maximum of £50.00 in total

 

Hence according to this piece of legislation a HCEO cannot charge for all the attendance he makes.

Hence if he has really a legal obligation to leave the paperwork each time he makes an attendance even if he does not seize any goods this should be stated in another piece of legislation or an act of parliament and it will good to know which

 

It is important to keep the advantage of the surprise for the maximum of time possible because the debtor can lock his front door, lock his back door, lock the door of his garden or of his garage and remove goods from the property or park their car far away or change the ownership of their car if they know that a HCEO will come

 

An HCEO can climb fence, enter through unlock door etc. but not all do this and a lot do only a minimum effort because anyway they know that they can charge an abortive fee of £72 which is higher than the maximum £50 to which I made reference above

 

Hence to be certain we need to know which act of parliament forces the HCEO to leave the paperwork each time he makes an attendance even when he does not seize any goods.

 

[HCEOs]

id330uk, you will find that almost all HCEOs charged a variety of fees under Fee 12 of the regulations you quote. Indeed, it was accepted by the Masters that a fee for attendance to a premises was chargeable. Other fees in the regulations may also have been charged for making enquiries etc.

 

As most on here will testify an HCEOs fees when successful far outweigh abortive fee of £60 plus VAT. It is not uncommon for the fees to be at least £600 plus another 7.5% of the debt.

 

As I've already stated, and lookinforinfo is right too, paperwork must be left on each attendance where goods are seized or a fee is charged.

 

I'm pretty sure this was detailed in the old National Standards too.

[HCEOs]

It is clear that you have instructed an HCEO and feel that by them leaving the Form 55 your chances of recovery have been diminished.

 

I would suggest you spend a little bit of time getting as much info on your debtor as possible. Find out what car they drive, where they work etc. Once you have this information then contact the HCEO and ask that they reopen your case. If they think there is a chance they will get paid their enforcement fees rather than the £60 abortive fee then they may well start over.

 

Remember HCEOs are not miracle workers, especially if the enforcement address is residential. It may be that other methods of enforcement suit your case better.

[id330uk]

The other fees could be also charged only once irrespectively of how many attendances have been made

In some cases the HCEO should already have some idea of how much they can recover from a specific property and whether or not it could be more or less than the £72 abortive fee

 

HCEO are not miracle workers but nevertheless they can do more or less efforts according to how much they expect to recover from a specific property. They can for example enter in a house by the back door which is often unlocked after having entered in the garden through a gate which could be unlocked or by jumping it.

 

I still not know the law which may force the HCEO to leave the paperwork at the property of the debtor each time he makes an attendance even if he does not seize any goods.

 

As long as we do not have this information we can be sure of nothing

 

[welsh1]

I would have thought he left paperwork for the simple reason that the debt changes on every visit,because there is interest being charged on a daily basis,and it would be common sense to leave paperwork so when the debt is paid the right amount is paid.

[id330uk]

It is well known that the interest in a county court judgement is 8% without the need of leaving any paperwork at the property.

All this is assumption and as long as we do not know the law precisely we can be sure of nothing.

Very often people do things by habit but what matters is the law

[ploddertom]

If you can give us more of the history behind this then we may be able to offer further advice.

[id330uk]

I have hired a HCEO and I am not sure he has done his best and I am wondering if I have to pay the abortive fee. And I need to know the law about whether or not a HECO is forced to leave the paperwork at the property of the debtor each time he makes an attendance even when he does not seize any goods because by doing so he losts the advantage of surprise

[ploddertom]

HCEOs Post No 8 is a good guide as to how you should have started this. It is beneficial to give your chosen Officer as much info as possible upon instructing them. In my view there is only a need to leave paperwork when there is a charge to be made, for High Court work this is on most ocassions as they usually do charge separately for each visit on top of the "normal" fees. Since April 6 however there has been a change whereby they have to write first so forewarning is given.

 

There is never any guarantee that monies can be recovered as there are those who are "expert" at avoiding paying and if it is for a residential address then all they have to do is to deny the Officer entry.

[id330uk]

In my post 6 I explained that a HCEO can charge mileage only once when he seizes the goods and when he takes them away if applicable

 

A HCEO can gain access to a property even if the debtor denies him entry for example by jumping a fence and entering in the property by a back door which could be unlocked.

 

Obviously on condition that the advantage of surprise has not been lost. Most of HCEO must be reluctant to do this even if it is their job because of the risk of being mistaken for a burglar.

 

There is a lot of debate about how much force could be used against a burglar (without forgetting any possible rottweiler). A HCEO could do this only if he thinks that there are enough valuable goods which are worth taking such risk.

 

I still not know the law which may force a HCEO to leave the paperwork at the property of a debtor each time he makes an attendance even if he does not seize any goods and it is what matters

 

[ploddertom]

There is no law as such, best practice is to do it & guidelines or code of practice may also suggest this. It's no good going on about the Milegae charges etc as these are fixed, it is more about the Misc fees they charge which are not and can be variable and are usually challenged. I assume you have already read the National Standards for Enforcement Agents 2014 - link in Stickies - in regard to Creditors responsibilities.

[tomtubby]

Are you able to say which company you instructed to recover the debt?

[HCEOs]

id330uk, you are again confused by the fees. As I and ploddertom have said HCEOs will charge for each visit under Fee 12 (miscellaneous). Other charges are likely to apply which could be for making enquiries or DVLA vehicle checks. I do not believe there is a specific law but as ploddertom says it comes down to good practice and guidelines.

 

As I have already explained, it is always in the interest of the HCEO to recover their fees from the debtor as these will hugely outweigh the £60 abortive. This abortive fee will not even cover the costs incurred by the HCEO.

 

However, if your debtor lives in a residential property, has little goods to seize and no vehicle then the job of the HCEO can be difficult. This isn't to say that they won't get paid as the threat of removal will often see a payment arrangement being made. If the HCEO has visited at least 3 times and there is no prospect of payment then the case is usually aborted. If this is the case, it may be that you should look at other options of enforcement instead in your matter.

[tomtubby]

Very well explained HCEO !!!

[id330uk]

According to the law what matter is what is stated in the acts of parliament and not the alleged good practice and guidelines especially if they cost efficiency because of the loss of the advantage of surprise.

 

Miscellaneous charge may vary but could be charged only once irrespectively of how many attendances have been made

I suppose that HCEO is himself a HCEO

 

For a question of confidentiality I prefer not say which company I have hired. Moreover this is irrelevant because I think that all companies behave in the same way

 

[HCEOs]

Miscellaneous charge may vary but could be charged only once irrespectively of how many attendances have been made

 

Miscellaneous charges can be and are regularly charged more than once (although not under the new regulations).

 

As already stated, an HCEO will charge a fee for each attendance. Accordingly, paperwork is left on each occasion.

 

If you are that dissatisfied with the HCEOs actions you should complain to them in the first instance and if still dissatisfied to the HCEOA.