AG, Wescot/Phoenix/britannica...- shop direct debt **WON £50 compo**

[Ricky68]

Looks like I have joined a forever-growing band of innocent people targeted by money-grabbers.

 

Received a letter from Arrow Global telling me that Phoenix Recoveries (UK) had assigned all its rights etc. to Arrow Global Guernsey and that I owed £502.17 to Shop Direct Group under account no xxxxxxxxx. Further I was to reply to pay Wescot Credit Services on a PO Box number in Hull. Yea sure I'm about to do that!

 

A basic flaw in all this is I don't owe anybody anything, have never had any credit from/with Shop Direct Group (basically Littlewoods I believe) have not signed any credit agreement for many years, certainly in excess of 6 years.

 

My instinct (supported by comments on this website thank you) is to bin it and not make any contact with any of them. Then I think that IF my identity has been stolen and others are buying in my name, then I need to know.

 

A recent credit check on my name showed "all clear"

 

At the end of the day i would like to give Arrow Global et al a bloody nose for trying to scare people like this, so any

advice or comments would be gratefully received

 

Ricky

[rebel11]

Hi Ricky

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Please let us know how your problem has been resolved, it could help fellow Caggers.

 

Thread has been moved to the correct forum.

[renegadeimp]

Have you checked all 3 credit agencies?

 

Send them the prove it letter or if you dont want to waste money on dealing with them, simply ignore it.

 

As youve seen, its a fishing trip probably on a very old and long dead debt.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

OK send the following to Westcott and Arrow addressed to their compliance managers.

 

Ref: xxxxxxx

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I refer to your letter dated in which you allege there is debt for £ xxxxxx owed to shopdirect,

Pleasse take note I have no knowledge of ant such debt and do not acknowledge any debt

to Arrow Global.

 

I am sure I do not have to remind you of the OFT Guidance 2003/2011 and the sections

regarding contacting persons when you do not know if they are the debtor.

Section 3.9 (e)Deceptive and or unfair practices states '' Sending demands for

paymeny, by any means to an individual when it is uncertain whether he is the

actual debtor''., Also section 3.9 (j) will no doubt apply when you receive tihis

letter and note the following , I am not now nor ever have been a customer of shopdirect.

This section states Requiring an individual to prove he is not the debtor who owes the outstanding debt.

Also requiring an individual to furnish proof to establish he is not the debtor by procucing his driving licence

or a copy of hs signatute.

 

Given the above I now consider the matter closed.

Send RD to Arrow and Westcott.

[oleg]

Everyone has their own chosen tactic. I ignore all such letters for three reasons.

1 If you write back, they start a dialogue and you get sucked in.

2 If you don't write back, they don't have much to go on, they're left guessing.

3 I love them to waste their time and money.

They will almost certainly do nothing other than send you a series of idiotic threatening letters.

Do not bin them. Save them all if you want to complain, report them later, as you probably should, both for your own satisfaction and as an act of civic duty.

Weescat are as wee as they come, believe me. They will soon send you a letter or two from their own offices on their own machines pretending to be solicitors Nelson Guest - in violation of multiple rules and protocols. You can throw a lot of scat back at them later if you so feel inclined, just let the material evidence build up first.

Have fun, Ricky!

.

[Ricky68]

Thank you all for your very clear advice

 

My immediate temptation in the short term is to try oleg's tactic and see how long it takes for them to hang themselves.

 

Will most certainly keep all correspondence as you recommend, ready for the judgement day.

 

I wonder if they read this website?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I would be inclined not to leave this given the companies involved,

the decision is yours of course.

[oleg]

Ricky yes all major DCAs monitor this and other consumer websites.

For your information Arrow purchase debts but farm out most collecting to DCAs. Check out their website and other threads here about them.

Don't lose sleep over Wescot. The very very worst that could happen is they take you to court, you demand proof the debt's yours and if it isn't, you'll emerge Wescot-free. But court is highly unlikely, especially for such a small amount.

Wescot have hounded me 9 times for purported debts ranging from peanuts to 6 figures and my strategy of not responding works a treat.

When i.ve reached statute barred status on all my debts I intend to rent my revenge.

I thought I'd run out of patience but no, I.m kind of enjoying the pantomine as I get tossed from one bunch of morons to the next.

[Ricky68]

Well after much thought I did decide to send a rebuttal to Arrow Global on 17 July formally advising them this matter was DISPUTED and setting out the rules governing disputed items. I copied the letter to Wescot Credit Services.

 

4 weeks later I received a reply from Wescot (not Arrow) acknowledging that I have " raised a query on this account" (their words not mine), confirming they will suspend all collection activity whilst the mater is under investigation and advising that such investigation may take several weeks.

 

Up to them how they waste their time and money.

[Ricky68]

Latest in this saga is this morning a letter arrived from Arrow Global (Manchester office this time) entitled "New Address"

 

Quote" We contacted you recently in regard to the new address you have provided and are awaiting proof before we can address your enquiry.

Under the Data Protection Act 1998 we are required to verify this address, therefore we would appreciate it if you could provide us with two of the following". (Then follows a list of documentation.)

 

My comments:

1. The only letter I have sent them is notice that there claim is DISPUTED

2. I understood that they are not at liberty to write to me unless/until they prove the debt is mine (which that can't 'cos it isn't)

3. What are they talking about re Data Protection Act?

 

My temptation is to ignore it.

[renegadeimp]

Dont confirm it. It's another way of them trying to get you to answer their "security questions".

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Re send the letter in post 4#

[Ricky68]

It is now nearly 5 months since I sent Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd the excellent letter recommended by you telling them that the matter is disputed. With the exception of their acknowledgement of that letter and a further letter in October trying to get me to confirm address and stuff (which I ignored) they have been silent. However experience of others tells me that is not enough for me to assume that the matter is closed.

 

My letter concluded "I await your rapid written confirmation that this matter is now closed".

 

Questions:

Should I be reminding them of this and ask again for that confirmation?

Should I be seeking recompense for worry and stress caused by their actions?

 

Thanks Ricky

[renegadeimp]

it is very rare that arrow respond like that. Normally they just bin the debt, or sell it on and never inform you.

 

Do NOT contact them about any confirmation. Should any creditor try to contact you about the debt, you cna ignore it, as its now clearly unenforceable, or you can tell them the debt is still in legal dispute with arrow and they can bugger off.

 

Again, dont contact them. Just get on with your life now. Regaring recompense, its very very doubtful youll get anywhere with that idea. 5 months have passed now with no contact. With the experience we have with arrow on here, its best to take it as theyve ended involvement.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Keep all letter yours and theirs safe just in case this surfaces again.

[Ricky68]

Thank you Gentlemen; your help and advice has been invaluable

Please point me to the bit where I can make a small donation to your Website for the benefit of others

Long may you be here!

[renegadeimp]

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/paypal.php?go=donate

[Ricky68]

Well your thoughts that this might surface again were well founded. I now have a new player in the form of Phillips & Cohen Associates (UK) Ltd of Exchange Quay, Manchester writing to me. This is 19 months after I wrote to Arrow and told them the debt was in dispute.

 

They cite in their letter that their client is Britannica Recoveries S.a r.l - Arrow and the original creditor is Additions Direct (whom I have never heard of). The sum involved remains the same £502.17

 

It would therefore seem that either Britannica Recovery and/or Philips &Cohen are part of the Arrow Group or Arrow have sold the issue on despite knowing it is in dispute. Either way they are totally out of order and I want blood.

 

So apart from submitting the facts to Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading and the Credit Services Association I also wish to complain that they appear to have sold on this debt with the knowledge it is disputed and seek guidance as to who this complaint should be addressed to.

 

Thanks

 

Ricky

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Ok: A copy of the letter in post 4#

Plus a follow up to P&C as follows.

 

 

Ref: use theirs:

 

 

Dear Cur or madman,

 

 

I refer to your letter dated xx.xx.xxxx regarding an alleged debt originating from an account with Additions.

 

 

Please find attached a copy of my letter to Arrow Global/Wescot Credit Services regarding this alleged account.

 

 

Please take note I do not acknowledge any debt to your client, furthermore I am not now nor have I ever been a customer of additions and the alleged debt is totally refuted.

 

 

I suggest that Phillips & Cohen close the file on this matter and returns it to its client.

 

 

You are reminded if the OFT Guidance on Debt Collection and the sections regarding pursuing an individual when it is unsure that he is the actual debtor who owes an outstanding debt, and requiring an individual to prove that he is not the debtor.

 

 

This is my final response.

 

 

Recorded signed for post check receipt.

Copies to Debt Collection Team OFT.

[AndyOrch]

Additions Direct could be various catalogue companies ...Littlewoods/Freemans/Shop Direct/Very..

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Ricky68]

Thanks

 

Love the address of Dear Cur or madman

Will follow the advice re Phillips & Cohen but also feel it is time Arrow/Wescot were taken to task

What do you think of this draft:

 

This is a formal complaint lodged against Arrow Global Guernsey Ltd. and Wescot Credit Services Ltd.

I refer to your various letters commencing June 2012 and culminating in letter from Phillips & Cohen dated 5th February 2014 all of which falsely claim I owe £502.17.

I wrote to both Arrow Global and Wescot Credit Services on 17th July 2012 by recorded delivery informing them that I do not recognise the debt and it is therefore DISPUTED (copy attached).

Wescot Credit Services wrote to me on 10th August 2012 acknowledging my letter, advising that it will be investigated and confirming that all collection activities will be suspended. They advised that they would contact me again on conclusion of their investigation, something they singularly failed to do. No correspondence has ever been received from either Arrow Global or Wescot Credit Services since then.

The fact that Phillips & Cohen Associates have now written to be on 5th February 2014 renewing the same tired old nonsense indicates that either Phillips & Cohen Associates are part of (or are acting on behalf of) Arrow Global or Wescot Credit Services or that Arrow Global and/or Wescot Credit Services have sold the alleged debt on to Phillips & Cohen Associates even though they knew it to be disputed.

A formal complaint against Arrow Global and Wescot Credit Services is being lodged with the Credit Services Association as I believe at least one of those two companies to be in breach of their obligations under CSA’s Code of Practice. Complaints will also be lodged with Trading Standards and possibly, depending on the response to this complaint from Arrow Global and Wescot Credit Services, the F.O.S.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Fine Ricky.

56 days to reply and issue a final response, 56 days start day received us recorded signed for and check receipt.

[Ricky68]

Thanks again for all the advice

 

Will keep you posted on events!

 

Regards

[Ricky68]

The more I thought about all this yesterday, the madder I got. These people and their “scatter-gun” approach to sending out their ridiculous claims for money regardless of whether they are realistic or ethical really do make me very cross indeed and they should not be allowed to just get away with it. So I thought “Well two can play at the scatter-gun approach”.

So far I have issued 6 letters:

 

Formal complaints to both Arrow Global Guernsey and Wescot Credit Services giving them 56 days to respond before referring to FSA

 

Written to Phillips & Cohen Associates as suggested by the Brigadier

 

Issued a full report of events to the Credit Services Association

 

Issued a full report to the Debt Collection Team at the Office of Fair Trading

 

Written to Shop Direct Group asking them to establish where the errors originally occurred and rectify them at source.

 

It will be interesting to see which of these, if any, proves to be effective.

If anybody thinks I’ve missed a trick, please shout.

Thanks

Ricky

[Ricky68]

Have a reply from the first of my letters;

this one from Wescot.

 

Wescot confirm that they suspended all collection activities as soon as I told them the debt was disputed as per their previous letter in August 2012.

 

What they didn’t tell me before this letter was that they tried to take the matter up with their client, Arrow Global but got no response from them.

 

They also failed to tell me before now that Arrow Global withdrew the account from them in October 2012.

 

It is a pity Wescot did not keep me informed of all this.

 

Unless Arrow Global dispute Wescot’s version of events,

it would appear Wescot are guilty only of failing to update me as they had promised to do in Aug 2012.

 

I look forward to Arrow Golden’s reply as it seems at the moment that the root cause of all this seems to lay firmly at their door.

 

Arrow Global never did respond to my original letter of July 2012. I wonder why?