contesting a job seekers agreement

[oblivious]

Hello all I would like some advice into how I can successfully contest a job seekers agreement. I went for my first interview and whilst the advisor went through the types of jobs and time restrictions ect, to which I agreed to.

 

A print off was then given for me to sign. What had been added was I must spend 6 hours a day job seeking and write to ten employers a week. I was never asked if I agreed to this.

 

I have every intention of finding a job, i am concerned that it would be difficult for me to prove what constitutes as 6 hours worth of jobseeking, if at any point it is decided I have not done that.

 

As we all know job seeking is demoralising, depressing and energy sapping and I am sure occasionally I may fall not stick rigidly to the agreement as we all need a break.

 

I have been job hunting since May but only just signed on and after applying for many, most do not even reply as to whether your application was successful or not. I sometimes find I need to take some time to re-energise myself and re-motivate myself.

 

I do not know how the decsion has been made that I should do 6 hours a day job search and under what basis it was made. I feel that the the advisor just picked the numbers out of thin air.

 

I believe that the job seekers agreement is used purely as a tool to beat you with and stop your benefits when you find yourself in a down time after so many rejections.

 

I wish for it to be reduced to a level that even when I am feeling down I am still able to adhere to it.

 

Would the reasons I give above be good enough reason to have it changed?

[oblivious]

Just to add more, I refused to sign on the grounds its speculative and open to interpretation, however I was told if I did not sign the claim would not be processed. I asked for notes to be put on the system saying I signed under duress. Which the advisor did.

 

I went to sign on the day after and this note had been removed.

 

I feel that this is not agreement at all and I am setting myself up for trouble as I have had problems with this job centre before. I successfully fought off 3 sanctions previously and do want to go down that road again.

[san_d]

Contesting a job seekers agreement doesn't make any sense. If it is an agreement it means you have agreed to it. You have been given two copies, one for you and one for the Jobcentre, and you have read them and signed them. I think you could have not signed the JSAg and then challenge the sanction by claiming that the officer ignored your skills or your circumstances. This is what I did a couple of years ago and I won.

[oblivious]

thanks for your reply. I felt like I had no other choice but to sign as the advisor said I would not recieve any benefits. That is why I asked them to put I signed under duress on the system, but then it was removed.

 

I do not know where the 6 hours a day has come from only a year ago that was never on a job seekers agreement. All I am trying to do is have minimum requirements on the agreement so that there will never be any issues in adhering to it.

[debt4get]

seeing there is actually no way of checking you are 'looking' for 6 hours a day..wouldnt worry too much about it....short of having to attend centre and sitting there for 6 hours a day how the hell would they ever know...as you know jobhunting is itself almost a full time job anyway....best of luck

[hensteeth]

seeing there is actually no way of checking you are 'looking' for 6 hours a day..wouldnt worry too much about it....short of having to attend centre and sitting there for 6 hours a day how the hell would they ever know...as you know jobhunting is itself almost a full time job anyway....best of luck

 

That is as may be. But it will be for the claimant to prove, when required, that he carried out those 6 hours every day for as many days as the DWP require proof for.

 

Personally whether he does or doesn't comply with that directive I would suggest he gets a diary now and fills it in every day to show 6 hours of acftivity. Whether that activity was actually carried out is another matter, there will be a record.

 

Get a list of all of the possible websites and agencies. Off hand I can think of at least 18 without trying - the more the better. Then use that list, placed at the front of the diary and each day refer to it as having checked for any jobs. That should keep you occupied for quite a few hours!

[ashmk]

Instead of phoning the agencies, which takes a few seconds to be told there is nothing how about you say you went into town to visit the agencies. Waited for a bus, walked round town to each agency... that will kill some time. You did some researching on the internet. Checking the job center website. Walked round to some local businesses and asked about work.

 

I'm all for those claiming benefits to actually do something about getting into work but even I agree 6 hours a day is a bit much.

[debt4get]

i agree keeping a diary would be way forward...but the whole thing is bl**dy nonsense....it's an almost impossible thing to prove or disprove....sat at pc all day jobhunting....how the hell can that be proved/disproved...went to library read local papers for 3 hours....its ridiculous!!!

[Nystagmite]

What exactly can you do for 6 hours a day? There are only so many employers you can contact and so many websites you can visit.

[Slatted]

And it is not as if so many new jobs are appearing on sites etc each day that you will not end up duplicating effort at some point is it? Especially as I assume you still have to take travel restrictions into consideration etc

 

My worry is that you say that information you insisted be put on the form about "duress" was not there later and it does not seem that you were given copies at the time it was completed. So did the JCP have a copy with your actual signature? seems a bit fraudulent to me.....

[oblivious]

thanks for the replies. I will give you an example of why I am questioning this. I have just finished a degree and because I am a single parent I was able to claim in the summer period. I was told to write to to 2 employers a week on the last job seekers agreement. I asked what this consisted of and was told filling in application forms and emailing for apllications forms. each week I did more than what was asked.

 

One week one advisor decided that her interpretation was to write of spec and because I did not do that I was sanctioned.

 

These jobs they were asking me to apply were permenant not temporary which was all I was available for. I was told to lie to pontential employers that I was not returning to college. That could easily damage my employability in the future as I may want to apply when I finish college.

 

My arguement is that these job seekers agreements are speculative and open to interpretation. One advisor one week may decide that what I have written in my Job seekers diary does not in their opinion equate to six hours worth of job search. It will be for me to prove I have and how do I do that?

 

Again another experience I applied for jobs that they suddenly decided I had not done without even checking with the employer.

 

I spent more time proving I had indeed applied for them than actually looking for a job.

 

As all those who are job seeking knows all the websites actually contain more or less the same jobs advertised elsewhere, just under a different website name.

 

Again another arguement I have is that one week there are many jobs advertised and you can apply for many. But then next week there may only be one or two new jobs to apply for, how do I keep up the six hours a day search?

 

This is not taken into consideration it seems that they believe there are millions of jobs out there. Also my age is against me I am almost 40 what hope do I have against all the young, new graduates that have just finished degrees. And I agree with nystagmite if I spend six hours a day then after a month or so all avenues could be exhausted.

[oblivious]

No slatted what happened was is that the added on to the agreement that I was not aware of. after they had printed if off I read it and questioned what she had added and saying I do not agree with it. She said that I would not recieve any benefits if I did not. I then said I will sign only if you write under duress on the system. They did this and they day I asked the signing on advisor that I wanted to challenge the job seekers agreement and that it was on the system I signed under duress. They looked and told me nothing was wriiten on there. I tried to discuss it with them and they said they were only a trainee and full advisor and to see my personal advisor.

[Slatted]

Ahh I see... thanks for clarifying.

[oblivious]

I guess I made a mistake by not asking for them to print another one off. Is anything that anyone can suggest I do to get another one made up, that I agree with?

[Nystagmite]

You can make an appointment to change the agreement. Whatever you write (or they write and you dictate) must be reasonable.

[oblivious]

thanks nystagmite for your response, I have made an appointment for next Friday. I have been told I can only make an appointment with my advisor. I understand it must be reasonable, but what is considered as reasonable? what they deem as reasonable I may not. How do I fight it?

 

I want people to know I am not wanting to spend my time on benefits, it's not a lifestyle I want, but at the same time I do not want to be subject to spending more time concerned with how I am treated whilst looking for work. I have already backed down on agreeing to looking for jobs that are way beyond the three years I have spent trying to put myself in a position where I can earn more than the minimum wage by agreeing to accept jobs at this level.

 

I believe I am being more than reasonable in thinking that get a job and then I can concentrate on applying for those that I really want.

 

I have spent 4 years of my life trying to better myself and making myself more employable through education. Doing an access course then a degree.

 

Only for the job centre to dismiss all the hard work I have put in and the +£20,000 debt that I know owe.

[Nystagmite]

I may have missed this; but how long have you been on JSA? It would be reasonable to suggest that you contact 3 employers a week, apply (if they're there) 3 jobs a week and spend a few hours each day job hunting. No idea how you can prove that you've spent a few hours a day job seeking though.

 

That was my job seekers agreement anyway.

[oblivious]

Thanks nystagmite. I have been job seeking since May 2012. However since rules dictate that I can not claim benefits until the official end of term, I have been claiming since 01/07/2012. So I Put a claim in online, to which I recieved a phone call informing me that there was a technical issue and that it could not be put through, I was given a date to attend the job centre to fill a paper claim on the 3rd july 2012. I attended and was given an interview with an advisor to draw up a job seekers agreement. after around an hour I then saw another advisor who filled in a paper application with me. I then had issues with the disparagy between their records and all other Universities records as to the official end of term as they believed it did not match. I was told it would be sent to a decision maker. I then had to go to the head of my course to ask that they give me a letter to prove the course had finished, to prove my case. so in answer to your question In have been claiming benfits since 01/07/2012

[oblivious]

Just an update for everyone. I have written to my local MP and also contacted my local newspaper who are interested in my experience especially surrounding their disregard of my qualifications. I am awaiting a phoncall back from the newspaper and will keep everyone informed of the outcome.

[oblivious]

Can anyone give me details of where the directive of having to spend a certain amount of hours a day job seeking has come from please. I have looked at the job seekers act 1995 and cannot find anything and also the job seekers allowance act 1996 and cannot find anything that says I must spend a certain amount of hours per day job seeking. If anyone know which act stipulates this can you please direct me to to it. Thanks

[Nystagmite]

I've not heard of that and I'm on JSA. I have never been told to spend x amount of hours job searching. I've just been told to do certain things.

[oblivious]

I know nystagmite that why I am asking where it has come from. I believe they are not right in telling me how many hours I should do. It is like telling me I should only sleep 5 hours a day and spend 30 mins eating for each meal and then an hour a day cleaning in order that I am more employable as I am available for more hours a day for working. It also does not stipulate how many days it should be. It will probably be for all seven knowing how they work.

[debt4get]

i doubt you will find it...believe it says you have to do a 'reasonable' amount that you can in order to qualify for jsa...however, reasonable is open to anyones interpretation...

[oblivious]

I agree debt4get. Why is their interpretation taken over mine or anybody elses? They may aswell just give me a list to plan out my day. 7.30am to 8am breakfast...don't bother having a cooked breakfast because you cannot eat it in the timeframe given unless you want indigestion. 8am to 8.15am have a shower.....if you do not have a shower then tough have a body wash instead. 8.15am spend one hour looking at one particular job site. ect ect ect. What happens if I am unffortunate enough not to get a job and at the 13 week review it will then be spend 8 hours a day looking for jobs, where will it end? I am not a robot I am a human being.

[Nystagmite]

i doubt you will find it...believe it says you have to do a 'reasonable' amount that you can in order to qualify for jsa...however, reasonable is open to anyones interpretation...

 

This is the impression I got too. I was given 6 (I think) things to do a week as minimum and that was it.