Job Seeker Sanction for turning down £2 an hour job.

[Midisurf]

I'm facing a sanction because I turned down a below minimum wage job (£2 an hour). This is a door to door sales job with an unkown company that reeks of [problem]. The hours are 40 a week and it isn't enough to cover my expenses.

 

I got a call from my training advisor who told me they are raising a sanction on me and informing job centre I've turned down an opportunity. I asked to speak to the manager and she said because I've been out of work what's the chances of me finding any job and that if I made commission I'd be better off. I told her if I get a sanction I won't have any money for food for six months and she didn't give a damn by the tone of her voice. I said it's wrong this isn't helping me I can't rely on commission and you're forcing me into a minimum wage job, you shouldn't even be making people go for these "jobs" of unkown companies that have no reputation, no reliability.

 

I'm scared I'll get a sanction and be out on the streets, I heard the job centre are ruthless..

[Guest amianne]

I'm facing a sanction because I turned down a below minimum wage job (£2 an hour). This is a door to door sales job with an unkown company that reeks of [problem]. The hours are 40 a week and it isn't enough to cover my expenses.

 

I got a call from my training advisor who told me they are raising a sanction on me and informing job centre I've turned down an opportunity. I asked to speak to the manager and she said because I've been out of work what's the chances of me finding any job and that if I made commission I'd be better off. I told her if I get a sanction I won't have any money for food for six months and she didn't give a damn by the tone of her voice. I said it's wrong this isn't helping me I can't rely on commission and you're forcing me into a minimum wage job, you shouldn't even be making people go for these "jobs" of unkown companies that have no reputation, no reliability.

 

I'm scared I'll get a sanction and be out on the streets, I heard the job centre are ruthless..

 

Much the same as a guy I know who was put forward for a job in look after cats in a cattery. All well and good, they were paying NMW and it was for 16 hours a week.

 

The down side was that this cattery was run as a charity and the successfiul applicant would be required as a condition of his/her employment, to 'volunteer' to carry out the same equivalent hours. Effectively being paid for 16 hours @ NMW with another 16 hours tagged on for nothing!

 

He took the job for fear of being sanctioned. He lasted 4 months after it became apparent that they wanted more than 16 hours of voluntary work out of him. He told them 'politely' what to do with the job and walked out!

 

When he reclaimed JSA, he was duly sanctioned!!

[osdset]

I got a call from my training advisor who told me they are raising a sanction on me and informing job centre I've turned down an opportunity. I asked to speak to the manager and she said because I've been out of work what's the chances of me finding any job and that if I made commission I'd be better off.

 

Go through the complaints procedure the provider is trying it on, you cannot be forced to take less than NMW.

[debt4get]

that is quite correct...you cannot be sanctioned for refusing a job paying less than NMW.....

[Nystagmite]

I'm sure there are rules on takings jobs less than NMW and I think they can't make you take a job that would leave you worse off.

[andydd]

Ive succesfully ppealed a sanction, just put down the points that it would be less than NMW and any other points you think are relevant.

 

Andy

[nyfle]

I'm guessing when you say training adviser, you're referring to an external provider. If that is the case, be aware that some of them are known to play dirty. They could, for example, make a DMA referral that fails to mention that the job in question pays way below the NMW and you could be sanctioned for refusing an employment opportunity. So, if I were in your shoes, I would contact the Jobcentre as soon as possible and tell them that you are being threatened with a sanction for refusing to work for £2 p/h, as it would leave you financially worse off.

 

I don't mean to scare you, but forewarned is forearmed. And as already mentioned, a sanction like this would be very easy to appeal.

[Guest amianne]

I'm guessing when you say training adviser, you're referring to an external provider. If that is the case, be aware that some of them are known to play dirty. They could, for example, make a DMA referral that fails to mention that the job in question pays way below the NMW and you could be sanctioned for refusing an employment opportunity. So, if I were in your shoes, I would contact the Jobcentre as soon as possible and tell them that you are being threatened with a sanction for refusing to work for £2 p/h, as it would leave you financially worse off.

 

I don't mean to scare you, but forewarned is forearmed. And as already mentioned, a sanction like this would be very easy to appeal.

 

Thanks for that advice. If my friend had have known that it was unlikely he would have been sanctioned, he wouldn't have taken the job. Strange how these advisors are so keen to not tell you your rights, but are quick enough to make you feel that they are always right!

 

The sanction he received was for giving up the job he took up even though the hours he had to work only averaged £3 an hour. But that was a while ago and he is now receiving his JSA payments after a 3 month wait.

[Midisurf]

I'm guessing when you say training adviser, you're referring to an external provider. If that is the case, be aware that some of them are known to play dirty. They could, for example, make a DMA referral that fails to mention that the job in question pays way below the NMW and you could be sanctioned for refusing an employment opportunity. So, if I were in your shoes, I would contact the Jobcentre as soon as possible and tell them that you are being threatened with a sanction for refusing to work for £2 p/h, as it would leave you financially worse off.

 

I don't mean to scare you, but forewarned is forearmed. And as already mentioned, a sanction like this would be very easy to appeal.

 

I'm praying the job being below national minimum wage is enough to weave the sanction but they are using the missed opportunity card claiming I could of made commission and gotten a (useless) sales qualification at the end of it. I was due to sign today and I talked to my signer and asked about my sanction, "use the phones to call this number" he said. I called the number, "see your advisor I can't help you". At this point I realized I don't actually have a job centre advisor so I went back to the training program.

 

My advisor there is a good guy but has had to inform the manager about me turning the job down and I tried to explain my situation to her but the conversation went around in circles - I knew she was having none of it. I'll wait for this "a doubt has risen on your claim" letter and try and write a good response to defend myself. I've failed one of these before for missing an appointment due to an exam and providing proof so I know they are ruthless.

[antone]

I'm praying the job being below national minimum wage is enough to weave the sanction but they are using the missed opportunity card claiming I could of made commission and gotten a (useless) sales qualification at the end of it.

 

Still not buying this. Employers have to pay you NMW, you cannot be forced to accept less. Are they asserting it was an apprenticeship or some such thing?

[reallymadwoman]

If there is an ad or similar for the job mentioning pay, make sure you keep a copy of it.

[Midisurf]

Still not buying this. Employers have to pay you NMW, you cannot be forced to accept less. Are they asserting it was an apprenticeship or some such thing?

 

Yeah it was an apprenticeship - a cheap way to get easy labour. They count these jobs as self employed. If anyone is reading this considering door to door sales then please read this first. .ripoffreport.com/corrupt-companies/cobra-group/cobra-group-deceptive-liars-a-c85c6.htm. It's a 12,000 word article on a sales company that sounded very much like the one I got offered. Told I could be a manger with my office at the interview and made a team leader etc etc.

 

I have no advert as it was mentioned to me by my advisor at the work training place and I wish he never mentioned it now and damn right wish I never asked about it again.

[debt4get]

at least this council is getting it right over the NMW

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18694130

[stu007]

Hi

 

Let me get this correct the Job Centre who is part of DWP therefore the Government that sets and is suppose to enforce the National Minimum Wage are breaching their own Policies and Law Acts by enforcing an individual to take a job that is well below the National Minimum Wage or be Sanctioned in their Benefits therefore they are turning a blind eye to this company breaching the National Minimum Wage therefore sanctioning this companies illegal actions.

 

mmmm wonder what the media would make of that one.

 

Also I would try to get a copy of the actual advertisement for this job with that wage rate.

[antone]

Hi

 

Let me get this correct the Job Centre who is part of DWP therefore the Government that sets and is suppose to enforce the National Minimum Wage are breaching their own Policies and Law Acts by enforcing an individual to take a job that is well below the National Minimum Wage or be Sanctioned in their Benefits therefore they are turning a blind eye to this company breaching the National Minimum Wage therefore sanctioning this companies illegal actions.

 

mmmm wonder what the media would make of that one.

 

Also I would try to get a copy of the actual advertisement for this job with that wage rate.

 

I'm reading this as a private Work Programme provider referring a jobseeker for sanction. The grounds appear to be that this is actually an apprenticeship, with an NMW of £2.60.

 

Of course, the whole thing is still preposterous - who ever heard of an "apprentice" door-to-door salesman - and is clearly an attempt by a firm to avoid paying staff NMW. But we can't yet lay blame on the DWP. Now, if they uphold this outrageous sanction, that's a different matter.

[stu007]

Hi

 

@antone can see your point on that one so it would be great if the OP could clarify if they were informed at all that the Job was and Apprenticeship?

[Surfer01]

It is not a recognised apprenticeship! End of!

[osdset]

It is not a recognised apprenticeship! End of!

 

Exactly, and the provider should be brought to book for entertaining this type of employment. It's yet another attempt to circumvent the NMW.

[debt4get]

I've seen the ads for these types of jobs...they seem to get round paying NMW outright by claiming job meets requirements of NMW providing the employee meets the targets set by the employer...now assuming with these jobs that it is almost impossible to meet the targets set the employee ends up with a wage of £2 quid odd an hour.....instead of the NMW...as the job is therefore complying 'loosely, extremely loosely' with NMW requirements it is acceptable...and i have a feeling that is how they are going to get away with sanction....

[down'n'out]

It's yet another attempt to circumvent the NMW.

 

I have seen a couple of posts where the work provider as forced, or attempted to force, jobseekers to go self employed to claim the £50 per week as a full time job, with threats of sending them on long unpaid training courses etc if they refuse.

 

here is one post:- http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/work-programme-employment-agency-advice.294931/

Edited July 4, 2012 by down'n'out

[down'n'out]

I've seen the ads for these types of jobs...they seem to get round paying NMW outright by claiming job meets requirements of NMW providing the employee meets the targets set by the employer..

They can also put forward it is classed as self employed. (no NMW for self employed)

[osdset]

From the Directgov site.

 

Most workers in the UK over school leaving age are legally entitled to be paid at least the NMW and all employers have to pay it to you if you are entitled to it. It makes no difference:

 

• if you are paid weekly or monthly, by cheque, in cash or in another way
  
• if you work full time, part time or any other working pattern
  
• if you work at your employer’s own premises or elsewhere
  
• what size your employer is
  
• where you work in the UK
  

You are entitled to the NMW even if you sign a contract agreeing to be paid at a lower rate. This is regardless of whether you sign of your own free will or because your employer persuades or makes you. The contract will have no legal effect and you must still be paid the proper rate.

[Nystagmite]

The NMW is £2.60 for apprenticeships. However, if over 19, this is only for one year.

[Midisurf]

Great sounds like I'm up **** creek cause it's an apprenticeship and the NMW for an apprenticeship is £2.60 an hour. I'll post about my sanction when it comes through the post. I get paid tomorrow so I have got £80 to last me for however long they sanction me. My advisor said it might only be for a couple of months, yeah only.

 

I don't know what angle to write from when I have to appeal, the fact it's below minimum wage or that it's not even a sustainable job and could even be a con

[Surfer01]

There is no such thing as an apprenticeship for selling goods or services!