Snooping by local government

[debt4get]

I will pass on your support.

 

That was very kind of you.

 

Does anyone think it is worth complaining to the woman from the council's boss about her letters to my cousin?

no harm in complaining, but have a feeling it wont get you very far....they will hide behind the legislation that they are entitled to protect public money expenditure......as daggersedge has so eloquently put it......it is the system we have...you could complain under the rules that she is a 'vulnerable' person..they do have rules regarding this....

[daggersedge]

Excuse me, but don't you live in France? So what is it to you what this women is or is not doing? This ladies mother is obviously high worked up over this, and these type of comments aren't really helpful imo.

 

The woman may be worked up, but that doesn't change the facts in this case. The fact is that these are the rules and there are there because she is receiving other people's money. That is it. People have to understand that being upset doesn't mean that the world revolves around them. The rules simply aren't going to change because she is upset about them and if you think about it, that's a good thing. What's the point of having rules if every time someone said he was upset about them, the rules were just tossed out? If you want a rule of law, then it has to be this way.

 

The sooner this woman realises that, the better, because then she can start really dealing with it. Frankly, though, it isn't as if she has to do anything much more than show bank statements, and she will have to do that no matter how upset she gets, so she had better get on with it. Getting worked up about these things will not do her any good. To say anything else in this situation will simply make matters worse for her.

 

As to where I live, what does it matter? The truth is the truth. Stop trying to flame me and start dealing with the truth.

[debt4get]

your warmth, understanding, and empathy knows no bounds daggers.....whilst what you say is essentially correct there are rules and we all live under them......but inflaming the poster by posting comments like that do not help.....it like telling someone who is committing suicide to 'stop being so stupid and snap out of it' try walking in someone elses shoes for a change....

[ims21]

Please remove the personal insults and flaming undertones from this discussion.

 

It serves no purpose.

 

The thread is being monitored and will be moderated if personal attacks continue.

 

Thank you

[daggersedge]

your warmth, understanding, and empathy knows no bounds daggers.....whilst what you say is essentially correct there are rules and we all live under them......but inflaming the poster by posting comments like that do not help.....it like telling someone who is committing suicide to 'stop being so stupid and snap out of it' try walking in someone elses shoes for a change....

 

First of all, the OP is not the woman who is having the problems; she is the woman's cousin. Second of all, and I hate to say it, but it sounds as if she isn't being very helpful here. She may be focussing too much on her perception of how the system should work and therefore, may be unintentionally making her cousin's problems worse. They are not out to get her cousin, that's what I am saying. They are following the rules. Her cousin might not like it and the OP might not like it, but that is the case. To say anything else just makes the situation worse.

[Slatted]

I think that empathy does not do any harm and no one has said that the information should not be provided have they? The approach of those sourcing the information does not seem to have finesse and can make someone who is already vulnerable more so, surely you recognise that?

 

We are just recognising that both OP and her cousin are feeling strongly about this matter and that it is important to support their feelings....they may not be "out to get" her cousin but her life experience makes her more sensitive to things that you may not worry about at all...

 

To undermine someone elses feelings makes the situation worse in my opinion.

[bio]

I think lots of you would be very surprised by the number of 'little old ladies' who 'forget' to fully declare all of their full financial circumstances when they make claims for benefits, and it is for this reason that LA and DWP have to ask very detailed questions about peoples lifestyles at times. Unfortunately that is the way it is.

[Slatted]

Since when was 56 "old"?

 

And stereotyping is not a good thing is it?

 

Again I state that I am not saying the right and reasons do not exist but how it is applied can cause distress.

[Guest amianne]

The Op never replied to my comments.

 

From how I read it the relative is getting restricted Income Based ESA due to the level of savings.

 

But even so, she is still receiving some Income Based ESA which is clearly a passport to full HB & CTB.

Much the same as Pension Credit or Income Based JSA does.

 

So I question what right do the council have to investigate her affairs when they are aware that they MUST give full HB & CTB irrespective of what she has done with her money. She receives a Passporting Benefit.

 

Or are the LA intent on having a second bite of the same cherry and hoping to reduce her passported benefit?

 

Doesn't seem right to me.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

The Op never replied to my comments.

 

From how I read it the relative is getting restricted Income Based ESA due to the level of savings.

 

But even so, she is still receiving some Income Based ESA which is clearly a passport to full HB & CTB.

Much the same as Pension Credit or Income Based JSA does.

 

So I question what right do the council have to investigate her affairs when they are aware that they MUST give full HB & CTB irrespective of what she has done with her money. She receives a Passporting Benefit.

 

Or are the LA intent on having a second bite of the same cherry and hoping to reduce her passported benefit?

 

Doesn't seem right to me.

 

I agree to some extent with Amianne,

ESA have taken the capital into account and reduced the benefit by the applicable tariff Income so the LA cant take the capital in again.

But the LA is entitled to see bank statements of all account held by the customer,

but if the capital in the accounts are the same in total to that declared to ESA then everything should be fine.

But the LA has every right to check the statements for outgoings and ingoings....

[Guest amianne]

I agree to some extent with Amianne,

ESA have taken the capital into account and reduced the benefit by the applicable tariff Income so the LA cant take the capital in again.

But the LA is entitled to see bank statements of all account held by the customer,

but if the capital in the accounts are the same in total to that declared to ESA then everything should be fine.

But the LA has every right to check the statements for outgoings and ingoings....

 

In other words the LA don't trust the DWP to get things right?

 

I do wonder what would happen if you told the LA to get lost - all of this has been dealt with by the DWP - ESA. Would they be within their rights to refuse a clear passported benefit?

[MIKEY DABODEE]

In other words the LA don't trust the DWP to get things right?

 

I do wonder what would happen if you told the LA to get lost - all of this has been dealt with by the DWP - ESA. Would they be within their rights to refuse a clear passported benefit?

 

I dont think that the LA doesnt trust the DWP to get things right, DWP and LA work closely now, LA notify the DWP quickly of changes that may effect entitlement

LA has every right to see bank statements, I wouldnt advise anyone to tell the LA to get lost, ESA IB is a passported benefit and should get full entitlement to HB

but HB is subject to terms and conditions, on the application form it states bank statements must be provided if asked for

so if the LA asks then you must provide or maybe no HB

[Nystagmite]

If it's more than £5.5k, then they do ask for bank statements; but you get full benefit if you have savings under £6k.

[Guest amianne]

I dont think that the LA doesnt trust the DWP to get things right, DWP and LA work closely now, LA notify the DWP quickly of changes that may effect entitlement

LA has every right to see bank statements, I wouldnt advise anyone to tell the LA to get lost, ESA IB is a passported benefit and should get full entitlement to HB

but HB is subject to terms and conditions, on the application form it states bank statements must be provided if asked for

so if the LA asks then you must provide or maybe no HB

 

 

Thanks

So notwithstanding having sent everything and anything to the DWP and then having been awarded a reduced ESA award which passports to full HB/CTB you are then expected to go through the whole thing again with the LA otherwise the passported benefit (full HB/CTB) will be withdrawn?

 

Talk about a joined up system!

[benidorm60]

I have to say that i do agree , in that if you have 8k and go and spend 3k on a holiday which would increase you eligibility for HB and CTB you are effectively getting the tax payer to fund your holiday.

 

 

I dont I think anybody and everybody is entitled to a holiday, it could be a holiday of

a life time or a special occasion,

The council do ask for bank statement even when you have less the six thousand, a lot less, they have no right to ask what you spend your money on,

if its all declared, on Income Support I was asked by my council for bank statements all the time and my capital was, and is no were nearer six thousand.

No wonder people hide money at home.

I still have to send them I get a small amount of help, they have suspended my benefit twice while waiting for them.

[Guest amianne]

I have to say that i do agree , in that if you have 8k and go and spend 3k on a holiday which would increase you eligibility for HB and CTB you are effectively getting the tax payer to fund your holiday.

 

 

I dont I think anybody and everybody is entitled to a holiday, it could be a holiday of

a life time or a special occasion,

The council do ask for bank statement even when you have less the six thousand, a lot less, they have no right to ask what you spend your money on,

if its all declared, on Income Support I was asked by my council for bank statements all the time and my capital was, and is no were nearer six thousand.

No wonder people hide money at home.

I still have to send them I get a small amount of help, they have suspended my benefit twice while waiting for them.

 

Even though you are receiving a DWP means tested benefit?

 

I would be interested in knowing on what grounds they can make that suspension. Chapter & Verse?

[benidorm60]

I was claiming Income Support but not now, am working now and claiming help with my rent, they know I have no savings but twice on my new claim its been suspended, I dont know why

I am trying to get a house swap and it has delayed it once.

For the amount I get I want to say stick it but till I move I pay lots in travel costs, but am struggling

[flumps1976]

Can I just add that the comment about staff having no empathy is not necessarily true.

I work in the JCP and regardless of how I feel about a customer there are rules and guidance in place and I have to follow that. I am not allowed to use common sense which is frightfully frustrating.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Thanks

So notwithstanding having sent everything and anything to the DWP and then having been awarded a reduced ESA award which passports to full HB/CTB you are then expected to go through the whole thing again with the LA otherwise the passported benefit (full HB/CTB) will be withdrawn?

 

Talk about a joined up system!

 

The LA have rules and regulations of their own, to get HB you have to adhere to these rules, when you sign the application form to apply for Housing Benefit you agree to the terms and conditons, it states you must supply if asked proof of savings, if you dont then in effect you are not complying with the said rules.

So they have everyright to suspend or not process the claim untill they get what they need

 

But when Universal Credits kicks in, then things maybe different

as it all will be adminstered by one dept.....

Edited June 28, 2012 by MIKEY DABODEE

[Slatted]

Can I just add that the comment about staff having no empathy is not necessarily true.

I work in the JCP and regardless of how I feel about a customer there are rules and guidance in place and I have to follow that. I am not allowed to use common sense which is frightfully frustrating.

 

I am not sure if it were my comment that you were referring to but it was not saying that all staff have no empathy but that maybe the way things were being applied had not shown it...I worked in an area where I had to apply tough rules etc but it did not stop me recognising the impact it may have on a person and, hopefully, adapting my style of communication accordingly..

 

And if you look at the post to which I was responding, in the main, perhaps that will make it clearer...?

 

I am sorry if my comments are not taken in the context that I intended but thought that they were read in order and that would have made a diffference...even I am still learning how to effectively communicate on a forum.

 

I would think that there are good and bad and you and Mikey would be in the "good" category when it comes to people skills....

 

And I would not be able to work in a place where common sense and fairness have been all but thrown out of the window it would make me physically ill, literally, so good on you for holding on in there!

[MIKEY DABODEE]

I think lots of you would be very surprised by the number of 'little old ladies' who 'forget' to fully declare all of their full financial circumstances when they make claims for benefits, and it is for this reason that LA and DWP have to ask very detailed questions about peoples lifestyles at times. Unfortunately that is the way it is.

 

I would say to be honest, scans on capital bring up many more cases of undeclared capital, that belongs to male customers then female,

Maybe two to one.

while it did when I was doing my stint on GMS, not to long ago

[Stan Lee]

But when Universal Credits kicks in, then things maybe different as it all will be adminstered by one dept.....

 

I truly hope you're right, but given the government's (that's all governments, not just the current Eton old boy's club) ability to cock up infrastructural and bureaucratic changes, I do wonder if you poor folks that work within the system are in for a hell of a time. I hope my cynicism is misplaced, though.

 

(By the by, that's a fascinating point about males being more likely to have undeclared capital.)

[MIKEY DABODEE]

we shall find out soon, our office is one of the eight, comprehensive training will be given hopefully and then away

 

.

[flumps1976]

Mikey I used to be a Band B/AO visiting officer and my job role was to action the GMS scan and then go out to visit the pensioners to enquire about undeclared pensions and capital.

It was hard to do that as a lone female VO especially asking people outright if they had forgotten about the pension and obtaining the A42 to obtain consent to contact the pension companies/banks etc and then when the outcome came back I had to put the paperwork together to refer to overpayments to complete the calculation for the total they had to repay

That was probably the hardest job role I have ever had in my time at the DWP!

 

Slatted I wasn't really aiming my comments at you just as a general as this thread seemed to be going along the lines of the vast majority of the threads where it can be intrepeted in many ways but usually the under current is the DWP staff are incometent, nosey, lazy etc

Thaks for saying I'm one of the good ones I do try my best even if sometimes people don't like to hear whats posted :o

[Slatted]

I was not sure and am not the type of person who likes to upset anyone, believe it or not....or at least without a really good reason behind it..

 

I am not sure if there is any way that staff are taught about how they deliver and approach the information and requests etc.. but I believe it can make a huge difference believe me...to them as well as the claimants (my life really changed after a Customer Care course showed me what empathy was really about and how to show it even when delivering bad news).

 

Are staff not able to show they realise that what they are saying may be hard to hear? Or that despite it being uncomfortable it is the same for everyone?...I do understand that the common sense issue could get in the way though as that would certainly be a factor for me when I can totally see the point of the person to whom you are writing or speaking.

 

It is just that being so desparate for money and answers etc and having listened to that c...p music for what can sometimes be half an hour (and knowing how much that costs when you have no money already!) being told what we hear HOW we hear it can make us feel even worse. Or having someone going through our bank statements feels really personal...almost like a physical violation I would think for some...?

 

So no empathic comments are encouraged? If so that is a shame....

 

It is not as if I personally do not have empathy or sympathy for those with whom I deal. I can only imagine how the people in your position feel having to take the language etc but sometimes it is so hard to be knocked back so often and get the run around and be treated with suspicion (albeit because that is what has to be done in accordance with the rules) etc

 

Not all staff seem as invested in, for want of a better phrase "customer service" element of the job as others and I think that is noticeable...if not understandable..but I know I have been absolutely incensed by the approach of some of the staff and there is not even a standard way of dealing with anyone who might be upset or angry....some just hang up without warning even if you use a slightly rude word like and not directed at them but the situation!! (I am not condoning anger and bad language but sometimes it is sooooo hard not to say somethng) and of course then you have to ring back and start again which really improves the mood...I was taught to give a warning that you would hang up if....and really "bl...dy"....good grief I had even forgotten it was a swear word....

 

I also think that how some of the post read is as much a criticism on how the whole ethos comes across to claimants as it is meant to say about individuals.

 

I think maybe the situation just makes all sides very sensitive because we are all suffering in one way or another and have had enough.....?:-(