Caught using someone else's Freedom pass, convicted - leave to appeal granted

[BazzaS]

Just trying to figure out her entitlement to a freedom pass.... thought it was for the over 60's or disabled?

 

Maybe the sister is 17, the Gran over 60, and the friend disabled?

[sallypotter]

Billy,

 

sorry but the ticket inspector did not make you say what you said.

 

Come on now, you have got to wise up.

 

You said it, was there a gun to your head or a knife to your back?

 

No.

 

You said what you said, only you.

 

NO-ONE MADE YOU SAY ANYTHING. Apart from you, please......

 

You are still blaming others, you obviously just don't get it.

 

Seriously, you go into court saying that (if you're given the chance) then you have no hope apart from an increased fine because you are not accepting the blame.

[sallypotter]

The sister is probably disabled, does it matter, that is not the issue here?

[Old-CodJA]

The sister is probably disabled, does it matter, that is not the issue here?

 

Absolutely right, the issue is that 'billy' used a pass that he was not entitled to in order not to pay.

[BazzaS]

Absolutely right, the issue is that 'billy' used a pass that he was not entitled to in order not to pay.

 

Indeed, and it wasn't my intention to "muddy waters", only to highlight some of the "inconsequential little lies" that might make it harder for CAGgers to offer reliable advice as the goalposts shift, again.

 

OP (iambilly) : Stick to the truth, it's easier.

 

The RPI can't have made you use the pass fraudulently.

 

If you try to claim in court that the RPI "made you" say things that weren't true (so: you claim that the RPI made you admit to deliberately using the pass with intent to avoid a fare, or admit to using it more than once, when that wasn't really the case) : what do you think will happen if they trip you up in court? Truth now, is that really what happened, or just what you are now wishing you had said?

 

(If you got stressed when questioned by the RPI, don't expect court to be less stressful if you plead not guilty, with your evidence given on oath, subject to the penalties for perjury!)

Edited July 3, 2012 by BazzaS

[sallypotter]

I don't hold out much hope for Billy in court, unless his barrister friend represents him.

 

If he can't get it right here, doubt he will in court.

 

Billy will come across as someone not acceoting responsibility by blaming others and they will come down on him like a ton of bricks.

[sailor sam]

Personally, I have very little sympathy with people who miss-use freedom passes... especially persistent offenders which by his own admission, the OP is.

[sallypotter]

My concern was more with him messing up his life by getting a criminal record for something relatively minor.

 

I know he has abused the pass, stole, etc. but he is obviously immature.

 

However, he hasn't posted this morning, i'm taking it he has sorted something out with his barrister friend.

 

I would love to know the outcome, but doubt we will get the feed back.

[citizenB]

Oh right thanks yeah I wish someone with good experience could suggest help

 

 

Hmm, what help are you actually looking for, Billy?

 

You have been given excellent advice by some well respected members of CAG. IMHO, it is the only advice they can give.

 

Admit your guilt, accept responsibility and for goodness sake - dont try to evade the situation as it is. Not as you want it to be.

 

If you want this to drag on - go to a higher court and be reported on. Then claim you are not guilty, look a fool and have this follow you around for the rest of your life.

[iambilly]

Hi sorry for the late post. Go home pretty late from my meeting with the barrister yesterday.

 

I know what I have done is wrong and I deeply regret it, I don't know how many more times I can say it!

 

I was just trying to shift the blame in anyway possible to try an avoid a criminal record I know it is my fault!

 

I am grateful for most of the advice so far, I was just wondering if and people that went to court ect were on here is all.

 

Anyway the meeting went really well my barrister friend said pleading guilty was the best option for me, he also helped me to compose a letter informing the magistrate about my good personality ect.

 

I have sent the letter with my plea in the post and will be bringing a copy to hand to them personally.

 

The barrister guy said that it would be better to represent myself as it looks more sincerely and my best hope is that I get a down to earth magistrate.

 

He said I should admit everything, be humble and apologetic but my chances of avoiding a criminal conviction are quite low.

Edited July 3, 2012 by iambilly

[citizenB]

Hi sorry for the late post. Go home pretty late from my meeting with the barrister yesterday.

 

I know what I have done is wrong and I deeply regret it, I don't know how many more times I can say it!

 

I was just trying to shift the blame in anyway possible to try an avoid a criminal record I know it is my fault!

 

I am grateful for most of the advice so far, I was just wondering if and people that went to court ect were on here is all.

 

Anyway the meeting went really well my barrister friend said pleading guilty was the best option for me, he also helped me to compose a letter informing the magistrate about my good personality ect.

 

I have sent the letter with my plea in the post and will be bringing a copy to hand to them personally.

 

The barrister guy said that it would be better to represent myself as it looks more sincerely and my best hope is that I get a down to earth magistrate.

 

He said I should admit everything, be humble and apologetic but my chances of avoiding a criminal conviction are quite low.

 

Which is pretty much what everyone has been advising.

 

I sincerely hope that you dont receive a criminal record, as does everyone who has contributed to your thread. So I wish you the best at your hearing and please, regardless of what happens - let us know how you get on

[iambilly]

Which is pretty much what everyone has been advising.

 

I sincerely hope that you dont receive a criminal record, as does everyone who has contributed to your thread. So I wish you the best at your hearing and please, regardless of what happens - let us know how you get on

 

Thanks yeah for all the advice, has been very helpful and calmed me down a little.

 

The letter to the magistrate is a nice touch I think.

 

Of course I will let you know what happens.

[Grotesque]

Stone me brother!!! NO OFFENCE BUT

[iambilly]

Stone me brother!!! NO OFFENCE BUT

 

Sorry what do you mean?

[BazzaS]

Which is pretty much what everyone has been advising.

 

I sincerely hope that you dont receive a criminal record, as does everyone who has contributed to your thread. So I wish you the best at your hearing and please, regardless of what happens - let us know how you get on

 

He is guilty from what he has said, and is pleading guilty to a S5.3 charge of the RRA 1889 (as amended).

This will be a criminal conviction, and will show on both a basic and enhanced CRB disclosure.

 

That said, that means it will show on a CRB, and must be disclosed if applying for a job exempt from the Rhanilitation of Offenders provisions :,that doesn't mean "automatic bar from such posts".

 

Don't fib in court, don't fib on job applications ..... It isn't ideal and is a "speed bump" on your life's road ..... but it's not the end of the road!

[sallypotter]

Yes, but if you've got 20 people applying for a teaching post and 19 haven't got convictions that 1 person with isn't going to get a look in.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, but if you've got 20 people applying for a teaching post and 19 haven't got convictions that 1 person with isn't going to get a look in.

 

Unfortunately true, but just as in every other facet of our lives, our own actions will have consequences.

[iambilly]

Thanks, feeling slightly more derpreesed now

[sallypotter]

Not intending to do that, just saying like old-codja that there will be consequences in pleading guilty.

 

i.e. The criminal conviction and all the consequences of having that especially at such a young age.

[iambilly]

Yeah its not looking good may as well become a full time criminal...

[honeybee13]

On a side issue, Billy, has your barrister friend talked you through how to address the mags, as in sir or madam I believe it is, so you look as respectful as possible?

 

And if I might be so bold, they may not be in the first flush of youth and might appreciate yes instead of yeah. Just my view of course.

 

My best, HB

[iambilly]

On a side issue, Billy, has your barrister friend talked you through how to address the mags, as in sir or madam I believe it is, so you look as respectful as possible?

 

And if I might be so bold, they may not be in the first flush of youth and might appreciate yes instead of yeah. Just my view of course.

 

My best, HB

 

Yeah we went through all of that, my appearance and demeaner could make the difference in a case like this.

 

I am generally quite well spoken and polite so that shouldn't really be an issue I hope

[BazzaS]

Yes, but if you've got 20 people applying for a teaching post and 19 haven't got convictions that 1 person with isn't going to get a look in.

 

Agreed, if all else is equal it might be a deciding factor.

Yet, what of 2 people, one of whom has a conviction as a young / immature person, who has clearly learnt from it and turned their life around?

 

Better if it wasn't a conviction for violence or fraud ; but I'd hope the employer would look at the nature of the offence, and the individual's conduct since.

Otherwise, for any conviction, the effect is to say: you might as well become a career criminal.

 

There must be a middle ground : protecting the vulnerable, while allowing for errors of judgement while still "not fully cooked" (to borrow a phrase from "Judge Judy").

[iambilly]

Yeah very true, but if I was an employer and saw a criminal conviction, I know what I would think, and its not good.

[BazzaS]

Yeah very true, but if I was an employer and saw a criminal conviction, I know what I would think, and its not good.

 

Then this whole process gives you an opportunity to grow up.

 

One: consider how you got here in the first place, and what you learn from that.

Two: reflect on the effect of being spotted telling "little lies", and the risks to how you are perceived when a whole bunch of separate little lies is considered.

Three: you've said how you think some employers will react.

This isn't the end of your life : and one day you might be in the position where you have to decide on who you want to employ : remember how you felt, and help it guide you.

 

You face a choice:

Continue to look for loopholes / ways out of responsibility, or accept responsibility and get on with your life

Decide if you want never again to face the criminal justice system, or say "woe is me, it wasn't my fault, but I may as well be hung for a sheep than a lamb" and re-offend,

Set an example of how someone can make a mistake, get their life back on track, and later be a good example for someone else who has made a mistake, or set an example of a loser who doesn't learn from their errors.

 

Life might look bleak, but it isn't. You can however choose to make it bleak, by not "manning up / growing up", at which point it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy.