Carter/Arrow Claimform - MBNA credit card - **CONSENT ORDER**

[brokentechie]

No BT that is for additional Directions not already proposed/agreed.You have already requested the documents in your defence and AQ.The DJ has had ample time to issue directions re disclosure and yet they are still to comply.

 

What I would do is in A) tick yes at 1. and in the box below just state the claimant has still not disclosed xyz and has failed to search documents pre 2012 as per their N265 confirms to provide proof of default/Notice of Assignment.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Sorry Andy - do you mean tick "No" at A) 1 and then state that I have been unable to comply as the claimant has not disclosed?

 

Sorry for the never-ending Q's

 

BT

[AndyOrch]

No tick " yes "you have complied as far as necessary...the Claimant has failed..... but it does not ask you that and I am trying to help you make the point without further costs and applications.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[brokentechie]

No tick " yes "you have complied as far as necessary...the Claimant has failed..... but it does not ask you that and I am trying to help you make the point without further costs and applications.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Ok many thanks Andy.

 

Please excuse my ignorance

 

BT

[brokentechie]

Hi all, an update - today the other side have deemed to provide me with a DN and NoA as per the attached.

 

Does this mean I'm screwed?

 

The trial date has been set for the 19th March, and I'm to provide a skeleton argument by the 15th March.

 

Both sides are yet to exchange witness statements, and I'm being pressed by their solicitors for a date to exchange them - I have also attached the notice from the court.

 

Please help - I'm stressed to hell with this all now and want it over with

 

She has also written this: -

"

I write further to my letter of 4th March 2013 and note I have not received a reply. Can I please press you to contact me to arrange a date to exchange our witness statements. These will be needed for the District Judge to read prior to trial. Could you please contact me as soon as possible to confirm a date to exchange witness statements.

 

I am attaching to this email (and sending in tonight's first class post) additional documents that I have received from my Client. The documents comprise of the following:

 

1. Credit Card statements for the entire period of the Agreement before it was terminated - this being December 2008 to December 2010 - inclusive.

 

2. Copy of the Default Notice sent to you on 10th January 2011 pursuant to s.87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

3. Copy Notice of Assignment sent to you by Arrow Global on 15th January 2012.

 

You have previously been served with a true copy of the original agreement.

 

I am preparing an Amended List of Documents, detailing the attached documents, which will be filed with the Court. I will also serve you with a copy. I am still awaiting you to sign the statement of truth in your List of Documents and forward a signed copy to me.

 

You have previously received correspondence from Solicitors previously representing the Claimant and they have fully explained the protocol when issuing a Claim via the Bulk Centre. Indeed you have been referred to the appropriate rule (for you to research) confirming that when a Claimant issues through the County Court Bulk Centre the requirement to attach documentation is eliminated. Accordingly, you do not have a valid Defence to the Claim.

 

We are confident that at trial we will succeed in obtaining a Judgment against you for the full amount claimed plus payment of our costs. We will serve you with an updated Statement of our Costs shortly before trial.

 

Finally, I am sure you will agree, it is clear from the enclosed documentation, that there is indeed a case for you to answer."

 

Many thanks in advance

 

BT

 

Edit - personal details removed from attach.

Edited March 7, 2013 by brokentechie

[ims21]

Attachments unapproved....some personal details are showing

[DonkeyB]

That’s the first MBNA DN from 2011 that I have seen – does anyone else have any examples?

[AndyOrch]

Does the DN date match the default date on your summons PoC and CRA,s BT?

 

Andy

[brokentechie]

CRA's? Sorry I don't know what this is Andyorch.

 

And the POC didn't have the DN detailed or any date of default.

 

I also received this by email from their solicitor: -

 

"Without Prejudice save as to costs.

 

Dear Mr Robbins

 

I have taken instructions from my Client this afternoon.

 

I am arranging for my Client to attend the trial to give evidence to the District Judge to confirm all procedures have been complied with and all documentation supplied.

 

My Client is based in the North of the Country and will be booking her travel on Tuesday 12th March 2013, at which point significant costs will start to be incurred. I will be briefing Counsel on that day and will be incurring the brief fee to be paid to Counsel to conduct the trial.

 

My Client has asked you to reflect upon the documentation that you have been served with. If you want to try to resolve this matter amicably then I must have your reasonable offer of settlement (together with the completed means form) by no later than midday on Monday 11th March 2013. This is a final opportunity to resolve this dispute.

 

If I do not have your reasonable proposals to repay the indebtedness and completed financial form, by midday on 11th March 2013 then our client will book travel arrangements on 12th March 2013 and we will proceed to trial. In that instance, there will be no further opportunities extended to you to resolve this matter.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Christine Callaghan"

 

IS this a genuine offer or is it bluff as their house isn't in order?

 

Thanks

 

BT

[DonkeyB]

Andy, the DN is dated 10 January 2011 with a remedy date of 31 January 2011.

 

AG claim the account was defaulted on 31 December 2010!

 

Balance at default was c7900, exactly same as the amount assigned a year later!.

[DonkeyB]

Andy is asking if you have checked your credit files to check what’s recorded, ie. the default date recorded there. Bear in mind that this default date is not the same as the date of issue of the default notice.

[MrHat]

Following

[TOPDET]

Notice of Assignment is from Arrow - I thought it had to be from MBNA?

[DonkeyB]

No, it can come from practically anyone, as long as the facts are clear.

[DonkeyB]

What is odd is that the date of recorded default appears to be well before the actual default notice was issued.

 

If the earlier date is when a default was recorded with the CRAs, then there is a problem. If you had received the default notice and remedied it by paying the arrears, you would still have had the default already listed on your credit file, which would clearly be wrong as a remedied default notice MUST be treated as if the breach had never occurred.

 

Can you tell us more about the docs you actually received? Is it your contention that you never received either the DN or the NoA?

 

It may be worth a call to MBNA to ask exactly what happened when, ie.

 

(1) When was the account registered as in default with the credit reference agencies?

(2) When was a default notice issued?

(3) Exactly when was the account sold?

(4) What was the balance at (1)?

(5) What was the balance at (2)?

(6) What was the balance at (3)?

 

I mentioned that I have not yet seen a DN issued by MBNA from 2011. I said this because all MBNA DNs prior to this were, simply, bad – they did not give enough time to remedy the breach. We need to find more examples that were definitely sent in early 2011 to check the authenticity of this. MBNA have form with DNs and delivery of same – see Harrison v Link, where the judge very politely tore the MBNA witness to bits.

 

I find it odd that their DNs suddenly started giving enough time – especially when you never received it!

[DonkeyB]

... so also check your credit files to try and find out if this is where the earlier default date comes from.

[citizenB]

Andy, the DN is dated 10 January 2011 with a remedy date of 31 January 2011.

 

AG claim the account was defaulted on 31 December 2010!

 

Balance at default was c7900, exactly same as the amount assigned a year later!.

 

DB, I havent seen any MBNA DNs from that period so cant help

 

How is brokentechie going to present this information ?

[citizenB]

So when were you to have exchanged Witness statements ?

[DonkeyB]

DB, I havent seen any MBNA DNs from that period so cant help

 

How is brokentechie going to present this information ?

 

Dunno yet – that’s why getting all the right info is important, of course. Don’t want to raise hopes without all the info.

 

But I have a gut feeling something is not right. It’s whether the issues can be proven or properly refuted.

[brokentechie]

So when were you to have exchanged Witness statements ?

 

29th October 2012.

 

I never received the DN or NoA as they were sent to a previous address - something is very fishy going on.

 

Default date is 31/12/2010 according to Experian, although I failed to make payments (I have statements from 2010) from about May or June 2010.

 

Thanks all for a glimmer of hope

 

BT

[DonkeyB]

Does anyone out there have a copy of an MBNA default notice from 2011 onwards?

[DonkeyB]

Think we need Andy to pop in and advise if issuing the DN after recording the default with the CRAs provides any defence. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t, but it shows they did things completely the wrong way and treated you unfairly.

[citizenB]

Think we need Andy to pop in and advise if issuing the DN after recording the default with the CRAs provides any defence. I’m pretty sure it doesn’t, but it shows they did things completely the wrong way and treated you unfairly.

 

I have asked him to look in DB

[brokentechie]

I have asked him to look in DB

 

Thank you all so much.

 

There are 2 refs on my CR, one from MBNA and the other from Arrow. They both have the same info re dates etc.

 

Like I said the the first default non-payment would have been June or July 2010.

 

Surely they would have sent a DN then, and only why now have they supplied it when I requested it last June?

 

Also NoA was sent to old address yet Bryan Carter had my new one to serve papers?

 

Thanks,

BT

[DonkeyB]

They will swear blind these were sent.

 

That’s why I want to find a copy of a 2011 DN from MBNA.

 

Whatever, these are problems they can overcome, I’m afraid, unless you can prove in some way that the DN is false.

 

While it was wrong for MBNA to default you before issuing a DN – because it removed your right to remedy – that is a cause for complaint, but not a defence, IMHO.

 

What IS wrong is that TWO defaults for the same debt have been marked against you. Again, cause for complaint.

 

I have trawled the internet and threads for a post-2010 MBNA DN – can’t find one yet. Please join in!

 

Had you moved to a new address at the time the supposed DN and NoA were sent, and had you advised MBNA/Carter of your new address at that time?

[brokentechie]

They will swear blind these were sent.

 

That’s why I want to find a copy of a 2011 DN from MBNA.

 

Whatever, these are problems they can overcome, I’m afraid, unless you can prove in some way that the DN is false.

 

While it was wrong for MBNA to default you before issuing a DN – because it removed your right to remedy – that is a cause for complaint, but not a defence, IMHO.

 

What IS wrong is that TWO defaults for the same debt have been marked against you. Again, cause for complaint.

 

I have trawled the internet and threads for a post-2010 MBNA DN – can’t find one yet. Please join in!

 

Had you moved to a new address at the time the supposed DN and NoA were sent, and had you advised MBNA/Carter of your new address at that time?

MBNA almost certainly - I moved in Feb 2010 and was at that address for 2 years.

 

AG sent NoA to old address some 12 months later than alleged DN in early 2012, and then Carter wrote to me in May 2012 to my new (correct) address.

 

Does the agreement have to contain an account number - there are 2 different addresses on 2 agreements and 2 lots of T's and C's?

 

If I'm on a no hoper then I'm prepared to make an offer - say 5k payable at 50 pm is all I can afford.

 

Thanks,

BT