Friend Committing Benefit Fraud

[Nystagmite]

It would be so much easier to do one benefit and wait until everyone's been transferred over.

[MIKEY DABODEE]

Delivering Universal Credit

The DWP announced that Universal Credit will be delivered by the best performing DWP and Tax Credit processing centres. An announcement about the selection of these sites was made by the DWP on 28th February 2012.[8]

From this it is clear that local authorities, who currently deliver Housing Benefit (one of the key legacy benefits which will be incorporated into Universal Credit), will not have a core role in delivering Universal Credit. However, the Government has started to recognise that there may be useful roles for local authorities in helping people to access the services within Universal Credit.[9]

 

Everything all in then, anyone know of any exceptions.

 

I heard Carers Allowance and of course PIP, aka DLA

[45002]

And from April 2013 PIP is rolled out,a recipe for disaster while ATOS continue to struggle with the medicals and the appeal system grinds to a halt

 

Not to mention Universal Credit

 

It would be so much easier to do one benefit and wait until everyone's been transferred over.

 

What a sensible Idea.

 

Hang on politicians dont do sensible things,do they ?

 

 

 

Delivering Universal Credit

The DWP announced that Universal Credit will be delivered by the best performing DWP and Tax Credit processing centres. An announcement about the selection of these sites was made by the DWP on 28th February 2012.[8]

From this it is clear that local authorities, who currently deliver Housing Benefit (one of the key legacy benefits which will be incorporated into Universal Credit), will not have a core role in delivering Universal Credit. However, the Government has started to recognise that there may be useful roles for local authorities in helping people to access the services within Universal Credit.[9]

 

Everything all in then, anyone know of any exceptions.

 

I heard Carers Allowance and of course PIP, aka DLA

 

All in one,that's a joke !

 

If only.....

[MIKEY DABODEE]

And for the Self Employed

When implemented, Universal Credit will drastically affect the low-paid self employed as well as anyone who makes a tax loss.[2] It is proposed that Universal Credits, like the current Working Tax Credits, will be "limited to those who exceed the 'floor of assumed income'" based on the National Minimum Wage.[3] As well as directly affecting self-employed people, excluded from any set minimum wage, it could also affect employees who receive below the minimum wage, hitting the poorest workers the hardest (however no legal workers should be earning below minimum wage, so only illegal workers would be affected).mployed

 

 

no more trading at a loss then.

[Nystagmite]

More people would probably be unemployed then. They'll get more money from benefits than they would if they were self employed and brining in small amounts each month. I'm sure I read that if you're self-employed, you're not legally entitled to the minimum wage? Whereas if you employ someone, you must pay the minimum wage.

 

Also, what happens to those on apprenticeships? In the first year, you only get around £2.65 an hour.

[jadeybags]

I for one am relieved that Local authories won't be doing the working out of these benefits with Universal credit. Ours is useless for a start. I expect DWP staff are properly trained, where as LA staff are not.

The self employed bits a worry though, mine works out at about 3.33 an hour at the moment

[Stan Lee]

I for one am relieved that Local authories won't be doing the working out of these benefits with Universal credit. Ours is useless for a start. I expect DWP staff are properly trained, where as LA staff are not.

The self employed bits a worry though, mine works out at about 3.33 an hour at the moment

 

My experience is exactly the opposite: my LA were approachable, quick on the ball, and most-of-all human when dealing with the overpayment that we disclosed to them. They were also far quicker in their calculations. I think that the DWP/LA staff on here have a pretty thankless job (and I should take an opportunity to thank you all for the advice you post), but in my experience, our LA was superior in just about every aspect to our dealings with the DWP.

 

I wouldn't necessarily put this discrepancy down to incompetence, but perhaps more down to the enormous, frustrating bureaucratic machine that surrounds welfare and benefits. I can only imagine what it is like working within these government offices for the overworked/underpaid staff.

 

As for Universal Credit clearing it up, well, I understand there is a need for change; my suspicion is that the actual cost of instituting deep-seated, meaningful changes to the benefits system would cost the government far more than they (or any government) would be willing to pay. My suspicion is not only that the Universal Credit is effectively a band-aid for a gunshot wound, but that it will add yet more layers of bureaucracy for frontline staff.

 

I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

[worried33]

Exactly DWP own figures show that much of their so called fraud reports are in fact malicious in nature. Too many people seem to use it to aid their own personal vendettas and agendas and so having to put your name against such a thing would hopefully deter that kind of petty behavior imo.

 

This needs addressing, I dont understand why it can be anonymous. This to me is simpyl so they can maximise reports and as such kick more people of benefits even if its done wrongly.

 

If someone 'thinks' someone may be doing fraud they shouldnt report it as its only a matter of opinion and no proof.

 

If someone knows someone is doing fraud and has proof then they shouldnt worry about putting their name in, the name should still be kept confidential from the claimant anyway like a witness is to a crime.

[worried33]

Ok I still havent read every post but here is my bits.

 

How would someone know someone is claiming benefits such as a neighbour, does that neighbour brag about it as if they proud? none of my neighbours know I am claiming unless they have got my post because its not something I brag, I keep it to myself. Or is it a case people just assume (guess) because they dont see that person going to work. How do they know what that person does, do they get obsessed watching them all day? I hope the point of these questions is seen.

 

In terms of illnesses for sickness benefits like IB, to others it may seem minor what people claim for but there is 2 things to consider here.

 

1 - everyone is different, a condition will affect one person in a minor way and in a major way another person. Not all conditions are present 24/7 and not all are visible.

2 - Minor conditions can have major affect on life without proper treatment so alot is also down to getting proper healthcare, obviously the patient has a responsibility to report the condition to a doctor, but after that the doctor needs to properly diagnose and give proper treatment, my experience of GPs suggests this doesnt always happen. There seems to be a huge variance between good and bad GPs as well as health authorities.

[worried33]

like i said in my post, i imagine people who work and pay tax who pay for those on benefits legitimately don't mind. yeah people who get benefits may have taxes taken too, last month, £440 tax was taken from my wages, primarily to pay for those whose choose not to work, i would of like to of spent that on my family, i worked for it. . how much in taxes do those who get benefits get taken from them ?

 

At least try to post facts.

 

There is no way such a big % of the tax intake is spent on benefit fraud. Its actually approx 1-2% of total benefit expenditure, and in addition to that the benefit expenditure out of total government expense is not the majority o spending either so out of total tax its about 0.5p in the £.

 

So if your tax bill is £440 of your wages then its nearer to fact to say £2.20 of that went on benefit fraud.

 

Also I feel alot of people dont know what true struggling is.

 

My sister says she struggles and she earns 19k a year, she just had a weekend out to skegness and has all new nice plush furniture in her bungalow, goes out 3-4 times a week. She has just told me she cant buy my food anymore and can only pay me back £10 a month (she owes me money), she also has a partner who lives with his parents on another 14k a year who helps her with bills.

 

Yet even when I was getting my benefits I was only getting approx 7k a year and got by on it.

 

Look in the news, record sales of iphones, ipads etc. alot of people arent poor, they just moaning and tight with their money and are very anti tax. Granted some are of course but I feel a lot of it is people just playing poor or thinking they poor comparing themselves to rich people.

[jadeybags]

My experience is exactly the opposite: my LA were approachable, quick on the ball, and most-of-all human when dealing with the overpayment that we disclosed to them. They were also far quicker in their calculations. I think that the DWP/LA staff on here have a pretty thankless job (and I should take an opportunity to thank you all for the advice you post), but in my experience, our LA was superior in just about every aspect to our dealings with the DWP.

 

I wouldn't necessarily put this discrepancy down to incompetence, but perhaps more down to the enormous, frustrating bureaucratic machine that surrounds welfare and benefits. I can only imagine what it is like working within these government offices for the overworked/underpaid staff.

 

As for Universal Credit clearing it up, well, I understand there is a need for change; my suspicion is that the actual cost of instituting deep-seated, meaningful changes to the benefits system would cost the government far more than they (or any government) would be willing to pay. My suspicion is not only that the Universal Credit is effectively a band-aid for a gunshot wound, but that it will add yet more layers of bureaucracy for frontline staff.

 

I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

 

Gosh I wish mine were that good They royally messed my claim up, & I expect it is a thankless job, but so are most jobs, at least my online shopper job..the worst I could do to someone was miss a few food items off their shopping delivery, the incompitance of the council have put me in debt for the next 5 years now instead of 3 (long story) Mistakes do happen, but our LA make a lot more than average.

And I was down there today to put a claim in again for housing benefit, after not being on it for just over a year. And I am petrified. But I have no choice now if I want to build up a self employed business. And whilst I still have teenagers & get working tax credits etc, now is the time to do it.

I have a self employed interview on friday at the housing benefit. But I seriously am scared about claiming off them in case something goes wrong again. And hope I have done the right thing doing this now.

They couldn't get my claim right when I was employed set hours a week & they had a works contract in front of them. What's gonna happen with a varying income. I must be bonkers!

[Stan Lee]

Gosh I wish mine were that good They royally messed my claim up, & I expect it is a thankless job, but so are most jobs, at least my online shopper job..the worst I could do to someone was miss a few food items off their shopping delivery, the incompitance of the council have put me in debt for the next 5 years now instead of 3 (long story) Mistakes do happen, but our LA make a lot more than average.

And I was down there today to put a claim in again for housing benefit, after not being on it for just over a year. And I am petrified. But I have no choice now if I want to build up a self employed business. And whilst I still have teenagers & get working tax credits etc, now is the time to do it.

I have a self employed interview on friday at the housing benefit. But I seriously am scared about claiming off them in case something goes wrong again. And hope I have done the right thing doing this now.

They couldn't get my claim right when I was employed set hours a week & they had a works contract in front of them. What's gonna happen with a varying income. I must be bonkers!

 

Please don't misconstrue what I said as an attack on you, Jadeybags: you've clearly been through a horrendous experience, and dragged through the ringer because of someone else's incompetence. Maybe you should have a welfare right's adviser check your new claim to put your mind at rest? (I'm sure you've thought of that already.)

[worried33]

I don't think any of this was envisaged by Mr Attlee, Labour's 1945 Prime Minister. Remember there were tens of thousands of fatherless families at the end of the war and the benefits (along with child allowance) was brought in to ease their lot. I don't think they were ever intended as a permanent entitlement.

 

The state it's in now is because instead of making a new paper, they (along with all legistlation) just keep adding bits on here and taking a bit off there until the whole thing is just one big mess and not understood by anyone.

 

Just think how rich this country would be without all these benefits, they could scrap business rates and taxes and that would give companies more money to invest and employ. There could be full employment even in todays climate.

 

taxes would still exist.

 

also benefits is enforced money circulation, what do I mean by that?

 

in a unregulated environmnet money would end up sitting in ank accounts of the richest, and recessions would still exist.

 

tax and giving out to the poor forces money to be spread out and as such improves an economy as it gets spent in shops.

 

think about it.

 

if you had 1 billion pounds.

 

which is better for economy.

 

1 - leave it with 1 wealth person who spends 2% of it and saves the rest.

2 - give 1 million poor people £1000 each, they spend all of it so 100% of it is circulated round the economy.

[Life-Goes-On]

I prefer Attlee's solution of dealing the poor and disabled than Hitlers!

[assisted blonde]

Worried33 totally agree with you that some people dont know what struggling is, been there done and am now in the fortunate position of being ok financially.

.That is probably why I get annoyed with those few people in society who think we all owe them a living and they dont have to do anything to help themselves, and those who have just learnt to play the system and seem proud of it, such as the OPs friend.

[count orlok]

in the olden days the dole was enough to live on including rent (not in luxury, but enough) and basic rate tax was 33%. Now the dole is not enough to live on and basic rate tax is only 20%, yet people moan about the poor having too much, how many of the moaners could live on JSA, I certainly couldn't. I only manage on my ESA because I have a partner.

[worried33]

Worried33 totally agree with you that some people dont know what struggling is, been there done and am now in the fortunate position of being ok financially.

.That is probably why I get annoyed with those few people in society who think we all owe them a living and they dont have to do anything to help themselves, and those who have just learnt to play the system and seem proud of it, such as the OPs friend.

 

I agree and to be clear I am not condoning people who live on welfare out of a choice in lifestyle. But was trying to counter some what I seen as unfair and misleading posts like the £440 all going to welfare claimants and labeling people as fraudelent without proof.

 

The OP has the chance to post some more info about the neighbour such as has the neighbour admitted to what has been posted or some other hard proof. As I am curious why the OP wanted to be anonymous.

 

If I had a friend who I knew for fact to be doing welfare fraud and I was goign to report that friend, I would do as whats been suggested earlier and tell the friend I feel its wrong and they need to declare it themselves first while they have the chance if not I will be reporting it. I wouldnt do it on the sly behind their back, but thats just me I guess. Its also possible I wouldnt report it eg. if doing so would make my friend homeless etc.

 

However is there justified reasons for fraud?

 

I am currently living on only housing benefit which isnt even convering all of my rent, if I applied for JSA I expect I would now be getting money but I didnt claim JSA out of principle because I know I would have had to lie to get it (say I am capable of work). By doing what I see as the right thing I have now no income because of the DWP been very hard on me. It works both ways, the DWP is resorting to dodgy means to get people off benefit.

 

also if someone is paying high tax eg. £440 a week they conveniantly leave out the untaxed income which if they paying £440 is going to be a nice high number,

Edited April 16, 2012 by worried33

[Nystagmite]

How would someone know someone is claiming benefits such as a neighbour, does that neighbour brag about it as if they proud? none of my neighbours know I am claiming unless they have got my post because its not something I brag, I keep it to myself. Or is it a case people just assume (guess) because they dont see that person going to work. How do they know what that person does, do they get obsessed watching them all day? I hope the point of these questions is seen.

 

As mentioned before, I know someone who was accused of claiming benefits that he wasn't actually claiming. I do know someone who claims DLA for her daughter who is supposedly unable to walk. There's a video of her daughter dancing... I know she claims DLA because she was moaning that originally she only got LRC and on appeal, got MRC and HRM.

 

My manager is aware that I claim benefits - because I was referred to the company he works for by the job centre and he's aware (it's been discussed many times) that I'm desperate for a job and have been told I don't actually need to give him notice when I do get a job. I volunteer; so unlike someone working, there's no requirement as such.

[Stan Lee]

I prefer Attlee's solution of dealing the poor and disabled than Hitlers!

 

Right on.

[Nystagmite]

in the olden days the dole was enough to live on including rent (not in luxury, but enough) and basic rate tax was 33%. Now the dole is not enough to live on and basic rate tax is only 20%, yet people moan about the poor having too much, how many of the moaners could live on JSA, I certainly couldn't. I only manage on my ESA because I have a partner.

 

People on JSA supposedly get everything paid for them - I wish! I still have to pay at least £50+ for glasses each year.

[Stan Lee]

taxes would still exist.

 

And so they should: taxes are a pain, but then I do use roads and hospitals and libraries, and I do use recycling bins, and appreciate having street lights, as well as other public amenities.My partner and I are back in a situation where we are both paying taxes again, but I don't grudge it.

 

I'm not an economist, but the question to my mind (in regards to benefits) is about whether anecdotes about scroungers are being used to justify eviscerating benefit for the weakest and most vulnerable in society. I remember Neil Bateman posting a form on Rightsnet from the HMRC website that allowed people to declare offshore bank accounts to the government that they had 'forgotten' to mention, and nothing would come of it as long as the yearly interest was under ten thousand pounds. How much money would you have to have saved, that was undeclared, in order to see a yearly return of interest of £9999? Certainly this seems a more lenient approach than the government departments that many posters on this website have had to deal with. Now, I'm just posting anecdotes that suit my own political persuasion, which is probably no better than the right-wing tabloids who regularly beat up on immigrants, or gays, or benefits cheats. It seems to me though that any political system will have loopholes and people trying to cheat it, whether that be benefits cheats, or millionaires with creative accountants -- the danger is by focussing on the sensationalist stories we end up with a system that is truly retrograde, and my instincts are that we are heading back towards a 19th century view of the poor, the ill, and the downtrodden being leaches on society. Again, I hope I am proved wrong in my cynicism.

[worried33]

People on JSA supposedly get everything paid for them - I wish! I still have to pay at least £50+ for glasses each year.

 

I pay for taxis to see my GP (only hospital refferals can be reclaimed and in my experience the full amount isnt refunded as they have a set amount per mile).

Also I pay for eye drops which my GP wont do prescription for.

I pay for painkillers on top of prescription painkillers.

I pay for costs going to/from the Job centre which has been hideous the last 2-3 months.

Calls to the Job centre which are usually £1+ a pop. can of course be much more with queues and such.

I am forced to use online shopping for my food due to my health which is a lot more expensive than able to go into stores and less choice to shop around.

All my rent and council tax isnt paid so they the excess come out my main benefit (when I had the benefit).

 

Probably much more but thats some of it. I am baffled that people on one side can say they struggling on 20k+ a year and then think someone on under 10k a year has it easy.

 

This year we have the tax allowance increase which will help people on low wages a lot and I believe is a tax cut actually for everyone who works that earns more than the threshold.

 

Income tax is at its lowest for decades.

Edited April 16, 2012 by worried33

[worried33]

And so they should: taxes are a pain, but then I do use roads and hospitals and libraries, and I do use recycling bins, and appreciate having street lights, as well as other public amenities.My partner and I are back in a situation where we are both paying taxes again, but I don't grudge it.

 

I'm not an economist, but the question to my mind (in regards to benefits) is about whether anecdotes about scroungers are being used to justify eviscerating benefit for the weakest and most vulnerable in society. I remember Neil Bateman posting a form on Rightsnet from the HMRC website that allowed people to declare offshore bank accounts to the government that they had 'forgotten' to mention, and nothing would come of it as long as the yearly interest was under ten thousand pounds. How much money would you have to have saved, that was undeclared, in order to see a yearly return of interest of £9999? Certainly this seems a more lenient approach than the government departments that many posters on this website have had to deal with. Now, I'm just posting anecdotes that suit my own political persuasion, which is probably no better than the right-wing tabloids who regularly beat up on immigrants, or gays, or benefits cheats. It seems to me though that any political system will have loopholes and people trying to cheat it, whether that be benefits cheats, or millionaires with creative accountants -- the danger is by focussing on the sensationalist stories we end up with a system that is truly retrograde, and my instincts are that we are heading back towards a 19th century view of the poor, the ill, and the downtrodden being leaches on society. Again, I hope I am proved wrong in my cynicism.

 

yeah there is defenitly different approaches used.

 

eg. vodafone have had lots of unpaid tax written off.

 

Also there is large corporate tax drops happening now which will save the likes of tesco huge amounts of tax.

 

The reasons fo rthis is supposedbly to 'encourage' these companies to employ more.

 

So the approach used for the rich is to encourage them to be more contributory. I assume this will also be to justify the top rate tax drops to encourage top rate taxpayers to pay more as if its ok for them to choose to declare more earnings.

 

Whilst as you said benefit claimants are not encouraged they are forced. Its a carrot for the rich and a stick for the poor.

[Nystagmite]

I pay for taxis to see my GP (only hospital refferals can be reclaimed and in my experience the full amount isnt refunded as they have a set amount per mile).

 

I had this problem too. I need a letter from my GP to state I can't travel on buses. I can; but not for that amount of time and not all the hospitals I visit are within walking distance. Thankfully, one is just around the corner from me.

 

Also I pay for eye drops which my GP wont do prescription for.

 

Same. At £12 a month. I've been told they won't pay because it's "cosmetic" - dry eyes are a medical issue and not a cosmetic one. It's not my fault that I can't use eye gel / drops without getting it everywhere and poking myself in the eye.

[Stan Lee]

Same. At £12 a month. I've been told they won't pay because it's "cosmetic" - dry eyes are a medical issue and not a cosmetic one. It's not my fault that I can't use eye gel / drops without getting it everywhere and poking myself in the eye.

 

Just a thought, but it might be worth trying a different GP. It was a a while ago now, but I've sat in on meetings amongst medical staff where there was huge disagreement about prescriptions, often divided along political lines. Some GPs prescribe methadone; some don't. Some GPs sign off on abortions; some don't. I've known Doctors who know the price of every drug they prescribe, whereas others don't care. One way to try and get round the cosmetic issue is to argue that the lack of a prescription is causing you depression/anxiety/psychiatric distress -- this is the reason often used for the family physician prescribing viagra (not that I've ever had a prescription for viagra *cough cough*).