Accused of Benefit Fraud such a mess !!!!!!!

[dottyaussie]

Hi all firstly im sorry if this is a bit long winded but I am so confused and really need help.

I suffer from severe anxiety and panic attacks and have been claiming ESA.

Nov 18 benefits were stopped as I failed medical, I appealled.

Dec 4 Received a visit from DWP, Council & 4 police officers at my home at 8am, they searched my home then arrested me. They also arrested my ex on suspicion of aiding & abetting. We were both interviewed at police station and eventually at 6pm released without charge. I was bailled to appear at a later date.

Dec 5 received a letter from Jobcentre saying benefits re-instated as of Nov 18 as I had appealled my ESA decision.

Jan 16 Second interview at police station with DWP & Council, after 3hrs released again no charge.

Jan 18 Found out at post office that ESA had not been paid. Phoned Jobcentre they did not know why I hadn't been paid. They phoned me back and said the only thing they had was a message on-screen sayin 'If I contacted them I was to phone **** on ******. I phoned the number and it was Fraud Investigation. I eventually found out that they had suspended my ESA.

Jan 18 Received a letter from Jobcentre saying I my appeal had been overturned in my favour and that appeal would not be sent to Appeals Service.

Jan 24 Received a phone call from Jobcentre asking did I still want to go through with my appeal for ESA !!!!!! I told them I had already received a letter about this but they seem to have no record of sending me the letter. (This is still being investigated)

I heard nothing from anyone until I rang Fraud investigation on 28 Feb to ask what was happening with the case. No-one phoned me back.

Mar 6 Received a letter from Council stating Annual Updating of Benefit your benefits have been reassessed and you qualify for x amount for Housing Benefit and x amount for Council Tax

Mar 12 Received a letter from Jobcentre Debt Management saying I owed them £1600. I phoned them and asked what this was about and they said they had received a letter from Jobcentre saying I was no longer on benefits and the amount was for Social Fund Loans. I told them that my ESA had been suspended not stopped and was awaiting a decision. They told me to contact them when I have the decision.

Mar 22 Received a letter from Jobcentre saying ESA stopped as of 18 Nov because I have a partner (which I don't) and that they have used tax years 2009 & 2010 to asses this.

Mar 26 Received a letter from Jobcentre saying previous sick note due to run out please send another.

Mar 28 Received a letter from Council saying Housing Benefit & Council Tax have been temporarily suspended because 'DWP have notified us that you have had a change in your entitlement to ESA'

 

I have heard nothing from Fraud Investigation or Council about the benefit fraud case. It says on the letter from Jobcentre I can appeal the decision that they have stopped my ESA. How do I appeal when I have no other information from them to appeal against. Its just a one page letter.

Why have they stopped my ESA from 18 Nov (coincidently the same date as ESA was stopped when failed medical) I wasnt even interviewed by DWP until 4 Dec.

I was still being paid ESA from 18 Nov until Fraud Investigation stopped it on 18 Jan.

 

Does this make any sense to anyone?? Please help as I know I only have a month to appeal .

[Conniff]

If you know for certain that you have not done anything they think you may have then get in there and kick up a stink. Write to the fraud department and ask them to either put up or shut up and that you don't like being called a liar and thief and give them 48 hours to respond or you will take further action. Send it by recorded or registered letter.

[johnvernon74]

First thing is Subject Access Request to Jobcentre asking for all information help about you. I don't think there is a charge for this - then write a formal request.

 

I had a similar story in 2008 that took 4 years to sort. Only after getting information from them and 14-15 court appearances and challenging them did DWP drop my case.

 

They now owe me £1800 that they have been deducting of me and this will take forever to get back.

 

Keep fighting them, if you are sure you have done nothing wrong.

[sadone]

Nov 18 benefits were stopped as I failed medical, I appealled.

Dec 4 Received a visit from DWP, Council & 4 police officers at my home at 8am, they searched my home then arrested me. They also arrested my ex on suspicion of aiding & abetting. We were both interviewed at police station and eventually at 6pm released without charge. I was bailled to appear at a later date

 

Good lord, thats all a bit extreme isn't it even if they do suspect you of fraud? I mean what on earth do they think you've done? Robbed banks?

 

Were you on contributions based ESA or Income based?

 

I hope you get It sorted asap, and please come back to us and let us know how you get on.

[jabba jones]

Good lord, thats all a bit extreme isn't it even if they do suspect you of fraud? I mean what on earth do they think you've done? Robbed banks?

 

I presume there's a lot more to this case than dottyaussie has mentioned. The most likely been failing to attend several IUC's in a case that has plenty of evidence. But there are other reasons such the Organised Fraud Team who investigate much more serious cases etc. etc.

 

The appeal & the suspension are seperate unrelated issues.

 

The appeal was regarding been found fit for work at a medical.

The suspention was regarding the fraud investigation & was to stop any further overpayment occuring.

 

I'm guessing that when the benefits section put ESA back into payment after the appeal was received they didn't realise there was also a fraud investigation ongoing & it's only when the investigator has spotted this in Jan. that the suspension has been resubmitted.

But it also could be that it was only after the 2nd IUC that they were confident they could prove an offence had taken place & therefore stopped any further payments.

Edited April 1, 2012 by jabba jones

[dottyaussie]

I was never asked to attend ANY IUC's. I knew nothing of any investigation until as I said they all turned up at my front door !!

[sadone]

May I ask what means tested benefits were you claiming? Did they not say anything to you in regard to what they thought you'd done? Have they not tried to get you in for an IUC since then?

 

The whole thing seems very extreme/odd to me.

[dottyaussie]

I was on Employment Support Allowance and at the first interview after they arrested me they said I had been living with my ex, who has actually been my ex for the last 12 years. They haven't said how long they think I have been doing this, even the appointed solicitor I had at that interview doesnt know how long either. As I said after I was interviewed I was bailed to appear back at the police station on 16th Jan. The appointed solictor told me that I would probably be called in for a second interview before that date and probably at my local job centre. Nope DWP phoned me at 9am on 16th Jan to remind me that I was to appear for second interview at police station at 10am that day. I told them I was already on my way there anyway.

[sadone]

So is this all over housing benefit then? Is that the only means tested benefit you're on or is your ESA income based? Seems rather rough tactics If thats all it is.

[dottyaussie]

My ESA is income based which was suspended 2 days after the second interview and I was receiving housing benefit and council tax which will be 'temporarily suspended' from 2nd April.

[sadone]

Ah right, so they think you've been living with him, and not declaring it. Right I get It now.

 

Still seems like very ott strong arm tactics to use imo. Far too much for such an accusation.

[MARTIN3030]

which will be 'temporarily suspended' from 2nd April.

 

How come 2nd April ?

[dottyaussie]

No idea why the 2nd April thats just what it says in the letter.

[antone]

First thing is Subject Access Request to Jobcentre asking for all information help about you. I don't think there is a charge for this - then write a formal request.

 

I had a similar story in 2008 that took 4 years to sort. Only after getting information from them and 14-15 court appearances and challenging them did DWP drop my case.

 

They now owe me £1800 that they have been deducting of me and this will take forever to get back.

 

Keep fighting them, if you are sure you have done nothing wrong.

 

There's no harm in sending a SAR, and you're correct that there's no fee. But they won't be obligated to disclose information relating to an ongoing fraud investigation.

[jadeybags]

I thought they only involved the police, due to wanting to search peoples homes when big frauds were going on? Like over 100k fraud? Invented children/family/rented homes owned by the claimant/ lots of members of a family in on the fraud etc. I never knew they went to all that trouble for a Living together as husband & wife thing. It's getting a bit OTT now isn't it??

[id6052]

It is not unknown of for the police to assist the DWP and Council when investigating benefit claims.

 

Especially in cases where either the DWP and Council suspect their may be evidence in the home which supports the fraud allegation, or where the police have an interest in searching the property for evidence of other offences.

[dottyaussie]

What I need to know is has the investigation finished ?? Because I was told by the appointed solicitor that once the fraud team had recieved their decision I would receive a whole stack of information from them?? I have received nothing from them. After the second interview at the police station I had gone to the toilet, when I came back the appointed soliciter had gone and also the DWP investigator and I was left standing with the desk sergent and the investigator from housing benefit/council and no-one seemed to know what was happening. The desk sergent then asked hb investigator if it had been explained to me what would happen next. Um no was the reply so then the hb investigator said to me that what would happen next was I would receive a letter telling me that my benefits have been stopped and a letter to attend court. Then I was free to go. As I said in my first post I haven't received anything other than very vague letters.

[charlie's cat]

As another poster said, if you do a SAR it won't contain anything that relates to the current investigation but it may make the DWP a bit twitchy that you have requested one - it usually flags up the fact that someone with knowledge is helping the 'customer'.

 

In the meantime it may be worth sending an email about this situation to your local MP - keep it factual with dates like you have done here, and request that they offer you advice/guidance about what to do as no-one from DWP appears to be clear and consistent about what is happening.

 

As a side note your case does seem extreme - a friend of mine was taken in for IUC after having her BF living with her for 18 months whilst claiming as a single person, but she wasn't arrested.

 

As another said, they must think that this fraud has been going on for years...have they at any time shown you what evidence they have?

[jadeybags]

I was never asked to attend ANY IUC's. I knew nothing of any investigation until as I said they all turned up at my front door !!

 

Just noticed this bit, I would be extreeemely surprised if this is just about a living together as husband & wife thing. It's just not the way it's done in those cases. They probably haven't disclosed all the details yet, as they don't want evidence going missing? Did they remove anything from your home? The fact it's going through the police & you're on bail, they need to let you know that you've been NFA'd usually. Until that happens the investigation is still going on & you could still be charged I would say.

[sadone]

I agree It all sounds very odd. May I ask the OP how long you've been claiming benefits? And in the second interview at the police station did you not get even the tiniest of hints at what they think you've done?

 

Do you think they suspect you've been working and not declaring it as It does seem ott for a simple living together offense.

[worried33]

isnt the 2 months from submitting appeal to reconsideration a long time as well?

[dottyaussie]

After the second interview I was again released without charge and no longer on bail. Yes they did take things from my home and asked me about these at both interviews. The only questions they asked me were about my ex-partner, nothing about whether or not I had been working. The questions they asked my ex-partner were also the same. He was also released after the first interview without charge and without bail (they originally arrested him with aiding and abetting). That in its self was a farse as after he was arrested an officer at the police station asked the police at my home what he had been arrested for (I overheard them on the radio) The police didnt know and it was the woman from DWP who had to tell them why he had been arrested !!! They never asked him in for a second interview either. The other evidence they had were statements from two of my neighbours which they had done during the 7hrs I was at the police station waiting to be interviewed.

[charlie's cat]

Dotty, it would really help others to give you advice if you could answer a few of the questions that have been asked.

 

What exactly is it that they are accusing you of, and what evidence did they show you to back their accusation up?

 

Did they read out dates and times that your ex has been living with you? Photos of him coming and going?

 

What are the 'things' that you say they took from your house?

 

And as for charging your ex with aiding and abetting, what is it that he is supposedly aiding and abetting you with?

 

And what has your solicitor told you?

 

It just seems like you are being vague with your responses of 'I don't know'...surely your solicitor, DWP and the Police have given you something written down that states what you're accused of?

[dottyaussie]

When I was arrested the police said it was for benefit fraud that is it. The duty soliciter told me before I was interviewed it was because they were saying I had been living with a partner. Neither the DWP or the Council actually said this in the interview they just bombarded me with all the questions. As I have said before the questions were about my ex-partner. They said they had evidence of him coming and going, they read out ONE example " He left at 6.30am, arrived at work and got into a white van" I said right so he went to work and then got into a white van. She then looked at her notes and said " Actually no he arrived at work and there were white vans arriving" She said there were a number of other occasions. She NEVER then mentioned when these other times or dates were. They then went on to a Virign Media bill which they had taken from my home. My ex-partner pays this bill each month as part of his agreed maintenence payment for the kids. Incidently myself & my ex-partner were both written to a few years ago by DWP for an IUC about child support where we had told them about how he pays maintence and they were happy with that and never heard from them again.

The other thing they showed me was a letter about car insurance which he had taken out for me. This must have been from before 2009 because I havent driven a car since then because of my anxiety problems. They read out bits from statements they had. One from my neighbour saying "They all moved in as a family about 10yrs ago" . I moved into my house with my kids on 1 June 2000, my ex-partner's passport clearly shows he didnt even enter the country till Oct 2001, he stayed for a couple of weeks then went back to Australia. They spoke to my landlord, his landlord and also they guy who shares the house with him but didnt read out those statements. The statement from my ex-partners boss said "We all went to Australia last xmas (2010) and he and his son went there in August and that his son didnt want to come back" Well for one thing my kids don't even have passports to be able to leave the country, I'm sure my dad and my sister who live there would remember if we had been there, and I can prove from phone bills that I spoke to my dad & my sister over christmas. As for him & his son going over in August, yes he did go to see his mum who was ill but he never took 'his son who didnt want to come back', because once again the kids dont have passports, the said son was working and living with me. So all that was my ex having a conversation with his boss and talking a load of **** as he usually does.

As for aiding and abetting this again was not clarified. As I said even the police didnt know what he was being charged with until they spoke to the DWP woman who was at my house. I asked the provided solicitor about it later when I phoned him with the numerous questions I had and he said they are probably saying he was living with me and knew I was receiving benefits.

I also asked him how long do they think this has been going on for because neither the DWP or Council had said. He was unsure but seemed to think it was 2006.

The appointed solicitor couldn't really answer my other questions as 'benefit fraud' wasn't his area of expertise so he gave me the phone number of a collegue who deals with benefit cases from the same company who is in Chester. His advice was to wait for DWP's decision. Also that he couldn't deal with my case because I live out of there juristriction.

The vague letter I received on 22nd March 2012 states: Your claim for employment and support allowance, a change in the employment support allowance rate payable

We have looked at your clain again following a recent change.

We cannot pay youu Employment and Support Allowance from 18 Nov 2011.

You are not getting any more income-related Employment Support Allowance.

We cannot pay you because your partner is working 24 hours a week or more. If your partner is working 24 hours a week or more you are not entiled to ESA as your partner is treated as being in full time employment.

We cannot pay you because you have not paid, or been credited with enough NI contributions.

We have used the tax years ending 5 April 2009 and 5 April 2010 to asses your claim.

Your partner may be required to take part in a Work Focused Interview with a Personal Adviser once you have been claiming benefits for more than 26 weeks. Your partner will be notified if they are required to attend.

We may still credit you with NI contributions while claiming Employment Support Allowance.

The rest goes on to say if you want to appeal fill in form GL24. They also included a leaflet 'Jobseekers Allowance Disagreeing with a decision' INF1 (JSA) 10/11

 

So apart from the bail form telling me when to appear next which I was given after the first interview, this current letter and the letter from the council saying that my HB and CT have been temporarily suspended because 'DWP have notified us that you have had a change in your entitlement to ESA' and that 'Payment will cease from 2 April 20112' no I have not received anything else as I have said.

[dottyaussie]

OMG I have just read through my last post and now I feel like I am living through the whole thing again. So anyway at the end of July 2011 a week after the traumatised attendance at tribunal regarding ESA I ended up in hospital with severe stomach pains I had been having for the week. My anxiety and panic attacks are mainly due to my health so I was in a state. After several test I was found to have a 10cm mass on my left ovary. Then came the test for the cancer !!! I was in hospital for just over a week during which time I told my ex that this was it I obviously had it and now he had to step up and look after the kids. My dad and my sister were starting to make plans to come over. Thankfully the test came back clear but I still had to have a operation to remove mass. Had operation where they cut me open from belly button to pubic area. Next day I had two seperate visits from very sorry looking surgeon and consultant to say they had found nothing wrong, all internal bits were healthy including bowel which they looked through because they couldnt find mass anywhere else. The mass turned out to be my uterus !!!

So the time I was in hospital the ex stayed at my house to look after the kids and on & off till the end of till August when he went to see his mum. When he returned he again had stayed on & off as my health was deteriorating as I was trying to deal with all the hospital stuff, failing the tribunal, reclaiming, having my medication increased. I felt as if I was in a complete alternate universe. My ex and I told the DWP & Council about all this at the interview as I thought this is what it was about. My ex did speak to Jobcentre plus about being a carer but was told he would not be able to claim for it.

So since all the arresting thing happened my docter has prescibed me with diazapam, arranged for me to have CBT which I have had five sessions of now, and I have a carer who comes round twice a week.