CTAX pre committal hearing

[outlawla]

Hi survivor

 

Glad to hear you're not letting them off the hook

 

This letter contains links to the relevant legislation which allows local authorities to apply to the Magistrates court for the purpose of quashing council tax liability orders.

 

Quashing Liability Order and offer of compensation

[outlawla]

An additional link to those in the letter:

 

The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 2004, Statutory instrument 2004/927 Regulation 5(2).

[survivor_13]

Hi Outlawla,

 

Lovely to hear. I will check out those links later and prepare a letter for 1st class post tomorrow. Thanks a lot.

 

S13

[survivor_13]

Hi All,

 

Recently received a letter from the Council regarding council tax arrears dated from 2002. They are considering committal proceedings but want to give me an opportunity to make a payment arrangement. OH went bankrupt in 2011 and the council tax was included in his bankruptcy, however they are now chasing me for the full amount of the debt.

 

Firstly, can they do this? What should I do to prepare for this meeting. I requested a SARS early 2012 and have not received any information.

 

ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED....

[Batfink]

If the council tax bill was in joint names, then yes they can.

[ploddertom]

They must provide proof they had a Liability Order granted. It is not enough for them to say the money was owed.

[survivor_13]

Thanks Batfink, yes it was. I guess I need to plan and prepare for this meeting, any ideas? I might opt for a hearing as it is going to take quite a few years to pay this bill.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[survivor_13]

Hi Ploddertom,

 

Should I ask for this proof at the meeting. As mentioned above I might opt for a committal hearing as this bill is going to take a few years to pay.

Any suggestions?

[ploddertom]

If you "opt" for a Committal Hearing you do realise you get saddled with the cost of this - possibly £300 - added to what you owe. A Hearing of this type is to find out why you have not paid and if it can be seen you have made no efforts then a prison sentence can result.

 

You are far better off payin a little each week so they can see you are attempting to pay - £5 every Thursday for example. Have they not asked you to provide Income & Expenditure to prove you are a "can't pay" rather than a "won't pay". They may decide to use an Attachment of Earnings/Benefits as a way of enforcement instead where the monies are deducted at source - if you are working then this can be quite punitive as they can take up to 17% of what you earn each pay day. Any non-priority debts will be disregarded - Credit Cards etc as they expect you to pay the bare minimum on these. This should not be treated lightly.

[Consumer dude]

They must provide proof they had a Liability Order granted. It is not enough for them to say the money was owed.

 

His is proof confirmed I wonder ?

[survivor_13]

Hi All,Meeting is on Wednesday at 4pm. I have been to the Citizens Advice Bureau and they have helped with Income & Expenditure Form. I will be presenting this to do with a with a weekly payment plan. I have been advised of the pros and cons if I should go to court.I will update on Thursday. Thanks for all your help and advice.S13

[Martin Shaun]

wow! did you provide proof ..they accept yours nice!

[survivor_13]

Dear Outlawla & Ploddertom,

 

I do hope you are both well. Council Tax has reared its ugly head AGAIN and this time in the form of Committal to Prison. I have a hearing on the 16th December 2013 @ 11.30am. If committed do I go to prison on that day or would it be set for a later date.

 

Thanks Guys

S13

[fletch70]

I believe that if you are sent to prison you would go there and then.

 

Obviously i do not know the back story so I can not comment on anything else

[ploddertom]

I'd agree with the above. I will move this to the Bailiff Forum for further responses.

[lookinforinfo]

I am sorry to read your post-it must be a worrying time for you.

 

In your other thread you said that you ad been declared bankrupt a few years ago, so the Council cannot be claiming CT from before that time.

 

I also understand that Citizens Advice were helping you for a similar hearing back in July. Did that not go ahead?

 

Could you please bring us up to date as you have provided insufficient information for us to help. That being said, it would be very rare to send someone to prison for an inability to pay their CT. That is usually

reserved for those who can afford to pay, but choose not to.

 

You will need to provide income and expenditure information to the Court . I take it that you have not used Freeman of the Land as a defence in the past.

[sgtbush]

Very few people that have a commital hearing actually are sent to prison..

my understanding is that they only use this as a very very last resort, for people that basically stick 2 fingers up to the court and willfully Wont pay.

if your in such dire straights as you CANT pay for financhal reasons, such as other bills CSA rent arrears JSA ESA disability monies and are just unable to pay due to something like that AND you want to pay, at least something, just not the rates the council etc are wanting you wont be sent down.

 

BUT you need to take all evidence with you to prove your case.

 

words to say in court are

i want to pay, i just cant because of x y z and here is evidence of this, i want to pay and i can afford this but i need help etc etc

i have found that people that ask for help, even at the 11th hour, will get help.

 

they only jail people that WONT pay, not people that cant------ but you need evidence.

 

please post back with your results please

[fletch70]

I am sorry to read your post-it must be a worrying time for you.

 

In your other thread you said that you ad been declared bankrupt a few years ago, so the Council cannot be claiming CT from before that time.

 

I also understand that Citizens Advice were helping you for a similar hearing back in July. Did that not go ahead?

 

Could you please bring us up to date as you have provided insufficient information for us to help. That being said, it would be very rare to send someone to prison for an inability to pay their CT. That is usually

reserved for those who can afford to pay, but choose not to.

 

You will need to provide income and expenditure information to the Court . I take it that you have not used Freeman of the Land as a defence in the past.

 

It was the posters OH who was declared BR but the CT bill was in both names so any arrears can be claimed.

 

I would say however that anyone who tries the freeman defence needs a serious reality check

[sgtbush]

It was the posters OH who was declared BR but the CT bill was in both names so any arrears can be claimed.

 

I would say however that anyone who tries the freeman defence needs a serious reality check

 

i agree with the advice of NOT going down the freeman of the land route. it does not work, all the videos posted on youtube etc do not tell the whole story.

[renegadeimp]

You will only go to prison if you tell the judge to his face you wont be paying the debt. If you can only afford £1 a month and can prove it, then there is no chance of going to prison, and if a judge orders you to, then he risks getting into very serious trouble.

[fletch70]

With respect renegade and without wishing to alarm the OP , unless you know all the details of the case you can not make such a positive assertion.

 

Yes it is extremely unlikely that if this is a first hearing you would go to prison unless you used to ripe language to the judge.

 

Please remember that even if you were sent down the debt still exists so it's not a case of either or, its pay or prison and pay.

 

Judges are however only human and if you show willingness to pay what you can afford and stick to it then you should be ok

[renegadeimp]

I can make the assertion. Prison is only used for those who have no intention of paying. Whether they say outright or use every trick in the book to evade the courts.

[fletch70]

I assume then that you know all the back history to this case which does of course put you at an advantage over the rest of us. If you do not know the full history , with respect you can not say for certain

[Consumer dude]

I often wonder how liability orders are enforced when the majority of the time no liability order is ever seen..

[Ian olney]

I'm with Renegadeimp on this one:

 

 

Commitment to prison

 

47. (1) Where a billing authority has sought to levy an amount by distress under regulation 45, the debtor is an individual who has attained the age of 18 years, and the person making the distress reports to the authority that he was unable (for whatever reason) to find any or sufficient goods of the debtor on which to levy the amount, the authority may apply to a magistrates' court for the issue of a warrant committing the debtor to prison.

(2) On such application being made the court shall (in the debtor’s presence) inquire as to his means and inquire whether the failure to pay which has led to the application is due to his wilful refusal or culpable neglect.

(3) If (and only if) the court is of the opinion that his failure is due to his wilful refusal or culpable neglect it may if it thinks fit—

(a)issue a warrant of commitment against the debtor, or

(b)fix a term of imprisonment and postpone the issue of the warrant until such time and on such conditions (if any) as the court thinks just