Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[nolegion]

"One equal temper of heroic hearts…"

 

I will never forgive DWATO for they way it has treated my family over the past two years.

[reallymadwoman]

Already contacted a couple of press folks who might be interested.

 

Anyone who is or may be affected by this needs to start shouting about it.

 

Email your MP. Email any MP who has ever defended us against ATOS. If your MP is Tom Greatrex, email him twice.

 

You could also contact your local paper.

 

I'm adapting something I wrote on this subject last weekend to suit and will hopefully put it up here by the morning. If anyone then wants to copy it to their local paper or anyone else that may be interested, they will be welcome to it.

[Dilizjo]

you post it I'll forward it:) to anybody and everybody I can think of

[reallymadwoman]

'Press Release' as promised.

 

 

What are they frightened of?

 

To record or not to record, that was the question. The answer, unfortunately, appears to be not. The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) and/or ATOS Healthcare, the company contracted to carry out ‘work capability assessments’ on behalf of the DWP have allegedly withdrawn the facility for claimants to have their assessments audio recorded barely 5 months after Chris Grayling MP, Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, revealed that such a facility existed, and before claimants were officially told about it.

 

Official notifications or not, some claimants did know and asked for their assessment to be recorded. Most of them are still waiting up to 4 months later due to shortages of both equipment and staff willing to go on record. Some simply couldn’t afford to wait any longer and had to go ahead with their assessment regardless. The author has so far only found one person whose medical has been successfully recorded since the supposed national roll-out toward the end of 2011. A recent Freedom of Information request (http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/audio_recording_devices) has revealed that there are barely enough audio recorders available for each of the 141 assessment centres to have one available once every three weeks. No wonder there are delays when the pilot study completed last year (http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/wca-recording-pilot-report.pdf) indicated that ATOS could expect to have to record around 5000 assessments a week.

 

So it seems that even though no effort has been made to tell claimants that they can have their assessment audio recorded and no one has organised enough equipment to do it, the government can allegedly justify withdrawing the facility as uneconomical because of the extremely low take up.

 

That is clearly just an excuse, and not even a very good one. So what is really going on? Have ATOS made a unilateral decision not to allow audio recording, and could it be because a reluctance to be recorded on the part of ATOS staff is actually the root cause? If so, what exactly are they worried about? Surely, if they’re ‘experts in the functional assessment of disability’ who ‘ensure that their work meets the requisite quality standards’ (DWP website, http://www.dwp.gov.uk/healthcare-professional/guidance/atos-healthcare/) they couldn’t possibly be frightened of anyone having indisputable evidence to contrary, could they?

[Dilizjo]

Excellent:)

[Nystagmite]

I attend a support group and benefits were mentioned. I will pass this on; as several of us are on ESA / IB.

 

I would love to know how this can be justified. I have a head injury and one problem I have is memory loss. I can have an appointment, walk out and forget everything I was told.

[reallymadwoman]

I can have an appointment, walk out and forget everything I was told.

 

I think I've told you before how my kids used to take advantage of my memory problems.

 

Just had a long chat with my husband and he's willing to back me all the way on this.

 

It may be a while before what I do has any effect (if it ever does) so it may not help anyone going through all this right now, but it's because of people like worried who've got no choice but to go along with whatever the DWP throw at them that we feel I really have no choice but to fight them.

 

The last people to upset me this much were Bank of Scotland, and I ended up costing them a small fortune.

[**Margaret**]

worried 33: An incredibly small world! A rare outing this afternoon was to post a

letter to Atos at Nottingham asking for a recorded interrogation!!

 

nolegion: 'I will never forgive DWATO'. So , know exactly how you feel.

Think I do anyway, they've wrecked my friend's life.

 

Anyone else who's listening, reading or still standing:

 

Yep, push has come to shove with Mr Grayling et al.

Too tired for anything else tonight but tomorrow's another day.

 

Time to:sleep::sleep:, Margaret.

[Simon7685]

I have just fired off the email, I made a slight alteration to specifically blame ATOS as ringing people up, acting on the instruction of the DWP.

 

Below is a general version of the body of the email that people can copy and use to send, just add your own specific circumstances.

 

Dear Mr Grayling

 

 

 

Recording of ESA Assessments

 

I am currently in the process of being migrated to ESA from Income Support on Incapacity grounds. Following completion of the ESA 50 I was called by ATOS to attend a medical assessment. Despite not being advised by either the DWP or ATOS that I was entitled to have the assessment recorded, I have exercised my right and requested a recorded assessment.

 

I have done so by requesting a recording through both the DWP and ATOS. I would like to make you aware that I have done this because I have no confidence in ATOS providing either a fair or accurate account of my capabilities.

 

 

 

It has been brought to my attention today that ATOS are are now telephoning claimants and advising them that the facility has been withdrawn and all assessments will be carried out without a recording, apparently acting on instruction from the DWP. This would seem to be contradictory to the information given previously. I would be grateful if you could advise me exactly what the situation is?

 

 

There are a great many claimants being railroaded through this process despite even the BMA calling the process unfair. Genuine people with medical problems do not have anything to hide from any assessment being recorded and it would seem that the only people that do are ATOS, presumably as it will show their clear biased and less than factual findings since carrying out these assessments.

 

 

 

I hope that the information I have received regarding this matter is incorrect and that you can confirm this? It is not right in 2012 that people should be expected to attend any assessment that can have far reaching consequences for them physically, mentally and financially without being allowed to have the process recorded, which removes any element of doubt when an appeal is necessary following the many incorrect decisions made as a result of an inaccurate assessment carried out by ATOS.

 

 

We may be disabled or suffering from health issues but Mr Grayling we are still human beings with a right to expect a fair assessment of our capabilities.

 

 

I look forward to receiving a swift response.

 

 

Yours sincerely

( I was going to use very rude name here but didn't want to offend anyone)

 

Hope this is of some use to some of you, I intend to send it to IDS too.

[reallymadwoman]

I think this is important enough to have a new thread to get more attention

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?356906-ATOS-telling-claimants-recorded-assessments-have-been-withdrawn&p=3898604#post3898604

[Simon7685]

Can anybody please let me know which site the other one is and where to find the relevant thread, a link might be good. Not sure if it is against forum rules or not but it would really help.

 

Also what does DWATO stand for, sorry I can't work it out. Thick or what:oops:

[nolegion]

Publicity must be right.

 

As regards things that can be done in addition to those helpfully mentioned already, perhaps I may propose people consider using a 'Site-We –CAN- Mention'.

 

It's charitable\not-for-profit and Erika PNP has specifically OK-ed to link this in the past i.e. the 'FoI' What-Do-They-Know or 'WDTK':-

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/

 

1. The entirely free registration process is so well explained and unthreatening that even I almost got it right first time.

 

2. Use a sensible but not 'over-informative' name (there are notes there on this).

 

3 Ask away.

 

It takes a bit of time, but it's a doddle.

 

The principal point is that this goes straight into the DWP, and the DWP's automated acknowledgment system means that you get a receipt which cannot be denied.

 

Another point is that, apart from the automated response, the DWP has no 'week- end capacity'…

 

..so it's always possible that if contributors\ viewers\ their friends\relations\advisers got busy, then next Monday could see one hell of an 'in-box' for them (!)- specifically aimed at the apparent U-turn on recording. And there is a 'questions-counter' at WDTK which has already risen very steeply this year. Make it jump?

 

And, I suggest, it would be helpful, and courteous to this site, to remember to report here how you, eventually, get on.

 

Just a thought.

 

N.B. Ask a genuinely considered question about 'currently recorded' policy not future intentions e.g. 'Please provide currently recorded information (i.e. as at today's date), as to whether or not Atos can refuse to provide a recorded WCA if an ESA claimant has so requested in advance?'

 

(I'm sure others would have better wording than that; just don't be 'vexatious' – this gives them a statutory 'let-out '.)

[nolegion]

Also what does DWATO stand for, sorry I can't work it out.

 

Apologies. "DWATO" is, if you like , a piece of nonsense from me.

 

But it has a very serious intent.

 

The point is that it took (literally) decades for the law to decide that you cannot cannot libel 'government' - including a government department or local authority (as long as individuals are not identified who might have separate 'rights of action').

 

Nevertheless, it is the threat of (prohibitively expensive to defend) actions for alleged libel which constrains commentary on even the most well-regulated sites, like this. The website-owner and even its ISP can be held responsible for the publication of alleged 'libel' against private companies, even when they are acting on behalf of a government department such as the DWP

 

Hence "DWATO": for, genuinely, how are we to know where the DWP's brainless front-end and its, in my view, contemptible, er, back-end, starts or finishes?

Edited July 5, 2012 by nolegion

[reallymadwoman]

Hence "DWATO": for, genuinely, how are we to know where the DWP's brainless front-end and its, in my view, contemptible, er, back-end, starts or finishes?

 

A bit like a push-me-pull-you then?

[nolegion]

Or hole-in-one

[rainbo]

...one problem I have is memory loss. I can have an appointment, walk out and forget everything I was told.

 

My ex-husband has anxiety disorders, and just the sheer stress of the day of the WCA appointment (including having to travel on buses/train to get to/from the WCA, and having to sit in the waiting room with other people, AND then talk about his condition to a stranger) means he doesn't remember 90% of the WCA. I go with him to be his eyes and ears, but even good memory (which I don't always have!) isn't perfect.

[reallymadwoman]

My memory isn't just bad, it's unreliable. I think it uses pure imagination to fill in details I don't remember, so even if I remember something I can't be sure it actually happened.

 

As you might imagine that makes relationships with other people interesting at times, especially before I was diagnosed.

[reallymadwoman]

My new ATOS appointment arrived this morning.

 

They have decided to do a home assessment.

 

The letter quite clearly says 'this will be recorded assessment as requested'.

 

Unfortunately it is for one of the dates I gave them as 'unavailable' so it will have to be rearranged again, but never mind.

[Simon7685]

How long have you waited since your first appointment date for them to arrange this one?

 

How convenient that they choose a date when you advised them you weren't available. What s the odds on them coming back and saying well we will arrange another appointment but it will not be recorded as the equipment will not be available and the DWP have advised us that your assessment must be carried out by this date...............

[reallymadwoman]

My ESA50 went back beginning of April. This is the third appointment they have offered me, the first two were both at an assessment centre where I will be refused admission as I can't get down the stairs in an emergency.

 

I'm not holding my breath over whether we'll be back to square one with the next appointment or whether it will still be a recorded home assessment.

[worried33]

am waiting for the DWP to ring me back, they sounded surprised when I mentioned it.

[wobbly]

Could be ATOS trying it on,no doubt all will be revealed in due course.They appear the only ones who are against recording "medicals " could it be that their employees will have to accurately record what they do and what the victim says.

[Simon7685]

OOPS.........

 

I have to confess to a bit of a cock up here guys, sorry.........

 

The DWP called me today and I was totally unprepared for them. After going through the usual security, she said she was calling regarding the letter I had sent them. She said obviously most of the letter was about my feelings towards ATOS and they wanted to deal with some of the questions that I had raised.

 

The bottom line was to emphasise on me that following my assessment there will be no immediate decision made that will result in me losing my benefit and she wanted to categorically state that no way would my benefit be stopped without me being told beforehand, as that was not how they do things in that office. She said that if I failed to score 15 points, they would make a decision and then contact me to ask if there was any additional information I could add that may change the decision. If not the claim would then be passed to a second decision maker to check to see if the right decision had been made, at which point they will contact me again to ask if I have anything else for them to consider, that could change the decision. If they then decide not to award ESA I will be contacted and advised of the result and given my options, this would then be followed up with written confirmation.

 

She stated that absolutely no way would my money be stopped with out my prior knowledge and the making of any decision would not be immediate following the assessment as they have a lot of cases to action in that office. She then went on to add that my assessment of 11 July had been cancelled and that there was no date on the system as to when a recorded assessment would be available. Regarding the matter of us going away around the 23rd July, she said it was extremely unlikely that any assessment would be made prior to this date but the best thing to do was to ring ATOS just before going away to verify that no assessment was due to take place whilst I was not available. I advised her that any decision regarding going away was subject to change as in we may not go away unless my health allows it. She said that it really should not be an issue and that I was to go away with my family and enjoy ourselves and not worry about anything to do with any assessment.

 

On the whole it was actually difficult to get a word in edgeways and on reflection it did sound that she was almost reading from a prepared response. Do I entirely believe the process of this "journey" as described by the DWP as entirely accurate? More than likely not, she gave it to sound like I should expect a long drawn out affair following the assessment and logic dictates that probably is unlikely to be the case.

 

However, today I was in a lot of pain and was not expecting this call, was I prepared? No I wasn't.

Was I ready to fire a lot of questions back at her? No I wasn't, my mind went completely blank and before I knew where I was the call was over.

The most annoying thing and definately a cock up.........

I missed the opportunity to ask if the recording of assessments had been stopped....... SORRY!!!!!

 

I feel like I missed a good opportunity here, I didn't feel good and just wasn't expecting such a quick response. I also forgot to ask them to put all this in writing, so a lesson learned and advice for everyone, don't drop the ball and expect the unexpected.

 

I will now have to wait to see what ATOS do!

[osdset]

She said that if I failed to score 15 points, they would make a decision and then contact me to ask if there was any additional information I could add that may change the decision. If not the claim would then be passed to a second decision maker to check to see if the right decision had been made, at which point they will contact me again to ask if I have anything else for them to consider, that could change the decision. If they then decide not to award ESA I will be contacted and advised of the result and given my options, this would then be followed up with written confirmation.

 

I received notification from the DWP two weeks after the WCA informing me that I had 0 points, therefore I did not have LCFW and that my benefit had stopped as from the last payment. A bit different from the process they have outlined to you, I smells a rat.

[reallymadwoman]

I received notification from the DWP two weeks after the WCA informing me that I had 0 points, therefore I did not have LCFW and that my benefit had stopped as from the last payment. A bit different from the process they have outlined to you, I smells a rat.

 

Whilst accepting that people who have had no problems with money being stopped unexpectedly etc are unlikely to post on a forum, I agree that what Simon was told isn't quite the experience of most people on here.