Announcement: ESA claimants now have the option of having their WCA recorded

[nolegion]

Here goes, RMW, as requested, but please note, all, that this is outdated text.

 

In fact, it originates from one of the few 'semi-official dispensations' even before the official 'pilot' last year. But the same was used later (bar reference to CD rather than tape), I am informed.:-

 

"I acknowledge that copyright and all other rights in the recording remain with Atos Origin and in consideration of the provision of the tape recording by Atos Origin undertake:

 

• To keep such recording confidential and not to make it available in any public domain;

 

• To disclose it only to my professional advisers, members of the Department for Work and Pension and people acting on their behalf;

 

• To use it solely in connection with my claim for social security benefits; and

 

• To make copies of the recording only to the extent that the same is strictly

required for the above purposes."

 

(can't link: site-we-don't-mention, to which nevertheless I must say I am obliged)

 

And it is, in my view, tripe.

 

As in:-

 

"M'Lud: On the basis of a document which a benefits claimant in calamitous health had never seen prior to attending a state subcontractor's premises but was made to sign without even being able to take legal advice, and which a) asserts a technical copyright ridiculously artificial in the circumstances, and b) purports to forbid her going through the personal matters discussed even with her husband… I seek an injunction to restrain any further disclosure of a recording which, whether or not it may reveal callous, oppressive and deceitful official behaviour severely detrimental to whatever might be left the claimant's life let alone livelihood, should be forever withheld from public scrutiny …and submit that, in considering this application, the entirely coincidental fact that the claimant's address is Winterbourne, Bristol. whence the televised screening of covert footage of utterly disgraceful, contemptible treatment of the highly vulnerable in state care undoubtedly stopped any further such abuse in its wretched tracks, should be entirely banished from your Lordship's mind …"

 

Or something like that.

 

The current 'agreement' is reported to be much worse - and, amongst other things, seeks to control what you could do with any notes\transcript taken from a recording as well. But I haven't seen any copy I care to trust yet.

 

Updated, accurate, text would be gratefully received.

[count orlok]

I would imagine in order to protect themselves ATOS would have to make it so that any recordings could not be shown to the tribunal!

[**Margaret**]

Thanks for the invite Nolegion. Very happy to accept.

 

So mad with Atos they've driven me to computer literacy .

Been reading CAG for years but have only just learnt how to join in.

 

Long story short, a friend's still trying to recover from an unfit for purpose

incap farce sixteen months ago. Was intending to take notes (had to wave

handbook at them) but couldn't cope with friend's distress and notes at same

time. Audio record would have avoided the expense and wait, thirteeen months

and counting, for tribunal.

 

My story; I'm in the middle of reassessment for employment and support.

Trying to avoid getting shafted again, so I'll be as assertive as possible for audio

recording. With a notetaker as plan B!!!

 

What is their problem? Oh yes, they lost even a semblance of integrity:doh:.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[nolegion]

Count orlok: I have absolutely no doubt that that is what DWATO would want - but I am damned if that is what they will achieve!

 

Starry-E \(M): Good wishes kindly received and reciprocated. Sorry to learn about the severe hassle your friend and you have been going though. In so far as it is my place to say so: Welcome Aboard.

[whitecraig_wizard]

Just a thought, if you really want to get up the ATOS nose so to speak. You can always enquire about their Equality Imapct Assessment that MUST have been carried out to in respect of this policy change; another question is the Disability Equality Duty as they are acting for and on behalf of a statuatory authority and MUST comply with this piece of legislation; finally when all else fails the Equalities Act.If you are somebody protected by the EA then you should be complaining to the Equalities and Human Rights Commission if you feel that you have been unfairly discriminated against. The more complaints made makes it more difficult not to investigate

[Simon7685]

Quick Update;

 

Royal Mail have finally managed to deliver my letters posted on Monday, 4 days for 1st class recorded signed for, what a wonderful service they supply!

Anyway that's that now, lets see what happens next.

 

Incidentally should I receive a cancellation letter from ATOS regarding the cancelled assessment on 11 July?

[Dilizjo]

I doubt it Simon I keep asking them for verification in writing of the cancellations but as yet have not received 1, but I keep pushing.

[speedfreek]

As well as ATOS the DWP have access to the booking system if my memory serves me right. Not to make changes but for notifications of Assessment dates etc.

 

My strategy was always 2 pronged,

 

1, cancel with ATOS and get that confirmed in writing.

2, contact the DWP to confirm that they can see that the appointment has been canceled and if they could see a new date.

 

Call me paranoid (not half) but I do like to be thorough in ensuring my ass is covered.

 

Oh and I do laugh when people report that there is a limit on the number of cancellations you can request although that is dependent on reasons. If it is solely down to your fault then too many could be seen (rightly so) as taking the Michael. On the other hand if the issues are being caused by ATOS and their failures then although they might try it on you can have as many as you like.

 

I argued and got 4 cancellations due to them not considering my request for a home visit correctly. I'm sorry but we need to look at your file which is... is not a valid excuse so you will keep canceling until you do.

[**Margaret**]

Nolegion: Thanks for welcome.

 

Simon: In my experience a new appointment from Atos cancels the previous one, so don't hold your breath for a separate letter. Will next appointment offered be with recording facilities? How long's that bit of string?

 

Could rant for ever about Atos recording, or more to the point, not recording!

At our last encounter, recording would've exposed a nurse's ignorance of basic anatomy, and avoided the angst of a tribunal. Can't be having that now can we?

 

Tis my duty of care to myself, my family (and the taxpayer) to get my interrogation recorded.

 

Best wishes to everyone caught up in this fracas, Margaret.

[dpick]

In one case I helped with a recording would have shown that the ATOS person's report that MRS XXXXX had no problem comunicating was an absolute lie as the ATOS person was not able to understand her at all and had to ask me for help.

 

dpick

[worried33]

I had a phone call today stating the DWP have ordered no more recorded medicals and I am to get an appointment booked with no recording. So it seems they have decided to remove this right on a whim, I am in an unfortenate position I cannot have someone with me as a witness and will probably find it hard to discreetly record as well.

 

So it would seem the wishes of ATOS staff come before claimants and no questions have been asked as to why they would have a problem with their work been recorded if they are doing nothing wrong.

[speedfreek]

I had a phone call today stating the DWP have ordered no more recorded medicals and I am to get an appointment booked with no recording. So it seems they have decided to remove this right on a whim, I am in an unfortenate position I cannot have someone with me as a witness and will probably find it hard to discreetly record as well.

 

So it would seem the wishes of ATOS staff come before claimants and no questions have been asked as to why they would have a problem with their work been recorded if they are doing nothing wrong.

 

Demand that you have that confirmed and in writing! Who told you that by the way?

 

Did a recording yesterday with a Sansa Clip Zip. It was clipped facing outwards on my front jeans pocket and covered by my T-Shirt. Quality of the recording was excellent clear as a bell and both voices volume well balanced. Far better than my mobile phone has done in the past.

[worried33]

I will probably never get iut in writing.

[nolegion]

Worrtied33. A very similar post to yours has just appeared at that site-we-don't mention (within the hour.)

 

If a large number of people are now going to be phoned in this way I am sure there will be other developments to learn from shortly. 'Hang on in there,' and let's all see what else the net (or other media) tells us over the next couple of days.

 

Speedfreek. Useful info. If the 'policy' really has been reneged on by the DWP, I think it inevitable that many will proceed as you just have.

 

 

[worried33]

I probably cant hang in there long as I expect now an appointment within 2 weeks, I do have 4 hospital appointments during july so its possible it may fall on one of those dates which gives me good reason to cancel. But I cant see this been overturned.

[Simon7685]

I can't believe this, how can the DWP just decide that nobody can have recorded assessments anymore??? Even they can't get away with that surely. If they ring me, I will be demanding it in writing, together with confirmation from the Government that this is the case. I am very suspicious about this and wonder if it is just a try on by the DWP.

 

If high numbers of people are now requesting recordings, this will have a knock on effect on the number of assessments being carried out each week, which will again have a knock on effect on the figures.....

 

Does anyone have the Secretary of States email address? If so what is it and everyone needs to bombard him with emails about this.

[Simon7685]

Was the phone call from the DWP or ATOS? I am emailing Chris Grayling about it but your post isn't clear as to who rang you.

[Simon7685]

What does anyone think of this, I haven't sent it yet, so if anyone has any suggestions please say.

 

Dear Mr Grayling

 

 

 

Recording of ESA Assessments

 

I am currently in the process of being migrated to ESA from Income Support on Incapacity grounds. Following completion of the ESA 50 I was called by ATOS to attend a medical assessment. Despite not being advised by either the DWP or ATOS that I was entitled to have the assessment recorded, I have exercised my right and requested a recorded assessment.

 

 

I have also documented my reasons for doing this in a detailed letter to the DWP and also a letter to ATOS confirming the details of my cancelled assessment, I have attached both letters to this email for your convenience. Suffice to say that following a completely biased previous experience with ATOS, which involved one of their “Doctors”, I have no confidence that any assessment carried out by them would be either fair or necessarily truthful.

 

 

It has been brought to my attention today that either the DWP or ATOS are now telephoning claimants and advising them that the facility has been withdrawn and all assessments will be carried out without a recording. This would seem to be contradictory to the information given previously. I would be grateful if you could advise me exactly what the situation is?

 

There are a great many claimants being railroaded through this process despite even the BMA calling the process unfair. Genuine people with medical problems do not have anything to hide from any assessment being recorded and it would seem that the only people that do are ATOS, presumably as it will show their clear biased and what I know from experience is a less than honest or accurate process in carrying out these assessments.

 

 

I hope that the information I have received regarding this matter is incorrect and that you can confirm this? It is not right in 2012 that people should be expected to attend any assessment that can have far reaching consequences for them physically, mentally and financially without being allowed to have the process recorded, which removes any element of doubt when an appeal is necessary following the many incorrect decisions made as a result of an inaccurate assessments carried out by ATOS.

 

 

We may be disabled or suffering from health issues but Mr Grayling we are still human beings with a right to expect a fair assessment of our capabilities.

 

 

I look forward to receiving a swift response.

[worried33]

Was the phone call from the DWP or ATOS? I am emailing Chris Grayling about it but your post isn't clear as to who rang you.

 

They said medical services so ATOS, plus that they said was on the DWP orders, so was obviously ATOS.

[Dilizjo]

Simon great email..... get it fired off please.....

 

As you are showing a great aptitude for writing well informed and woeded letters maybe it would be possible for you to write a general draft letter regarding this matter and then those of us that are being given the run around by everyone involved with the WCAs, Then we can copy put in our relevant information and all bombard Chris Grayling with emails.......

 

Seeing that my MP is asking questions on my behalf I will email him and ask him if this is true as well and see what comes back. maybe a letter sent to all the newspapers demanding to know why they are not reporting this at all.....

[worried33]

I had a look at that other site, for reference my ATOS centre is also nottingham. I wish I had the balls to say what the other person did.

[reallymadwoman]

Tom Greatrex was the MP who asked the original pertinent questions in the Commons.

 

He may be very interested.

 

Also, I have specified on my ESA50 form that I need the assessment recorded because of my disability. If they refuse I intend to openly attempt to record the assessment then take it to a tribunal when they refuse to allow that and then withdraw my benefit. Since there has already been a tribunal case where DWP and ATOS were told to accommodate a recording, I stand a good chance of winning. And I can afford to be without benefit for long enough to do it.

[worried33]

Tom Greatrex was the MP who asked the original pertinent questions in the Commons.

 

He may be very interested.

 

Also, I have specified on my ESA50 form that I need the assessment recorded because of my disability. If they refuse I intend to openly attempt to record the assessment then take it to a tribunal when they refuse to allow that and then withdraw my benefit. Since there has already been a tribunal case where DWP and ATOS were told to accommodate a recording, I stand a good chance of winning. And I can afford to be without benefit for long enough to do it.

 

Thats my issue, I have no family willing to support me if I have no income, I guess they would maybe do it if absolutely forced to but I dont want to do something that they would see as deliberatly causing my benefits to stop such as getting ATOS to record a non attendance. Tommorow like the others I will contact my MP and also ask the DWP if ATOS told me the truth. Contacting IDS or Grarling direct I expect will yield no reply. IDS still not replied ot my email to him back in february.

[reallymadwoman]

Anyone who knows me well would at this moment be finding something urgent to do elsewhere since I'm one of those people who are really easy going until pushed just a tiny bit too far, and in my younger days being in my vicinity when someone had overstepped the mark was generally inadvisable.

 

ATOS/DWP have just given me an almighty shove. Now I'm a older I pick my fights carefully, and I have most definitely picked this one.

[Dilizjo]

Same here Reallymadwoman...... I am ready to go fight the good old ATOS fight:)