Court form received (Cabot)

[foxyflugel]

Hi everyone

 

I have received a court form from Cabots (Morgans Solicitors). Like Heathrows thread on here the POC are very vague and exactly the same wording.

 

It says it was assigned from Bank Of Scotland but I am thinking by the amount that it is RBOS. Back in 09/10 I went through a law firm to check if my agreements were enforceable (I believe things have changed since then regarding case law). They sent the law firm a letter saying they had not got the agreement but the monies were still owed etc etc.

 

I have received nothing further from them since then - other than RBOS credit card statements.Initially I was paying £1 a month until they provided the agreement and then me and my OH split up and I was having to borrow money to pay for everyday necessities ie, food, petrol to get to work and so stopped paying that also.

 

There is around £2.5K of the balance being claimed made up of default charges etc that have accumulated.

 

Do I reply as in Heathrows post for my defence? (taking out the fact that it is only one card not two) and sent a CPR31.14? asking for the agreement, statements and assignment notice? Is there anything else I should request?

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Foxy

Edited February 3, 2012 by foxyflugel

[MandM]

Hi foxyflugel.

 

Court form from Crapbots or from the court?

 

Assuming it's a legit doc from the court (stamped at least) then 31.14 to the Sols requesting only the docs mentioned in the POC. CPR18 for other docs/further info.

 

Watch your dates. If you're going to defend make sure to get your AOS back in time.

 

Get some more info up, I'm sure others will comment in due course.

 

Mike

[AndyOrch]

Mmmm mixing the assignors name up in the P.o.C this should be interesting.Now did we buy it from Bank of Scotland or Royal Bank of Scotland?

Wonder which NoA they will recreate.

 

Andy

[foxyflugel]

Thanks for the replies guys. Have completed the online AOS and sent a CPR 31.14 to sols by recorded delivery today. Let's see what/if anything comes back.

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Well I AM confused now - but is my guest??

 

I have received a reply from sols saying that I am not within my rights under 31.14 to inspect the docs I requested unless they are referred to specifically. They said that where there is no more than an inference, as opposed to a specific reference, to the existence of the doc, they are not bound under CPR 31.14 in that regard. Accordingly they are not required to provide me with any of the documentation referred to in my letter. Notwithstanding this, they have requested the requisite documentation and will forward the same to me following receipt. They have enclosed, for my considerration - Representation of NOA - sent to me on or around 25/5/11 - never seen it!! Representation of LBA, sent to me on or around 21/12/11 - never seen it!! Cabots stat of a/c - where they are adding 12% interest per month - however this stopped (well by the print out anyway - in Dec).

 

It says original account provider OPUS \Who are they - I have never had an opus card or loan??

 

On the POC it is very very brief and says the claimant is the assignee of a debt from BOS and CC Assett Management Non Co-brand ref XXXXXXX NOA having been given to the defendant in writing. Despite demand for payment £XXXXX reamins due. The claimant claims £XXXX and interest under S.69 County Courts Act 1984 and costs.

 

I don't even know who these people are!!!

 

Any advice will be welcome as always. I did find a very useful thread but I have been on here for hours and can't find it again. The person went through exactly the same and sent them a very good letter back - but I can't find the thread

 

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Hi again everyone

 

After doing an hour surfing on here this morning - it would appear that Opus is connected with Citibank - are they BOS??

 

Do I wait until the solicitors send me the documents? The court claim is dated 26 Jan and I have already completed AOS online.

 

Am I correct in thinking it is 33 days from that date for me to submit my defence?

 

How long do I give the solicitors to send me the other documents as I don't want to mess up with the timescales?

 

Thanks again

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

Can anyone please advise??

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[Always Struggling]

Hi Foxy, from my understanding it would be 26th Jan +5days for postal(31st Jan) +14days (14 Feb) to submit AoS +14days for defence submitted= 28th Feb.

 

Am just working on same worry of timescales at present in another thread if you want to look see:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?302500-Abbey-Santander-Santander-refuse-token-payments-then-send-defaults-out/page4#

 

Post #79 by CB for dates

[Always Struggling]

If you haven't sent off a Part18 asking any relevent questions then it might be an idea to keep an eye on the thread i posted above as CB has just mentioned asking for an extension.

 

Am just searching for info on CPR 15.5 at present.

[gezwee]

If you don't know or ack the assignee then put the question directly to cabots/Morgans [assume they've provided you with an e-mail addy for contact]

 

It can [and does] happen that they file against the wrong individual

 

State categorically that you do not recognise the claimant and are concerned that there has been a prejudicial fault in the chain of assignment. You require details of original creditor and dates/identities of chain of assignees prior to filing.

 

If you don't question now the dj may ask you why if it has to be decided at a hearing.

 

Suggest it would be sensible to agree a minimum 14 day extension to defence whilst they get their docs in order, as above post .... falls within part 15 but no need for legalese, just state the facts and request they agree an extension, as soon as they agree draft a note to the court and keep pressing them for docs on support of their claim. If they don't agree then state that you will have no option but to apply to strike out their statement of case and seek costs.

 

Don't dick around with them, it's a 2.5k claim with very limited opportunity for costs or interest..... this shouldn't take too much for them to either bail out or come to a compromise.

 

Gez

[foxyflugel]

Thanks for your replies guys - this makes perfect sense

 

Gezwee - the claim is for just under £10k - the £2.5k looks like is has just been interest added and default charges.

 

Many thanks

 

Foxy

[gezwee]

Hi Ff

 

The question still needs asking, who was the original creditor and what was/is the chain of assignment?

 

Don't let them off the hook, keep them under pressure and ask the question [in writing].

 

If you genuinely can't find a case to answer within their sketchy particulars then apply to have it struck out. If they have documentation required to enforce this and evidence of the assignment they'll need to provide it at the hearing.

 

Your alternative would be to enter a defence based on no knowledge of the debt.

 

Gez

[foxyflugel]

Cheers everyone - Thanks Gez.

 

I sent them a letter requesting an extension until the requested documentation is received and asking the info suggested by Gez . They replied saying they agreed and would contact me in due course - I let the court know and that was that. I still haven't received anything!!!

 

What are they playing at? it's now over a month down the line.

 

Foxy

[gezwee]

Hi Foxy

 

Check the date effective on the extension, deemed service of claim+ 56 days total........ from the dates in your previous post you may be a couple of days overdue already, you really have to get a defence filed. The alternative would be an application to strike out.

 

Gez

[foxyflugel]

Hi Gez

 

I was unaware of this (the 56 days thing) - I just took it that they would let me know the extension date (being when they provided me with the docs requested). They didn't state a date.

 

What shall I do now then?

 

Foxy

Edited March 31, 2012 by foxyflugel

[gezwee]

Hi Foxy

 

If the claim was issued through MCOL check that you can still login and enter a holding defence.

 

There's a few on the site if you search for them but tbh its best if its in your own words and in a context that you understand.

 

Just lay out the facts as you see them and what you have done in attempting to gain disclosure from the other side in order to better understand the case against you.

 

Have a go at drafting something, I'm sure you'll come up with a suitable defence if you put your mind to it.

 

Gez

[AndyOrch]

Hi Gez

 

I was unaware of this (the 56 days thing) - I just took it that they would let me know the extension date (being when they provided me with the docs requested). They didn't state a date.

 

What shall I do now then?

 

Foxy

 

Hi Foxy responding to your PM.

 

I can only add to Gez comments, if you are just over the deadline then you can speak to Northampton if MCOL is now barred,it shouldn't be, but get a short holding defence submitted rapid, today!!!

Its the defendants responsibilty to inform the court of any agreed extension and to keep an eye on the the time frame.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[foxyflugel]

Hi and thanks for your replies everyone ;-)

 

I called the court today (have not had time to sort a defence as I was out all day yesterday and in meetings all today), however, I did call the court as I couldn't get on MCOL (internet difficulties at work I think) and they said I should speak to the solicitors and confirmed that Morgans had not done anything on the case. Do I send in the holding defence just in case? I have today emailed Morgans to chase the docs I requested under CPR 31.14

 

After researching some posts on here - I was thinking of this for a holding defence:-

 

The Defendant is unable to plead due to the Claimants failure to comply with its CPR 31.14 duties in disclosing requested documents

 

The Claimant did agree to an extension of time given to the Defendant to file a defence whilst awaiting compliance to CPR 31.14 duties. A copy of this was forwarded to the court on 24th Feb 2012 whereby the Claimant stated they would ‘revert’ to the Defendant shortly – this has failed to occur. On 2nd April 2012 the Defendant requested an indication from the Claimant of when these would be received and to date has failed to receive a reply.

The Defendant reserves the right to amend this defence.

 

Is this ok? Then if it is I can submit it tomorrow if necessary.

 

Thanks

 

Foxy ;-)

Edited April 3, 2012 by foxyflugel

[foxyflugel]

Anyone??

 

Thanks

 

Foxy

[foxyflugel]

:help:

[citizenB]

I foxflugel of consumer action group am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by xxxxxxxxx .

 

1. The defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the particulars of claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

2. The claimant’s particulars of claim disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with cpr part 16. In this regard i wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

 

a) the particulars of claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to; the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant's claim.

 

B) a copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the particulars of claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

C) a copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

3. On receipt of the claim form the defendant sent a cpr 31.14 request for a copy of the agreement and supporting documents which forms the basis of this claim

 

4. The documents requested were, in addition to the agreement as above, statements or statement of account showing how the balance claimed has accrued, a copy of the default notice, the termination notice and the notice of assignment. To date no response has been received from the claimant.

 

5. It has been confirmed via the royal mail website that the above letter was received and signed for.

 

6: Furthermore, in an effort to not be disadvantaged by the claimant's failure to provide the very information their claim is based upon, i sought to request an extension of time under cpr15.5, in order for the claimant to provide the information requested.

 

7. The claimant agreed to the extension, however has still failed to comply with their CPR obligations.

 

8. Consequently, i deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof

 

9. I respectfully request a stay in proceedings until such time as the claimant complies with the requests outlined in paragraphs 3 and 4 above or until the court orders its compliance with the same. I will then be in a position to file a fully particularised defence and counterclaim and will seek the court’s permission to amend my statement of case accordingly.

 

 

Amend this to suit.

[foxyflugel]

Many thanks to CB for the above - much appreciated.

 

Just a quick update folks

 

I chased Morgans as they still haven't complied with my CPR request. I then received a letter saying they have requested the docs and it can take anything up to 12 weeks but they will not go for judgement in the meantime.

 

I faced the letter to the court and then, as I don't trust them one bit!!, I put my defence in (the one from CB above).

 

So I will have to wait now to see what happens. I have a couple of questions though - how long does the OC get to produce the docs? Can this drag on for months? and if so, is there anything I can do about it? In my defence I have requested a stay in proceedings until they comply - does this get considered now I have submitted my defence stating this?

 

Many thanks for all your help guys.

 

Foxy

[citizenB]

 

Did you also put into the defence that they had claimed it will take 12 weeks for the documents ?

 

It is ridiculous for them even to consider starting legal action without all the paperwork ??

[foxyflugel]

No I didn't CB - but I have faxed their letter to the court just to cover my own back

 

We will have to wait and see what happens now - I had a letter from the court to say that they had received my defence and if they don't file anything within 28 days it will be automatically stayed.

 

When/if/? they apply to lift the stay (if it gets to that stage) should I know about it? and can I object to it?

 

The reason I say this is because LTSB did exactly the same thing and then the stay was lifted and I knew nothing about the application until they sent me a copy when it had been granted!!

 

Many thanks as always - you guys are keeping me sane (just about)

 

Foxy

[asokn]

Applications to lift stays tend to be done without notice as they are procedural. When you receive the order it will contain details of your right to apply to set it aside though.