HSBC OD issues

[Bookworm]

Trying to merge all your threads. Is this post relating to the HSBC loan?

[Bookworm]

Which of your cases is this relating to? Trying to merge your thread together.

[rory32]

If it's an overdraft you may wish to read this http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/94575-cca-overdrafts-final-word.html?highlight=overdrafts

 

Overdrafts are exempt from s61(1) of The Consumer Credit Act under s74, but are not completely exempt from the Act. That means an agreement for an overdraft would look different from other credit agreements and does not need to be executed (signed and dated) by the debtor. Also the terms of the agreement are different.

 

An overdraft credit agreement only needs to show:

The credit limit (if any);

The annual rate of credit and any charges applicable, and the conditions under which these may be varied;

The procedure for terminating the agreement.

 

The above information must be confirmed in writing.

 

Some examples pertaining to overdrafts are shown below:

 

From the Consumer Credit Act 1974:

 

Facts. The manager of the C Bank agrees orally with D (an individual) to open a current account in D’s name. Nothing is said about overdraft facilities. After maintaining the account in credit for some weeks, D draws a cheque in favour of E for an amount exceeding D’s credit balance by £20. E presents the cheque and the Bank pay it.

Analysis. In drawing the cheque D, by implication, requests the Bank to grant him an overdraft of £20 on its usual terms as to interest and other charges. In deciding to honour the cheque, the Bank by implication accept the offer. This constitutes a regulated small consumer credit agreement for unrestricted-use, fixed-sum credit. It is a debtor-creditor agreement, and falls within section 74(1)(b) if covered by a determination under section 74(3).

 

Facts. F (an individual) has had a current account with the G Bank for many years. Although usually in credit, the account has been allowed by the Bank to become overdrawn from time to time. The maximum such overdraft has been is about £1,000. No explicit agreement has ever been made about overdraft facilities. Now, with a credit balance of £500, F draws a cheque for £1,300

 

Analysis. It might well be held that the agreement with F (express or implied) under which the Bank operate his account includes an implied term giving him the right to overdraft facilities up to say £1,000. If so, the agreement is a regulated consumer credit agreement for unrestricted-use, running-account credit. It is a debtor-creditor agreement, and falls within section 74(1)(b) if covered by a direction under section 74(3). It is also a multiple agreement, part of which (i.e. the part not dealing with the overdraft), as referred to in section 18(1)(a), falls within a category of agreement not mentioned in this Act.

 

Facts. Under an oral agreement made on 10th January, X (an individual) has an overdraft on his current account at the Y bank with a credit limit of £100. On 15th February, when his overdraft stands at £90, X draws a cheque for £25. It is the first time that X has exceeded his credit limit, and on 16th February the bank honours the cheque.

Analysis. The agreement of 10th January is a consumer credit agreement for running-account credit. The agreement of 15th-16th February varies the earlier agreement by adding a term allowing the credit limit to be exceeded merely temporarily. By section 82(2) the later agreement is deemed to revoke the earlier agreement and reproduce the combined effect of the two agreements. By section 82(4), Part V of this Act (except section 56) does not apply to the later agreement. By section 18(5), a term allowing a merely temporary excess over the credit limit is not to be treated as a separate agreement, or as providing fixed-sum credit. The whole of the £115 owed to the bank by X on 16th February is therefore running-account credit.

 

Facts. The G Bank grants H (an individual) an unlimited overdraft, with an increased rate of interest on so much of any debit balance as exceeds £2,000.

Analysis. Although the overdraft purports to be unlimited, the stipulation for increased interest above £2,000 brings the agreement within section 10(3)(b)(ii) and it is a consumer credit agreement.

[Bookworm]

Which of your cases is this relating to? Trying to merge your thread together.

[Bookworm]

4 threads merged. In future, please keep to one thread per claim, it makes things a lot easier to follow for everyone, including yourself.

[diskmandave]

(Thanx Bookie!!): Edit; &Rory!

 

I believe they're deliberately trying to confuse you.

 

Let's assume for a moment that bank account/overdraft aren't covered by CCA 1974...

 

That's great for HSBC..... Ohh, but they've turned that overdraft into a signed regulated loan. So, put simply (again!)... This is a Section 77 Consumer Credit Act 1974 loan! The fact that it was paid to a bank account makes no difference...

 

A possible reality.....

 

DMD See's a 3.5Li BMW. Being a boy racer, DMD arranges for a loan, regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

HSBC agree to loan DMD 1500.00 so that DMD can purchase the fast car! LOL!

 

4 months down the line DMD has an accident at work and can't keep up the repayments. HSBC are unsympathetic and pass the account to experto credite.

 

The moral of this story...! :

experto credite attempt to tell DMD that, as loan was paid to his B/Account that CCA 1974 is exempt....

 

DMD now tells experto credite that... As E.C. are acting as HSBC's agent, that Section 175 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 requires them by law to pass on the request for the original agreement to the original creditor. And the Original Creditor is now bound by the request and the standard time scales apply.

 

DMD would have been in touch with Trading Standards from day 1..!!

Trading Standards Central - Trading Standards and Consumer Protection information for the UK

 

Keep us posted...

 

 

[diskmandave]

 

If DCA only... Section 175 applies...

otherwise...

Section 189 applies...

 

Regards, Dave.

 

[patrickq1]

the lunatics are looking after the asylum dave lol if you beleive experto credito got it wrong so ??? lol good work dave

[Angel104]

Following my CCA request to experto credite they informed me today that it is comming from the far east- yes the far east. Apparently according to them that is where HSBC store them all.

[pecky1]

Well is it coming by Camel? Never heard that one before!

They will use that as an excuse not to send it withen the timescale

[dannyboy660]

Following my CCA request to experto credite they informed me today that it is comming from the far east- yes the far east. Apparently according to them that is where HSBC store them all.

 

It may sound crazy but it is actually quite possible, especially with HSBC.

 

They have outsourced the debt to EX.CR. in the hope you'd just pay up on their terms. If they don't beat the deadline for production of the CCA it puts EX.CR. out of the picture but HSBC themselves will still have the option to pursue, if they should decide to do so, and assuming they have the right docs.

 

Basically the DCA, in this case EX.CR., are just the fall guys. They pressure you, and buy time for the OC.

 

It's just a case of wait and see if/what they can come up with is the real McCoy, or if they admit defeat.

[payingonlyencouragesthem]

Following my CCA request to experto credite they informed me today that it is comming from the far east- yes the far east. Apparently according to them that is where HSBC store them all.

 

As anyone over 30 will be aware, HSBC stands for Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking Corporation and they do have a big infrastructure out there established yonks ago. This firm makes a huge deal about what a global player it is and sometimes does things in this vein that aren't particularly sensible.

[Angel104]

A firm called mackenzie hall have been telephoning me today- I have not answered their calls and they have not said what it is regarding I can only assume it is an old debt. Do I carry on ignoring the calls or should I answer them and say I will deal with them in writing only so far today they have phoned me 6 times.

[Curlyben]

Yep ignore their calls until they have something concrete to say and they write to you.

IF you do answer them then refuse to answer their security questions and demand everything in writing.

[alibobsy]

I wouldn't answer at all. These are the lowest of the low DCA who seem to specialise in debts close to or past the 6 yr statutary limit. If this is an old debt of yours you will probably get a letter about it shortly. But my understanding from others on here is sometimes these companies phone/write to people with the same name in the same area of the country trying to track one person. If you do answer do not confirm any personal details and tell them to put it in writing, but given how these companies try to bully,lie and insult people over the phone I don't speak to anyone over the phone anymore.

Good luck

ali x

[alibobsy]

Opps curly you beat me to it lol. Me and my slow fingers. Having to balance the laptop on my 9 month preg bump doesn't help either

ali x

[Curlyben]

Ali, you call that an excuse

[Angel104]

Thank you everyone. I have been racking my brains over what it could be. I have decided not to answer them and wait until they put something in writing.

[NailPost]

And even if they do put something in writing it will just be a computer-generated demand for money with no further details. It will be up to you to decide the next course of action - demand a cca, send the sb letter etc. One thing you should not do is pay the barstewards without seeing conclusive proof the debt is payable by you and that they have the right to collect.

[tiglet]

MH will not give up too easily, but don't be disheartened - once they see you know what you are talking about (courtesy of this site) and usually when you get TS involved, they will crawl back into the woodwork.

[buzby]

Further, don't think you are being 'targeted' as these calls are generated automatically, with the call only being passed to a MH staffer when the call is picked up. The cycle does change, and if there is no answer after a set period, the process stops - but can be reset at the press of a button if you DO contact them. Did you have an O2 mobile by any chance?

[Angel104]

Does a DCA have the power to take you court.

[Curlyben]

Yes and no.

Sorry to be vague, but it all depends on whether they actually own the debt or not.

[Angel104]

Well when they first wrote they said they were agents acting for HSBC so I suppose that means they do not own it does it?

[Curlyben]

Certainly sounds like it.

Ebforcement action CAN be taken by them with HSBC permission.

 

Is this Metropolitan by any chance ?