Got final reminder for unpaid fine from court after 5 years plz help!!

[shamsa01]

Hi, I don’t know where to start as so many things are happening.

 

on the 2nd of December 2011 i received a letter from the magistrate court for unpaid fine

when i called the number given on the letter to see what it was about , they told me that back in may 2006 I was caught on knights bridge station for fare evasion.

 

I was shocked to hear about that as its been nearly six years and have moved house around that time too.

 

when i explained this is the first time i am hearing about this case

 

- they have called me for a statutory declaration.

 

Now I have got hearing on 12th jan 2012.

I am scared to death as i have been told that this leads to a criminal offence if I plead guilty.

 

The thing is that I do not remember anything clearly.

 

The only incident I remember i was travelling from Plaistow to earls court and I had a weekly travel card for zone 2-3.

I was trying to go to the other platform to change the train as there were delays

when i was stopped by a ticket inspector

 

he told me that my travel card is not correct and am trying to cross zone 1 without paying for it.

 

I explained to him that I didn’t do it intentionally but he was not listening to me .

 

he took all my details.

 

He asked me to £20 penalty fare

i didn’t have any money on me at that time

 

he has kept my weekly travel card as well and asked me to buy a new ticket for myself

 

I was surprised as they usually don’t retain your travel card .

 

After 1 week I moved home.

 

Thats why couldn’t collect my mails.

And after so many years later they have traced my current address and send me the court fine reminder.

 

Please advise what should i do i have got hearing in court on 12th jan and already given my statutory decoration.

 

Should i get a solicitor to represent me in the court.

 

Upon calling the tfl prosecution department I have been told that everything is on hold for now

and they are going to attend the court and after that they are going to send me the summons again on my current address.

 

Please advise me should I plead not guilty.

 

Am I going to get criminal record for that?

 

If yes

Than when its going to be spent as i am going to apply for ILR in august 2014.

 

Thanks

[MARTIN3030]

Welcome to the site.

Its a little early in the morning for replies-but someone should be here later to answer these points.

The main thing is that you have got a SD in,which for now stops any action.

[BankFodder]

If you aren't guilty then that is what you should plead.

Other than that, the best thing to do will be to plead guilty explain what happened completely honestly and pay the money straightaway and apologise.

 

Whatever you do, you won't need a solicitor. It won't make any difference. Just dress smartish, be apologetic and come clean

[Old-CodJA]

I was shocked to hear about that as its been nearly six years and have moved house around that time too.

when i explained this is the first time i am hearing about this case

 

- they have called me for a statutory declaration. Now I have got hearing on 12th jan 2012.

 

I am scared to death as i have been told that this leads to a criminal offence if I plead guilty.

 

The thing is that I do not remember anything clearly.

 

The only incident I remember i was travelling from Plaistow to earls court and I had a weekly travel card for zone 2-3.

I was trying to go to the other platform to change the train as there were delays

when i was stopped by a ticket inspector. he told me that my travel card is not correct and am trying to cross zone 1 without paying for it.

 

I explained to him that I didn’t do it intentionally but he was not listening to me . he took all my details. He asked me to £20 penalty fare

i didn’t have any money on me at that time

 

he has kept my weekly travel card as well and asked me to buy a new ticket for myself I was surprised as they usually don’t retain your travel card .

 

After 1 week I moved home. Thats why couldn’t collect my mails. And after so many years later they have traced my current address and send me the court fine reminder.

 

Please advise what should i do i have got hearing in court on 12th jan and already given my statutory decoration.

 

Should i get a solicitor to represent me in the court.

 

Upon calling the tfl prosecution department I have been told that everything is on hold for now

and they are going to attend the court and after that they are going to send me the summons again on my current address.

 

Please advise me should I plead not guilty. Am I going to get criminal record for that?

 

If you have made a statutory declaration to the effect that you did not know about the case, TfL will be free to issue a new Summons without time constraints and have the case heard all over again. this is what will happen on 12th January.

 

You say that you moved address 1 week after you were reported. One question that the prosecutor is bound to ask is 'If you knew that you were about to move home within 1 week, why did you not provide your new forwarding address to the inspector too?'

 

Whether or not you plead guilty is entirely a matter for you. If you genuinely did not intend to make your journey via Zone 1 without holding a valid ticket for that zone, you should plead 'not guilty'.

 

I have a few other suggestions that might help you understand how a prosecutor's mind might work, if party to your comments here.

 

I have already mentioned the change of address, but you also say that; 'he has kept my weekly travel card as well and asked me to buy a new ticket for myself I was surprised as they usually don’t retain your travel card.'

 

This suggests to me that you had done it before and had been questioned previously. The inspector is entitled to retain the travelcard as evidence and that card, bearing your name & identity will be with the file for Court on 12th January. Much depends on what you were charged with.

 

If you were charged with breach of Byelaw, that is a strict liability matter and if you were there and did not have a valid ticket, the case is very straightforward.

 

If you were charged with 'intent to avoid a fare' the prosecution has to prove that you knew your ticket was not valid and that you intended to avoid part of your fare.

 

If you plead 'not guilty' the matter will be adjourned for a short trial at a later date when you will have to attend Court as will the reporting inspector. If you are convicted at trial the fine will normally be higher than if you plead guilty at the first opportunity.

 

If you plead 'guilty' a conviction will be recorded on the day and you will be ordered to pay a fine and may have to pay compensation & prosecution costs as well as a £15 victim surcharge.

 

If you genuinely did not know about the letters and prosecution, you could offer to pay the fare and costs incurred by TfL to settle this out of Court, but at this late stage I think it unlikely they will accept. It is worth a try though.

[Old-CodJA]

Removed duplication - sorry

[shamsa01]

Thanks for your quick reply I want to explain something here , Actually i was living with my boyfriend we broke up in feb 2006 and thats why I have to moved out over the night as the contract was under his name. i was living with few of my friends until i got settled at my current address. I was registered under the previous address as i could not find a permanent place for me. And obviously i was not receiving my mails from him as we were not on good terms. When i gave the ticket inspector the address i was temporary living at he made a phone call and said this is not my right address and than i have to gave him my previous address. Plus he did not told me that i am going to be prosecuted. Its been 1 week now i havnt eaten properly and crying all the time i have two small kids to look after and studying as well. As its been nearly 6 years I do not remember everything clearly. I have called the prosecution department to send me the copy of the report and remember every thing as mush as possible. And thats true I have been stopped earlier but the ticket inspector did not asked for any penalty fare he just asked me to buy a ticket for zone 1 at the window which i did. Let me tell you something that I was new to this country and english is not my first language. I explained him whatever i can in broken english. Please also let me if there is a chance that i will get arrested. thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I would be surprised if you're arrested, don't worry about that. I hope the guys will be able to comment further for you.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

No, you will not get arrested for this.

In my opinion, the explanation that you have given here for not receiving your mail should be put in your letter to the TfL prosecutor and explain that if you had received any of the letters, you would have replied immediately and paid any charges due.

Ask if you can be allowed to settle this without further court action.

Write something like the following in your letter, with the explanation about your address:

 

I have never been in any trouble before and am trying to bring up two small children on my own. English is not my first language and I have had help to write this letter, I am very sorry if I have misunderstood anything that I am not allowed to do.

I am very worried that a conviction for a first offence will have a very detrimental effect on my future likelihood of employment.

I am asking you to allow me to pay any fares and your full and reasonable costs that have been incurred by my silliness in order to settle this matter without Court action'.

 

I can assure you that I shall never travel without a valid ticket again

[shamsa01]

Thanks for your reply ,You dont know how thankful i am to you. as I have already mentioned that i have got hearing on 12th jan and i have spoken with the prosecution department and they said that after the hearing they will send me sumons again. do you think that its correct or are they going to charge me on the same day if i plead guilty. One more thing they have file the case in the court on 28th sep 2006 andthe incident happend on 8/05/2006. I have just checked my experian report and it shows that my name was registered on electroll since 10/2006 an my current address. Its clear that sumon was issued after 28/09/2006. do you think i can use this as an evidence in the court.

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks for your reply ,You dont know how thankful i am to you. as I have already mentioned that i have got hearing on 12th jan and i have spoken with the prosecution department and they said that after the hearing they will send me sumons again. do you think that its correct or are they going to charge me on the same day if i plead guilty. One more thing they have file the case in the court on 28th sep 2006 andthe incident happend on 8/05/2006. I have just checked my experian report and it shows that my name was registered on electroll since 10/2006 an my current address. Its clear that sumon was issued after 28/09/2006. do you think i can use this as an evidence in the court.

 

No, if you did not tell TfL you had moved they would have no reason to believe that you had not received your post. They could just assume you were ignoring it and they would proceed on that basis.

 

There is no guarantee that they will allow a settlement, they are not forced to do so, but you lose nothing by trying.

[shamsa01]

I have spoken with the tfl prosecution department and they said that they are going to send me paper work including sumons next week. I will definitely try my level best to convince them for settlement. Could you please guide me how can I contact the prosecution manager if you can give me any contact details ,phone number or e mail address. Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I stand to be corrected, but I would have thought those details would be on the letter TfL are sending you. Is there anything helpful on the correspondence you already have? The most important thing is to give them the reference number so they can locate your file.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

Absolutely right HB, the Op should wait until receipt of the letter / summons and will then have all the correct details by which to respond.

[tlogic4]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Just say you don't remember what you did last week let alone 5 years ago. Just act dumb.

[Old-CodJA]

I wouldn't lose sleep over it. Just say you don't remember what you did last week let alone 5 years ago. Just act dumb.

 

That's not going to stop the Court from asking you for a plea if TfL reissue the Summons, which they are entitled to do.

 

If you then enter a 'not guilty' plea because you 'can't remember', or the Court does so for you because you fail to plead, you are hardly going to be able to refute any evidence are you?

[shamsa01]

yes thats true Just remember that I had been stopped and some basic information but do not remember each and every details. I am still confuse what i were doing at the knights bridge .knights bridge is under zone 1 and i had a zone 2-3 paper travel card so there was no way that the barriers would let me out unless I buy the extension for zone 1 so how is he going to prove that my intention was to evade the fare. Now the only way to know what I acttualy said on that is the papers they are going to send me now. Lets see what happens. i am goig to convince them for out of court settlement if they are not ready I am going to get a solicitor asking for £600. I dont want any criminal record I can also ask them to check I have never made this silly mistake in the last 6 years.

[Old-CodJA]

Any Court hearing will only be concerned with what happened on the day and immediately prior to you travelling. All that has, or has not happened during the intervening years is irrelevant.

 

You are required to pay the correct fare before you join the train.

 

I really do not think you are likely to win this one, but still think you have a remote chance of convincing them to settle out of Court

[shamsa01]

As I have mentioned earlier that i was stopped by the ticket checker in the past befor that incident had happened but he was not an inspector he was a regular employee who stand near the bariers he took my name and address asked me to get extension for zone 1 and thats it.i have called prosecution department today and asked them if there are any other previous warnings or cautions recorded under my name before that incident they said no. Thats the only incident they have on their record. What do you think why its not there if i have been stopped in the past. Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

That is because you have not been prosecuted, or issued a formal warning before.

 

It makes no difference to the fact that a first offence can be prosecuted if TfL choose to do so.

[shamsa01]

So that mean i can argue that it was my first mistake and its been six years now I haven't repeated that mistake again. Please give me some suggestion how to convince them. Thanks

[shamsa01]

Could you please tell me when they send you summon ,do they require your signature to make sure that you have received it or anyone can sign it. Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

A Summons can be sent by recorded delivery, or by normal post. A signature is not required unless it has been specifically posted 'to be signed for'.

 

As you will already be aware from your original post, if the person who is summonsed to court does not attend, or fails to answer the summons in writing, the case can be heard without them being present.

 

Always answer a summons.

 

If someone makes a declaration at court saying 'I did not know about the summons' and then it is proven that they did actually know, but ignored it, they could potentially face prosecution under the Perjury Act.

[shamsa01]

How do they verify name and address and how can they prove that someone has actually received the summons and ignor it. Thanks

[shamsa01]

Hi, i have received a call from the prosecution department yesterday confirming that they have posted all the documents including summons to me . What to expect now? Am i going to get any chance for out of court settlement . Thanks

[Stigy]

Hi, i have received a call from the prosecution department yesterday confirming that they have posted all the documents including summons to me . What to expect now? Am i going to get any chance for out of court settlement . Thanks

You'll receive a court date through the post. You can offer a settlement to the company right up until the court date, but whether they accept is entirely up to them. You need to act sooner rather than later if you want to offer a settlement, as it's gone about as far as it's likely to now!

 

If you ignore the summons and don't say anything HMCS will assume you're ignoring it unless they get stuff returned to them presumably, such as 'not known at this address'. Of course that's all well and good, but if a Bailiff attends to recover the debt and you happen to be there, you'll find it's a helluva lot worse for you than simply holding your hands up in the first place. If you genuinely moved house or something, you have the right to have the case re-scheduled and the case re-heard, this is what's known as a Statutory Declaration, and you must do this to the court.