Can Interest be applied post Judgment/urgent advice needed

[Guest]

ok. so, if regulated, have you received any required s130a notices? and was it mentioned in the def notice?

Edited December 17, 2011 by Ford

[Flintstone1]

I assume you refer to "Interest Post Judgment". It was not mentioned in the Def Notice.

I have none of the s130a Notices (would it refer on a heading as a s130 Notice?)

Only a "Statement of Accounts" and recently (after the £123k payment) a "Arrears Notice, Compliance with 86b of the CCA 74" showing the Statment of account.and a notice informing that we will be sent notices every 6 months

Thanks

ok. so, have you received any required s130a notices? and was it mentioned in the def notice?

[hatesdebt]

If they've just sent bog standard statements of account, that's not good enough. Notices have to be in the correct format.

 

 

"Once the CCJ is in place, your creditor must send you a notice to say they intend to charge interest on the judgment. They are not allowed to add interest until they have sent the first notice to you. The notice must tell you the outstanding balance on which interest will be charged. It must also tell you what the rate of interest is and what date the interest will run from. It must also tell you that you can ask the court to change the interest rate and the instalments you pay.

 

The creditor has to send you a new notice every six months if they want to keep charging interest. The notice must tell you how much interest has been added and the interest rate.

 

If the creditor does not send you a notice within six months, they are not allowed to charge interest until a new notice is sent. They are not allowed to add interest back in for the time they have missed."

 

Was anything like this received?

[Flintstone1]

Thanks.

The only paperwork he received is Statements which do spell out in relation to the Interest./Charges and fees/contact/settling early/dispute resolution and paying less than the agreed sum. It sows the rate applied any payments and balance.

No mention of Interest post judgment.

If they've just sent bog standard statements of account, that's not good enough. Notices have to be in the correct format.

 

 

"Once the CCJ is in place, your creditor must send you a notice to say they intend to charge interest on the judgment. They are not allowed to add interest until they have sent the first notice to you. The notice must tell you the outstanding balance on which interest will be charged. It must also tell you what the rate of interest is and what date the interest will run from. It must also tell you that you can ask the court to change the interest rate and the instalments you pay.

 

The creditor has to send you a new notice every six months if they want to keep charging interest. The notice must tell you how much interest has been added and the interest rate.

 

If the creditor does not send you a notice within six months, they are not allowed to charge interest until a new notice is sent. They are not allowed to add interest back in for the time they have missed."

 

Was anything like this received?

[hatesdebt]

Is there any chance you could remove any personal details, then scan and post up one of the statements?

We need to determine if they have followed protocol here.

 

It's a big minus for them that nothing was on the DN already.

[Flintstone1]

Thanks.

Problem attaching so;

 

STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT.

 

(Details of the account showing interest monthly and rate PA) .

 

INTEREST.

interest is calculated and applied in full at the commencement of your agreement.If you fail to repay your loan before the expiry of the term of the agreement then we have the right to apply interest at the APR of the agreement on all of the overdue amounts.

However, we may apply interest at a lower rate than this. If you failed to repay your loan before the expiry of the term of the loan agreement then the rate of interest applied to your account,post term,is shown above on a monthly basis and is a simple interest calculation which is shown by reference to the statement balance brought forward(less any amount included in the balance relating to fees and charges)or,if the issue date of the loan falls within the statement period,the balance outstanding at the balance of the loan term expired(less any amount included in the balance relating to fees and charges). The annual equivelant simple (flay) interest rate for the period covered by this statement is shown above under the section headed credit terms, for the avoidance of doubt,we do not compound interest interest following expiry of the loan term.

 

REDUCED INTEREST.

The interest rate applied to your account has been conditionally reduced,that means we are applying a lower rate of interest to your account that we are contractually entitled to. The reduced rate applied on the condition that you repay the outstanding balance plus further interest falling due and charges,either in full or by agreed instalments,without requiring us to take any or further enforcement against you. However, if you fail to pay the amounts due under the agreement or we take any or further enforcement action against you then you may be liable to pay a higher rate of interest. This could mean that you may end up paying much more interest than is shown above.

 

CHARGES AND FEES

(standard amounts quoted)

 

CONTACTING US

(standard text)

 

SETTLING YOUR CREDIT AGREEMENT EARLY

(standard text)

 

DISPUTE RESOLUTION

If you have a problem with your agreement, please try to resolve it with us in the first instance. If you are not happy with the way in which your complaint or the result,you may be able to complain to the finantial ombudsman service. If you do not take up your problem with us first you will not be entitled to complain to the ombudsman. we can provide details of how to contact the ombudsman.

 

PAYING LESS THAN THE AGREED SUM

If you pay back less than your agreed payment in most cases it is likely to take you longer and may cost you more to pay off the debt undr the agreement.

 

If you have difficulties making payments under your credit agreement please contact us if you have not already done so to discuss terms for the rest of the agreement. You may also want to seek advice on what to do from an independent free advice agency such as the Citizen advice bureau.

END

 

Many thanks for taking the time to look at this.

Is there any chance you could remove any personal details, then scan and post up one of the statements?

We need to determine if they have followed protocol here.

 

It's a big minus for them that nothing was on the DN already.

[hatesdebt]

Hmmm,

 

As far as I can see that's not compliant with the extract in post #28

 

I think if it were me, I'd play it like this...

 

1. Continue payments until the judgement debt of 137k is paid (this has to be done regardless anyway)

2. Write to the court asking for a letter confirming the judgement debt is paid ( I think this costs £15?)

3. Send copy of letter to the creditor.

4. Stop payments

 

Then,

See what they try to do about the interest.

I realise that you may be reluctant to take this route, but I'd be surprised if they brought a separate action for it, as they almost certainly know deep down they won't get it and are relying on the debtors ignorance of legislation to continue payments.

 

Anyone else?

Ford?

[hatesdebt]

Ok,

 

Some more thoughts on this...

 

This might sound whacky - but!

The interest being charged in the background on the account is not subject to a ccj, so there is a possible argument that by the time the judgement figure is paid, the interest could be statute barred....

 

If you include in the letter of satisfaction something like "The judgement debt has been paid as instructed by the court and I acknowledge no other debt to your company" - then you are admitting no liability for the interest.

 

Also, further action could be challenged under the "unfair terms & conditions within contracts regs 1999"

 

Not forgetting CPR 7.3....

 

..."Whilst I appreciate that you are legally entitled to charge contractual interest and when I have paid the outstanding balance due under the judgement, I will be entitled to a certificate of satisfaction from the court.

 

The only way that you could recover any interest that has accrued since the date of judgment would be to issue fresh proceedings and I would argue that you are barred from doing this by rule 7.3 Civil Procedure Rules which in effect required you to bring all issues before the court in the original proceedings. Because you failed to seek a judgment which included interest after judgment you have prevented the court from considering whether interest should have been frozen under section 136 of the Consumer Credit Act and I would argue that it would now be an abuse of process for you to issue a second action.

 

Please, therefore, confirm that you will not be pursuing me for any interest that has accrued since date of judgement."

 

I know for a fact that the above excerpt taken from a letter from the debtor to the creditor under the same circumstances as the op, resulted in a reply back saying that the post judgement interest would not be pursued....

 

Any more input on this?

C'mon caggers their MUST be loads of you out there that are wiser on this than me........

[Guest]

flintstone

can you type up verbatim (minus any personal details) their claim as on the claim form, the following judgment, and the subsequent decision re the charge hearing that you mentioned re the amount owed.

was the 123k claim re one specific loan? or were there seperate loans accumulated?

note the logbook loans subforum http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?203-Log-Book-Loans-Bills-of-Sale

Edited December 19, 2011 by Ford

[Flintstone1]

Thanks to you both.

I am just checking with the Court to make sure he hasn't let anything slip through the net before i reply.

flintstone

can you type up verbatim (minus any personal details) their claim as on the claim form, the following judgment, and the subsequent decision re the charge hearing that you mentioned re the amount owed.

was the 123k claim re one specific loan? or were there seperate loans accumulated?

note the logbook loans subforum http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?203-Log-Book-Loans-Bills-of-Sale

[dx100uk]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture[jpg] file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

 

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf

than many single ones

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[Flintstone1]

Thanks

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture[jpg] file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

 

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf

than many single ones

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[Guest]

hatesdebt

i would think that any applicable post j interest would be due once the judgment has been satisfied (a difference being where stat interest is payable it would be 'enforceable' 'per se' by virtue of s74(3) (and s130a does not apply where there is s74 (ie stat interest)). so, any poss statute bar clock that you mention would start from then?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Ford

[hatesdebt]

The way I read it is that stat (pj) interest effectively accrues within the judgement and therefore always remains valid and payable. Contractual post judgement interest accrues outside from date of judgement.

Therefore, lets say you have a judgement that takes 6 plus years to pay off, any accrued interest would be stat barred as that is not part of the judgement debt per se? Unsure, but it's possible I suppose.

 

With regard to the op though, I can't see the creditor getting the interest and I'm not aware of any case where they have.

[Guest]

the cause of action re any post J interest arises once the judgment is satisfied, as that is when any interest would stop and therefore become payable. afaik a judgment figure and any instalments wouldn't include post j interest. that's one reason why there is s130a (and the dn provision). (but with stat interest s130a is not required due to s74. its enforceability is presumed). the HL have said that post j contract interest could be possible depending on the facts/circumstances. from your reasoning then any judgment given by instalments for eg where post j contract interest may be in issue would have to have a time limit for satisfaction of 6 years?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Ford

[Guest]

flint

i was asking for details of the claim etc to check what pre judgment interest they claimed and how, and what their claim was for, and how the amount was increased at the charge hearing.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Ford

[hatesdebt]

Hi Ford,

 

Thinking about this further, maybe for the sake of this thread we forget anything to do with statutory interest pj and just look at contractual?

 

It doesn't seem to be clear cut sometimes.

With regard to contractual pj int, and sb, it could be seen differently.

 

Eg, judgment is given for £x, they then start applying the interest (pj). Month 1 the interest is say £500. Say it takes the debtor 6 years to pay the judgment figure, that £500 could be sb as it is not part of the judgment debt and lets say it's not been acknowledged. Compound interest is added monthly thereafter, but if the original £500 is sb, there is nothing to compound on?

Either that, or the interest added in month 2 becomes sb after 6 years 2 months? - mind bending...

 

Anyway,

If we ignore my above ramblings completely, It seems (to me) that the lender has simply not followed the legislation that would allow them to claim the pj interest anyway and I still feel that cpr 7.3 would scupper a second action for the same.

 

Am I making sense or going bonkers.......

[Guest]

was posting info re stat post j interest for general info, and in comparison.

as i said, the cause of action re any post j interest re any poss stat bar clock would be once the judgment has been satisfied. it cant seem to work any other way.

that's just it. what has been applied pre judgment, and what is going to be requested post? what was the claim and judgment? flint says 60k would be due post. so, therefore could have received some sort of statement/info about it to know. a specific loan for 137k at that time would not be regulated?

Edited December 23, 2011 by Ford

[Flintstone1]

Hope everyone had a good Christmas and all the best for the New Year.

 

This is the latest twist a Interim Charging Order as attached, i have just uploaded this to check i have done it properly, if i have i will upload all the rest of the Docs requested later.

Intrim Charging Order.pdf

[paulwlton]

Hi,

I need some advice for a elderly relative of mine, he has had a Judgment made against him after defaulting on a Log Book Loan (regulated by the 74 act).

 

The contract includes wording for Interest "before and after Judgment" this was also stated in the claim particulars supplied to court, but after Judgment he wasnt sent a "First required Notice" as laid down CCA 1974 130A, would this make a difference?

The Judgment does not specify timescale of payment or any reference to Interest.

Just states "Judgment for the claimant in the sum of........."

 

He has since paid all the monies of the Claim but when it was granted Judgment it had grown with Interest by another £14k.

He is now in a qaundry whether to try and get the rest of the money to satisfy the Judgment but if interest can be added after Judgment he has to find another £60k!

 

If interest can be added what route should he take? as he has not the money to pay.

 

My conflicting advice has been that the interest should only grow in a separate pot and not be confused with the Interest Post Judgment, and then very hard for them to bring a 2nd claim for the interest as the CPR rules make it difficult.

But then i am told yes Judgment can include the interest if sated in the contract. End of!

 

 

Sorry if i have repeated on another couple of Forums as i am getting conflicting advice and the arrangment freezing interest has just been removed, obviously trying to force my relative to pay, so it is now urgent.

 

Many Thanks

 

CCA regulated Judgments.

 

The judgment debtor shall pay the judgment creditor the amount ordered in the judgment. Any contractual interest charged is seperate to the judgment debt and therefore requires a seperate cause of action. if the judgment is not interlocutory they will have problems sueing you again for the interest.

 

It may be worthwhile sending off a CCA request and a full dsar.

 

IMO these scumbags are relying on peoples ignorance.

[Guest]

it seems that the initial judgment was for 123k. then there was a previous charge application in which it said 'now 137k' (due to post j interest?). that app was refused. (post #14). so, was the judgment 'interlocutory'? (hence one reason why was asking for the judgment verbatim)

[Flintstone1]

Thanks.

 

Here is all the info i have.

We have requested again his loans without Interest and dates but have received just the account as noted in the list 2nd to last one doc.

 

They are in date order and are;

 

6 loan agreements on the dates he borrowed.

They all have bill of sales i have supplied one.

1 agreement which i mark as "not accounted for" is in fact VL922 (Not regulated by CCA)??

 

The particulars of claim (witness statement) and Exhibits G1/G2/G3 and Account (poor Copy)

 

The Judgment.

 

Application for Charging Order/Refusal of Order

 

Arrears Notice after £123k Payment

Latest Statement showing Interest Back Accruing.

 

Information request of Loan without Interest/Charges, as each loan is "rolled up" might be me but i cant get his true loan less interest/charges.

 

Latest Twist Interim Charging Order, for £186,747.03. Why is the payment of £123k not incorporated in this?

 

Much Appreciated

 

 

it seems that the initial judgment was for 123k. then there was a previous charge application in which it said 'now 137k' (due to post j interest?). that app was refused. (post #14). so, was the judgment 'interlocutory'? (hence one reason why was asking for the judgment verbatim)

Pre-Post Judgment Interest Documents.pdf

[paulwlton]

Did you receive the section 130A notice?

 

It may be that you defend any further action using section 140 (unfair relationship) regarding the PJI.

 

The default notice looks to be invalid as well.

[Flintstone1]

Thanks

 

I have collected all the info from my relative so i would say no.

Did you receive the section 130A notice?

 

It may be that you defend any further action using section 140 (unfair relationship) regarding the PJI.

 

The default notice looks to be invalid as well.

[Guest]

at first glance, for now

it seems that the claim form is for the 54.7k 'b of sale' 19/4/08, so would be regulated? and, with pre judgment interest, the judgment was for 137k?

the dn referred to in the claim form does not seem to correlate with the one posted as the dn posted seems to relate to the 64.7k fixed sum loan 19/04/08? was there a dn re the b of sale?

or has that amount been added to the 54.7k b of sale?

the amounts shown on the int charging orders are just what the claimant says you owe at the time (with post j interest). they are not final by the judge as it has not been heard yet. (at the previous charge hearing which was refused, they were given permission to reapply. which they have now done.)

(did note though that the claim requested interest post judgment?)

you have paid 123k, (leaving a balance on the last statement at around 78k) so the amount they say on the recent int charge order is wrong.

you are around 14k from the initial judgment.

blimey, have they charged some interest!!!!!

Edited December 29, 2011 by Ford