Hi all Not sure whether to start a new thread but it relates to this one. Haven't got anywhere and the post judgment notices are still arriving so interest still accrues. But the company has been in contact to look at a settlement, it seems they will accept a low figure but will not indicate how much . Now since 2014 and the FCA new rules , no more than 2 roll overs (we had 7 )and the borrower never pays back more than double what they borrowed/ plus borrower must never pay more in fees and interest than 100% of what they borrowed. Would any of this assist us? Retrospective as our loan, judgment/charge around 2010. Thanks

Private Consumer.

Hi,I will make this brief. I am in dispute with a Glazing company. It has now been tracked to my local court.I have submitted a defence the claimant hasn't responded to this within the time period laid down.We are to supply any witness statements and evidence. The dispute arises that they fitted the wrong item as ordered and damaged on installation, and took 6 months to complete which should have taken 1 day.I incurred extra trade and other costs due to this fact.I have paid deducting these figures, I am being pursued for the balance. For completeness and assist the Judge which point of consumer law would assist my case. Thanks

Hi Ford. Thanks for your input. I have the land registry will check. Does the figure of a charge show not sure. Anyway I have raked over this point many times and goes back to the core of a purpose of a charge to secure a judgment debt. How on earth can any more monies be covered by the charge which are neither admitted or have had an opportunity to be defended/disputed. I have asked/researched this point many times with very little conclusion. Thanks

Thanks Yes I have all relevant Transcripts of the hearings. You are correct and yes it seems "Never-ending" up to this point and if I was to "Bury my head in the sand" so to say and not contest it, it would seem to continue the same until a Order of Sale is applied for i assume! But that is not the case as i will exhaust every avenue.

Just a quick one, I may have missed it but my last post didn't seem to flag up on "New Posts"?

Hi, I am pursuing in light of this case. But if that was to fail, where do I go from there? I could pursue the "unfair relationship" avenue but would be costly and the recent cases I have seen have failed. The most frustrating point is that interest is accruing still, we have no way of paying yet it grows like a "Monster"! The amount of Post Judgment Interest they are pursuing is staggering!! I may repeat myself here, but if you recall they have were successful in gaining a charge to secure their Judgment figure plus PJI (the Judgment figure was subsequently paid), now when the charge was given the figure of PJI was X and in the courts eyes the figure of X is now secured, can I have any views on whether the further PJI which they apply monthly is still secured by the charge thus in effect the charge figure grows? Thanks

I am a little surprised at the lack of responses, as this case could have major bearing on future PJI Claims, and as this is what has always been stated on this Forum by many here, but now can be seen proven! I would welcome other views how they see it assisting our case.

Thanks, seems a glimmer of hope in regard to this case. Notices are the most frustrating aspect, suppose just unlucky with the Judge, but in hindsight I should have requested at court that they prove without doubt with there Metadata or similar. I have pondered on the press with them being quite a high profile "Shark" which is expanding at a high rate after being taken over, and the current press interest. Not sure! Thanks

Hi, I will try and put it another way to stir some interest. If you can recollect one of my defences raised after confirmation here and after other research (P Madge, Advisor etc) was varies arguments that the Post Judgment Contractual Interest could not simply be added to the Judgment Debt, and also that it could not be secured by the charge. These were, you could say dismissed by the Judge even though he didn't even open one of my Re-Joinders at one hearing and didn't understand. As you know the charge was granted and after pursuing other routes the Interest is still accruing on the Judgment figure even though this was paid in full. I could post up the notice and it would make any other tv programme ,radio info we have heard lately on Payday lenders Claims seem miniscule, I seem powerless to stop it. As a side note my original cast Iron defence was that the Post Judgment Notices were never sent (these were not 100%) the only entitlement of the claimant for PJI was to have sent the 130a Notices, it was quite plain for anyone to see as every other detail was in their "Particulars of claim" except these Notices, but were slipped in at the Morning of the hearing! Anyway the Judge agreed they had been sent, I have since requested a SAR (refused) a legal request (refused). But it is still in my mind but I would need some hard proof to be allowed to apply to leave to appeal. Anyhow this is the first case I have seen to confirm this, extract below; The Judge held, there was no power of the court in the claim to add any amount beyond the statutory interest to the amount of the judgement debt which also applied to post-judgement contractual interest. Relevant points from the case: "a Judgement attracts interest only at the Judgement Act rate but there may be a continuing contractual liability to pay interest at a higher rate. Lord Millett and Lord Hope left open the question of whether the English courts have any power to do so. If there were a power to make such an order, one might think that it would be exercised relatively frequently, and that it might not even have been necessary to make provision in the County Court debts. I note in the very brief time that I have been able to look at the matter by way of further research that there is reference in the White Book at paragraph 40.8.3 to a case at first instance. Rocco Giuseppe & Figli v Trader Export SA [1984] 1 WLR 742, in which Jonathan Parker J held that there was no power to vary the rate set out in the Judgements Act. It seems to me that must imply that he considered the court had no jurisdiction of its own to award post-judgement interest aside from the provisions of the judgements Act. But it seems to me that, even if the power exists, it cannot be of assistance to the claimant in this case since it would of necessity be a power for the court to make an order for post-judgement interest in this court. on the first question, therefore, I hold that there is no power of the court in this claim to add any amount beyond the statutory interest to the amount of the judgement debt, and that applies to both the contractual interest."

Yes, thanks

Hi all, hope you are well. Any views on how the recent Case Chubb and Bruce v Dean and ANR {2013} EWHC 1282 (CH) would have a bearing on our situation?

HI, Nothing received regarding SAR request. Pro-Bono unit still havent decided either way? The figures involved now i would have thought cancel out the Time Order route. Still unsure whether the Charge Order is a fixed amount at Judgment or grows with the PJI! and if the creditor would have to raise a new claim for the increasing amount. I have been asked to get the Court Transcript with regard to my last post, as if it is correct that PJI cannot be secured by way of a charge then i need to look at the reason the Judge allowed it. To be honest he never even read my Rejoinder which contained various papers by P Madge and various others supporting my argument, and stared blank at me when i raised these arguments. Thanks

Hi all, Hope you are all well, Update, the Creditor is refusing to agree to any disclosure or agree by mutual consent to a expert look at the computer which produced the PJI Notices. Quite difficult to ask to be allowed to appeal as the Judge found as a matter of fact that the Notices were sent! One other point which i know we have discussed in depth but goes to the core of the case and i know that CAB have raised this, everyone here and CAB seem to agree that PJI cannot form part of the Charge but the J never agreed (as the PJI is now secured by way of a charge) even my Counsel didnt agree with me when i raised this! As the figure now is Staggering (i have tried every angle to stop it growing) then i may have one last crack if i could prove that the PJI cannot be secured by way of a charge. Any ideas?

Hi all. Happy New Year. Am pushing hard on my last point. Will let you know the outcome. Thanks

Thanks Ford. I quote; "...via a complex excel spreadsheet. This system produced the arrears notices, PJI Notices and Statements by user generation, but, as these were prepared as a calculation on a spreadsheet (being part of the loan book spreadsheet) these were not documents that were capable of being saved once they were printed. The sheet from which these documents were produced would simply re-populate with the next customers details following it being printed."

Sorry for late reply. I took further advice prior to application and we decided not to apply at this time, the same judge has requested it everytime and we were getting nowhere and i felt he may have refused and we would have incurred substantial costs, and my legal advice was even unsure we had the correct directions from the J. Anyway we have changed tact and are pursuing the 130a PJI Notices route. We know these were never sent (even though the J ruled in there favour). This is also a pressure route, it would not sit comfortable with myself if i was the MD and knew i had lied in Court. We have requested the metadata to prove these were sent, as expected they have wrote back saying the documents are produced by user generation and no "Time stamp" exists (i can PM the full reply). I am unsure how to reply and have only limited knowlegde on this point, any advice? Strangely they have shut off from us but now we have raised this they suggest a sensible way forward to look at a settlement, that speaks for it self. Thanks

Hi, attached is the POC stating this figure, the statement(bad copy) and the de-fault this may help explain or not! Thanks

Had the hearing. The Judge wasnt happy that i hadnt presented the application in the correct manner. It seems my pleadings were correct but i hadnt presented the correct form. Anyway he has extended for one last time, i am a little confused as his Orders are a Counterclaim or Part 20(but i thought that is a 3rd party claim). Anyway without me digging, what is the correct form in my case for a counterclaim? Thanks

Hi all, hearing shortly to hear whether permission is granted for us to Appeal and/or commence a Part 20 claim (or pursue a counterclaim). So to be allowed to appeal the original judgment (out of Time) and/ or counterclaim on the Interest Post Judgment. I have 3 Authoritys in my submissions but dont want to say which just in case. Can you point any out, PM me if you wish. Thanks

Hi all, hearing shortly to hear whether permission is granted for us to Appeal and/or commence a Part 20 claim (or pursue a counterclaim). So to be allowed to appeal the original judgment (out of Time) and/ or counterclaim on the Interest Post Judgment. I have 3 Authoritys in my submissions but dont want to say which just in case. Can you point any out, PM me if you wish. Thanks

So frustrating. Maybe reason they are dodging my SAR requests.

Thanks all, am away so internet not great. Other side agreed an exstenstion so paid £45 and the clerk sorted it. Not finished by a long shot, but don't want to air just yet. First off if a next hearing I really need a higher Judge who understands. Oh also I am back as a LIP.

Parties are discussing a way forward to a possible settlement, what is the protocol for me to request a stay to directions for a short period. Thanks

All, Decision time again. Looking at one more option that the J gave me. Are we able to apply for a time order by virtue of CCA 74 s.129(1) and subject to s.129(3) bringing all the Unfairness arguments asking the rate to be amended?