Is it worth appealing a failed atos work capability assessment?

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

Well done, I think it's the right thing to do. Please keep us posted and prepare yourself for the work of fiction that is probably going to arrive. Don't take it personally, it's happened to lots of us here.

 

My best, HB

[Nystagmite]

Scotland Citizens Advice has deemed to be unfit for purpose

 

Hasn't just about everyone? I know people who have said it works - those who haven't been through it.

[chelle123]

Hi, just a quick update, I have received confirmation that my appeal has been received, and until a decision is reached, I am to survive on £67.50 a week, so much for NOT being WORSE off!!

 

Merry christmas Atos and the D.W.P, and our wonderful 'caring' government, don't give us a second thought when you're in your nice warm houses, eating, drinking and enjoying your christmas will you....

[count orlok]

A lot of people on sickness benifits were doing so because they were unable to return to the same job. But remember that isn't what the benifit is there for.

 

That was Invalidity Benefit; to get that you had to send sicknotes in from your Doctor. This was phased out years ago with the introduction of IB. "The sicknote culture" of IB was a myth introduced by the government as to get (and keep) it you had to take regular DWP medicals. The requirements for IB where actually more strict than those needed for ESA. The "problem" was that they were carried out by real doctors, and although they would try to catch you out would not lie when faced with genuine illness.

 

IB was introduced for the very reason you mentioned; too many people where on long term sickness becasue they could not do their usual job, IB was only for those who were to ill to do any job and failed the All Work Test. To get IB or ESA you had to pass (fail?) the AWT or WCA by getting 15 or more points. The descritpors for the AWT were more strict than the WCA, but the application is different. Also being blind, having a heart condition, being in a wheelchair, etc. is no longer enough to get the benefit.

[plok]

Yes you should appeal.

 

I recommend you go ASAP to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, they are truly amazing people. They will make sure you follow the right procedure for appeal and will help with paperwork.

 

The same happened to me.

I went to my ATOS medical with my support worker, medical evidence and a strongly worded letter from my GP, but because I was "on a good day" , the assessor decided I was not eligible for ESA.

They base a lot of the assessment on what you say, rather than look at the evidence, so if communication isn't your forte...

We went to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, and the decision was reversed within 3 weeks, if I remember correctly, with payments backdated to the original date.

 

edit: Apologies for this post, I didn't read all the replies before posting, so didn't see you had already sorted the problem.

Edited December 19, 2011 by plok
Original problem was sorted before my post

[chelle123]

Hi there, no worries, I appreciate all comments/suggestions

[chelle123]

Another update...I received a letter on the 14th December stating that my medical certificate was due to run out on the 15th, the actual date on the letter was the 8th December, so why it took 6 days to get to me is anyone's guess....I got another medical certificate today, photocopied it, before sending it back in a normal envelope, first class, as opposed to using their 2nd class pre-paid one. So now I wait to see if I get any money on wednesday....

[RaeUK]

chelle123, it's up to you to ensure your med cert is up to date and sent off in time - the DWP don't always send out reminders. Put the date it runs out in your diary or on a calender. See your Doc a week before that date and send off your new cert in good time ...

Rae.

[Bustard]

Yes you should appeal.

 

I recommend you go ASAP to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, they are truly amazing people. They will make sure you follow the right procedure for appeal and will help with paperwork.

 

" The same happened to me.

I went to my ATOS medical with my support worker, medical evidence and a strongly worded letter from my GP, but because I was "on a good day" , the assessor decided I was not eligible for ESA.

They base a lot of the assessment on what you say, rather than look at the evidence, so if communication isn't your forte...

We went to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, and the decision was reversed within 3 weeks, if I remember correctly, with payments backdated to the original date."

 

At one time , the system was relatively ! benign and went on a worst day basis ....people were given the benefit of the doubt

 

...the gloss put on things now is not what you can't do it's what you can do . It's only a capability test and it's very debatable whether it is relevant to the real world of work and there have been some very controversial decisions......the whole WCA concept seems to fall on it's inherent contradictions

 

. There was one in the paper of a registered blind since 16 man with a guide dog being passed " fit for work " ....what's he going to do ? ....Airline Pilot , Train Driver ? , Aircraft Control ? .....in any case who'd take him on with the insurance issues ? ....there was some more contentious ones recently on Eastern Eye a East of England BBC current affairs programme .

 

There's JCP + staff that know the people that have " failed " the WCA are too ill to work , some people after failing the WCA have been disallowed JSA as they are too ill ........it's all bit Orwellian ?

 

http://dwpexamination.wordpress.com/an-account-of-my-dwp-medical/ I hope this isn't too militant , it just appears there's too many underhand machinations with the " trick " closed questions and too many disgruntled people who've had negative experiences and very few with positive ones ...and even then they suspect them of being ATOS or DWP trolls be it rightly or wrongly .

Edited January 14, 2012 by Bustard

[Bustard]

if the DWP wants to trip people up or accuse people of fraud or " get to the truth " by " reading between the lines " do it properly . It appears that the regulations are so badly drafted , worded etc and they're " open to interpretation " as they say . The original UNUM paper back in the early noughties was entitled " Malingering , Illness & Deception " AFAIK ...there was a lot of lobbying after that ....a odd coincidence ??

 

http://tia-junior.blogspot.com/2011/11/surreptitious-assumptions-made-by.html Hope this is of use , I've included it as it explains things better than I can

[speedfreek]

Forget the WCA what's the point? Had one last week (my second) it lasted 21 minutes including the greet in reception and me being able to turn of my recorder after leaving. One before that was 25 mins so at least I'm getting more efficient

 

Classics from this one were;

 

Not believing that somebody can last for 3 weeks without going to buy food from the shops.

 

You don't even chat to the neighbours in your block of flats?

 

And her little squeal of delight when after the TV (don't watch it) on thw what do you do all day question I mention I surf the web etc.

 

A Computer - jackpot!

 

Just waiting for the DWP phone calls that I'll ignore then the trip to the nice man at the advice centre when the letter arrives whw will probably just photo copy my appeal from last time and send it in

[osdset]

Hi, just a quick update, I have received confirmation that my appeal has been received, and until a decision is reached, I am to survive on £67.50 a week, so much for NOT being WORSE off!!

 

Merry christmas Atos and the D.W.P, and our wonderful 'caring' government, don't give us a second thought when you're in your nice warm houses, eating, drinking and enjoying your christmas will you....

 

Welcome to the £67.50 per week club, all of us that are on appeal or on assessment are members, you could join the £67.50 per week JSA club if you want, membership is free, no more worries about sending med certs in! All you need to do is get yourself down to the job centre fortnightly, armed with your jobsearch, you get to sit in pleasant air conditioned surroundings while you wait to be called up to sign on, you get to meet a really nice and friendly person who will ask you all sorts of silly questions about looking for work and stuff like that, but eventually they will let you sign a little bit of paper which will guarantee your next installment's of £67.50 per week! How bad is that! You may even be invited to join the mandatory work activity club, this is so much fun, you get to work all day for free! In really interesting places like Poundland, or Morrisons.

 

I dunno about you but I'm staying in my club.

[Bustard]

IMO they want a disincentive to appeals according to this http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2011/10/disabled-people-guilty-till-proved-innocent/ According to this , there's no evidence of widespread abuse of the appeals system . The successful figures clearly show there's something clearly wrong with the system ?

 

They seem to be paranoid & neurotic about the odd chance of someone getting one over on them , you can either tolerate the odd necessary evil , if you go all holier than thou they should expect to be contradicted and challenged .

 

As one caller said to Victoria Derbyshire on Five Live ...the real hard core " Frank Gallagher - Shameless " type scroungers are too hard faced & savvy to be caught out , they'd know the system better than the DWP staff and can also bully people . DWP staff say on forums the real [problem]s are far more sophisticated than the odd person coming the old soldier , usually involving immigrants ...non pc or not . To catch them out is seemingly too much like hard work ?

 

The Govt allegedly put pressure on Prof Harrington re Cancer Patients , it appeared that they were trying to teach them a moral lesson about entitlement , that backfired in the media .

 

 

" Forget the WCA what's the point? Had one last week (my second) it lasted 21 minutes including the greet in reception and me being able to turn of my recorder after leaving. One before that was 25 mins so at least I'm getting more efficient "

 

IMO As soon as you step inside the ATOS Origin " Medical " Centre Car Park , your assessment starts , there is nothing remotely informal about it , one centre report-ably had 95 CCTV cameras .....there's been stories about security guards giving people pens to see if they drop them ..." remarkably similar " to the Pound Coin test ?

 

IMO Basically they're using Insurance Claim Industry Methods to trip people up, where the fraud rate is 20 % , with DWP benefits the fraud rate is 0.3 - 0.5 % & claimants will have written evidence to vouch for their conditions .

 

Also in the Insurance Industry you need proper evidence that can stand up in court . My late Uncle fell off a ladder whilst working as a glazier , he was summoned to the Office & paid up , however on the way out someone was watching him through binoculars , there was a story in The Daily Mail about a lady who'd tripped over and injured herself working for ASDA in their bakery . She alleged that she'd been covertly filmed for 4-5 years by a private investigator hired by ASDA .

 

There was a report in the media of a Bombardier Shorts worker who had a metal sheet the size of a billiards table fall on him . One of their senior managers had him filmed from a unmarked van lifting up his baby . The Senior Manager wanted him in the office accusing him of malingering . Royal Mail later headhunted that Senior Manager to be their Personnel Director in Northern Ireland .

 

However at least these firms are at least trying to get proper evidence unlike ATOS & the DWP with underhand seemingly innocent and innocuous closed and sideways questioning about the likes of Facebook . The conclusions made by ATOS or the DWP " Decision " Makers seem to have very little to do with the real world of work .

 

Google UNUM Provident " Bad Faith " about remarkably similar events in the States and UNUM Provident being outlawed in 22 states ...it's " interesting "

Edited January 16, 2012 by Bustard

[osdset]

Whilst appealing, claimants can if they so wish stay on ESA, though at a reduced rate. Claimants found not to have limited capability for work who have appealed against that decision can get reduced-rate ESA whilst the appeal is pending, provided that they continue to submit medical certificates - note that is not restricted to income-related ESA. It is understood that the appeal letter can be treated as a new claim for ESA, and the reduced-rate is achieved by applying only the 'assessment phase' rate of ESA (i.e., without additional components) while the appeal is pending. An alternative (as in incapacity for work appeals) is for the claimant to claim jobseeker's allowance while appealing. The DWP has confirmed to CPAG the official intent that where that happens, and the claimant subsequently wins their appeal so re-establishing entitlement to ESA, they will be able to receive arrears of ESA less any JSA paid.

 

Cut and pasted from the Child Poverty Action Group web site the full article is here http://www.cpag.org.uk/cro/wrb/wrb207/esa_appeals.htm

[chelle123]

Hi..just a quick update as to how my appeal is progressing.

 

Ok here goes, I received a letter from the tribunal service this morning (11/06/2012) informing me that the appeal is allowed. It also says that The decision of the Secretary of state dated 14/11/2011 is set aside. The Tribunal added a further 9 points to the points previously awarded.

 

I did not attend a hearing (at my own request) and the decision was made via a First-Tier Tribunal. The accompanying letter however, states that the D.W.P. or Jobcentre can still appeal this decision. So I can do nothing more than await a response from them.

 

In answer to my own question at the start of this thread, it IS worth appealing a failed ATOS Work Capability assessment. It has been a long, sometimes infuriating process, but one which I have learned a great deal from, and hope that my experience will help others in their appeals, or in deciding whether or not to appeal.

 

I will further update when I hear back from the D.W.P and would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for all of your support, information and contributions to this thread..thank you all very much:high5:

[Nystagmite]

They can appeal the decision; but this is unlikely.

[chelle123]

Hi, just wondering if anyone knows how long it takes, from when you are awarded e.s.a. by appeal, to getting normal e.s.a. payments? I received notification from the tribunal service on the 8th June, and have had no communication whatsoever from either the d.w.p. or the jobcentre..

 

I was originally told to expect to have to wait between 4 and 6 weeks..but would have expected to have had some sort of communication, even if it was just to tell me that my claim is being processed, or is this not standard procedure?

 

(I struggle with phone calls, which is why I have not phoned them)..

 

The sickening thing is, by the time all of this is eventually sorted, no doubt it will be time to have to go through it all over again:-x

 

So sick of being penalized for being too ill to work, and having to go over the same thing again and again, it's a similar feeling to flogging a

 

apologies, got caught in a moment.. I will update as soon as I have any news..

[Slatted]

I expect you will have to chase them....seems something I always end up doing....

[worried33]

chase them if you have heard nothing, when I chased them it turned out my appeal was still stuck in a pile and not even sent of to the tribunal service.

[chelle123]

Just a quick update.. I rang today to find out what was happening, and it turns out, everything was on the system, but no-one acted on it.. I received a call back to inform me that a payment request has now been made, and it will take 7 - 10 days to sort out, that includes all the back payments too..I will post again when I receive it..

[chelle123]

Another quick update..After waiting and waiting AGAIN, I hear nothing regarding payment. I rang back yesterday to see what was going on, to be told that because of staff shortage, and a backlog of paperwork, it could be up to another 2 weeks before anything gets sorted.

 

This has already been 3 months since the tribunal, and it is coming up to a year since I failed the W.C.A..

 

I am not impressed at all, in fact you can safely assume that I am with all the excuses, mis-information and downright incompetence of the whole stupid system:frusty:

 

Apologies for the rant..just had to get it off my chest..it's wound me up so much..

 

I will post again if, and when, it eventually does get sorted..

[abc123def]

I would go to the CAB and let them intercede, often they actually 'act' when an official organisation contacts them rather than a mere mortal who is a lower than low benefit claimant.

[chelle123]

I will definitely be following your advice abc123, those two weeks came and went AGAIN without hearing ANYTHING from them. I contacted the D.W.P. on Friday 24th August, to be told the delay is because of a huge backlog..hmm sounds familiar.. I was also told yet again that my details would be passed straight through to the relevant department, and she wasn't quite sure what to say, when I informed her, that I was told that very same thing the last time I rang.

 

To top it all off, she said I would get a call-back this morning (Tuesday 28th August) to update me, and unsurprisingly that hasn't happened either.

 

So enough is enough, i'll update again, when i've been in touch with the C.A.B.