Cap1 & CCA return

[Guest The Terminator]

Acverfan hasn't said if this was a current account of a loan account so sec 77 may be applicable if it was a loan account

 

I've emailed you but just in case you didn't get it the FSA have been bashing the banks again

 

Remortgaging guide| Remortgage | Remortgage UK | Mortgage | 100% Mortgage - MSN Money UK - Consumers set for £100 million mortgage refund

 

 

[Guest The Terminator]

I may be getting my wires crossed here, but Term seems to believe that an overdraft is indeed covered by s78. I've re-read the s74 section V exemption you uncovered earlier, but I cannot see a corresponding VI exemption for overdrafts and s77/8 are both in VI. Now, Term will hopefully post his thoughts later on today, but this would have a significant impact on banks if indeed an overdraft is covered under s78. The whole issue of default notices issued on overdrafts does still seem to have some mileage in it and I'm still hopeful that s74 doesn't exempt it.

 

(Hey, it's Friday afternoon, the clock is going slowly and I'm waiting for teradata to return a sql command that has been running now for two hours. I'm bored and the above question really interests me)

 

EXAMPLE 6

Facts. The G Bank grants H (an individual) an unlimited overdraft, with an increased rate of interest on so much of any debit balance as exceeds £2,000.

Analysis. Although the overdraft purports to be unlimited, the stipulation for increased interest above £2,000 brings the agreement within section 10(3)(b)(ii) and it is a consumer credit agreement.

 

EXAMPLE 18

Facts. F (an individual) has had a current account with the G Bank for many years. Although usually in credit, the account has been allowed by the Bank to become overdrawn from time to time. The maximum such overdraft has been is about £1,000. No explicit agreement has ever been made about overdraft facilities. Now, with a credit balance of £500, F draws a cheque for £1,300.

Analysis. It might well be held that the agreement with F (express or implied) under which the Bank operate his account includes an implied term giving him the right to overdraft facilities up to say £1,000. If so, the agreement is a regulated consumer credit agreement for unrestricted-use, running-account credit. It is a debtor-creditor agreement, and falls within section 74(1)(b) if covered by a direction under section 74(3). It is also a multiple agreement, part of which (i.e. the part not dealing with the overdraft), as referred to in section 18(1)(a), falls within a category of agreement not mentioned in this Act. (Compare Example 17.)

EXAMPLE 21

Facts. The P Bank decides to issue cheque cards to its customers under a scheme whereby the Bank undertakes to honour cheques of up to £30 in every case where the payee has taken the cheque in reliance on the cheque card, whether the customer has funds in his account or not. The P Bank writes to the major retailers advising them of this scheme and also publicises it by advertising. The Bank issues a cheque card to Q (an individual), who uses it to pay by cheque for goods costing £20 bought by Q from R, a major retailer. At the time, Q has £500 in his account at the P Bank.

Analysis. The agreement under which the cheque card is issued to Q is a consumer credit agreement even though at all relevant times Q has more than £30 in his account. This is because Q is free to draw out his whole balance and then use the cheque card, in which case the Bank has bound itself to honour the cheque. In other words the cheque card agreement provides Q with credit, whether he avails himself of it or not. Since the amount of the credit is not subject to any express limit, the cheque card can be used any number of times. It may be presumed however that section 10(3)(b)(iii) will apply. The agreement is an unrestricted-use debtor-creditor agreement (by section 13©). Although the P Bank wrote to R informing R of the P Bank’s willingness to honour any cheque taken by R in reliance on a cheque card, this does not constitute pre-existing arrangements as mentioned in section 13© because section 187(3) operates to prevent it. The agreement is not a credit-token agreement within section 14(1)(b) because payment by the P Bank to R, would be a payment of the cheque and not a payment for the goods.

EXAMPLE 23

Facts. Under an oral agreement made on 10th January, X (an individual) has an overdraft on his current account at the Y Bank with a credit limit of £100. On 15th February, when his overdraft standards at £90, X draws a cheque for £25. It is the first time that X has exceeded his credit limit, and on 16th February the bank honours the cheque.

Analysis. The agreement of 10th January is a consumer credit agreement for running-account credit. The agreement of 15th–16th February varies the earlier agreement by adding a term allowing the credit limit to be exceeded merely temporarily. By section 82(2) the later agreement is deemed to revoke the earlier agreement and reproduce the combined effect of the two agreements. By section 82(4), Part V of this Act (except section 56) does not apply to the later agreement. By section 18(5), a term allowing a merely temporary excess over the credit limit is not to be treated as a separate agreement, or as providing fixed-sum credit. The whole of the £115 owed to the Bank by X on 16th February is therefore running-account credit.

See which one applies to you and post back

[InKogneeToh]

I may be getting my wires crossed here, but Term seems to believe that an overdraft is indeed covered by s78. I've re-read the s74 section V exemption you uncovered earlier, but I cannot see a corresponding VI exemption for overdrafts and s77/8 are both in VI. Now, Term will hopefully post his thoughts later on today, but this would have a significant impact on banks if indeed an overdraft is covered under s78. The whole issue of default notices issued on overdrafts does still seem to have some mileage in it and I'm still hopeful that s74 doesn't exempt it.

 

 

Hi

 

Overdrafts have already been discussed on pages 90-95 of this thread.

 

Basically they are running account credit agreements covered in general by the CCA by but are (by virtue of s74) exempt from Part V of the Act.

 

Therefore there is no requirement for a formal agreement and so nothing would be forthcoming under a s78 request. The banks only have to notify you in writing of your OD limit, interest rate and procedure for termination when you are granted an authorised OD. There would be no reason to send a statement under s78 either as you receive these monthly or on request anyway.

 

Regards, Pam

[m55dlc]

OK I was getting my wires crossed here. I've mis-interpreted what Term said, so I was correct in my original 2180 post on page 109 then!

[InKogneeToh]

OK I was getting my wires crossed here. I've mis-interpreted what Term said, so I was correct in my original 2180 post on page 109 then!

 

Hi

 

Yes you were right! The Act does not explicitly exempt OD's from the s77/78 section but there is no formal agreement to get a copy of and statements are provided regularly anyway.

 

Regards, Pam

[Peterbard]

Hi Pam

 

Déjà-vu

Peter

[m55dlc]

Yes, I know this was all covered earlier, and yes, I'm sorry for raking over old coals, and yes, it was my mistake, and yes, I didn't move things forward. But, in mitigating circumstanses m'lud, Term threw me a curve ball and I was responding in the negative to him when I first spoke.

 

Whoa, Peter, accents! Whoa! Is the reason you can't type is because you've got one of those funky foreign keyboards with all the accents on and stuff? Or have you been taking lessons!

[ladybird17]

Blimey Peter - are you foreign? - your French is better than your English!

[tamadus]

Uh oh is Venus back in the night sky ?

[ladybird17]

oui - avec un verre du vin blanc, sec et froid.

 

And you should hear me when I'm sober!

[m55dlc]

Mais, c'est cinq heure du soir. Je ne suis pas sur que c'est une bonne idee de prendre quelque verres du vin parce'que ce n'est pas bonne pour la sante ou votre digestion. Aussi, ce n'est pas possible pour moi de prendre une verre maintenant par ce que je suis toujour a mon bullot

[ladybird17]

no it's not cinque, it's half past cinque, and I think it's a damn good idea, and it helps my digestion no end. You sound my like my ex-husband. Quelles horreurs! you're not are you?......no you can't be, you don't sound as though you've had a partial lobotomy, so you couldn't possibly be.

Cheers!

[elizabeth1]

Mais, c'est cinq heure du soir. Je ne suis pas sur que c'est une bonne idee de prendre quelque verres du vin parce'que ce n'est pas bonne pour la sante ou votre digestion. Aussi, ce n'est pas possible pour moi de prendre une verre maintenant par ce que je suis toujour a mon bullot

 

 

OK - I'll have a glass of white austrailian wine too!! Then I will just keep guessing the rest then!!

[ladybird17]

yes you're right Elizabeth - never noticed he was foreign too - and they call us whinging poms! I find a little dish of Greek Kalamata olives goes down well with a glass or two - and for the foreigners infiltrating on here, try a packet of Co-op texas barbecue crisps

[lookinforinfo]

m55dlc Je ne comprends pas que vouz avez dit. Il est tout Grec à moi.

 

You don't need a foreign keyboard-click on Start-Programs-Accessories-

System Tool-Character map. There you will find all sorts of different signs

and characters that you can copy and paste. [You'll note that I didn't write that in French.]

[m55dlc]

Yeeess Eye deeeid zee zat!

 

No, I'm not French or Greek or anything like that. Hey, it was friday evening at work and I was bored out of my mind. No, ladybird, I'm not your ex-husband. If anyone who actually knew any french above a-level they would point out about 150 errors in my sentence!

[m55dlc]

Il est tout Grec à moi.

 

 

He is all Greek at mine?

[ladybird17]

didn't want to make you look stupid.

[TideTurner]

I did try that with the Information Commissioners Office and the Information Commissioners Office says they are not being duplicitious..I tried that argument about MBNA passing itself off as A & L and holding my data without my permission, but Information Commissioners Office says as it was a commercial transaction we were notified (NOT) this is lawful. I lost that argument sadly. I couldn't prove I did not receive the letter and they couldn't prove I had received it. They sent a generic letter to the Information Commissioners Office as proof that ALL A & L customers were notified.

 

Battleaxe, why would you have to prove that you have received a letter? The fact they cannot provide any evidence that an original was sent should have been enough, also why haven't they got the original? The onus must fall on them, not you.

 

Halifax have informed me "you would have received such notification at the time". They then claimed that the first letter they sent to me was sufficient! Do they even have proof of postage? Something that important should have been recorded.

 

I've emailed you but just in case you didn't get it the FSA have been bashing the banks again

 

Remortgaging guide| Remortgage | Remortgage UK | Mortgage | 100% Mortgage - MSN Money UK - Consumers set for £100 million mortgage refund

 

 

 

Terminator, you drive them to the beaches, I'll be waiting when they swim for it.

[Guest The Terminator]

Terminator, you drive them to the beaches, I'll be waiting when they swim for it.

 

I hope their good at digging trenches because I haven't finished with them yet.Big Bomb coming over soon:-D

[elizabeth1]

Terminator, you drive them to the beaches, I'll be waiting when they swim for it.

 

I hope their good at digging trenches because I haven't finished with them yet.Big Bomb coming over soon:-D

 

 

Well I hope a few people fall into the trenches - I'll be first in line to kick the sands back over them :lol:

[tamadus]

[TideTurner]

My Son-in-Law has today been charged £3.50 for an unpaid DD. If that isn't a climb down, I don't know what is!

[elizabeth1]

My Son-in-Law has today been charged £3.50 for an unpaid DD. If that isn't a climb down, I don't know what is!

 

 

Who was that with??????????????

[TideTurner]

Lloyds TSB