Cap1 & CCA return

[deb4tlj]

Hey Car. My next step is to send a SAR. There is no default on this account as I have been struggling to pay the minimum every month - every month I get it back under 1500 - just - and then they stick on their charges and back it goes over again!

 

I'm afraid I don't have the letter about them stating what my credit limit would be.

[davefirewalker]

Hi..

 

Just to put my oar in.......

 

The back of the doc notwithstanding...the agreement looks like it complies with the CCA1974.

 

it has the prescribed terms

 

Credit limit.......(we will determine it and may vary it)

repayments

interest rate and APR

 

Anything else may only make it improperly executed and enforceable by court order.....but nothing to stop it being enforced....

 

Sorry

[car2403]

If they do send a Default Notice, it shouldn't contain the value of the charges if they intend to enforce the agreement.

 

I wouldn't advise this, but you could stop paying in the hope they will Default you and it will include the charges, which makes the Default unlawful and inaccurate. It's risky, as they may remove the charges before issuing it, but it's unlikely they will be switched on enough to do that.

 

Arguments about unenforceable agreements are always supported by additional arguments surrounding inaccurate Default Notices, IMHO.

[IIIUMINATI]

Hello Deb4

The Alliance letter.

 

/ Copy of the original Application.

 

I can apply for a gun license driving license Tesco card but my application is only a request for consideration.

 

Normally when an application for services is made the supplier makes a decision to either accept the application and provide the services requested or reject the application.

 

If accepted an Agreement is provided which contains terms conditions etc

and is signed by both the supplier IE: on behalf of XXX Bank and the customer.

 

I understand that the signatures of both parties have to be contained in separate box`s on the agreement.

 

I would be greatfull for any comments or corrections which may apply

 

 

regards.

IIIl

[B3rty]

For copies under sect77/78 they may omit sigs however for 127(3) this probably wouldn't stand up in (sigs and prescribed terms)

 

Look at me I'm sounding like an expert now...lol...slap me down if I'm getting too bold....

 

Jokes aside.... I have looked at this for my own purposes and have come to the conclusion that some copies are OK for the section 77/78 copy but not for 127(3) purposes , however IMHO... if you want to get to the court stage you need to be pretty confident of your abilty to convince the Judge thats its not an executed agreement.

[paulwlton]

Hello Deb4

The Alliance letter.

 

/ Copy of the original Application.

 

I can apply for a gun license driving license Tesco card but my application is only a request for consideration.

 

Normally when an application for services is made the supplier makes a decision to either accept the application and provide the services requested or reject the application.

 

If accepted an Agreement is provided which contains terms conditions etc

and is signed by both the supplier IE: on behalf of XXX Bank and the customer.

 

I understand that the signatures of both parties have to be contained in separate box`s on the agreement.

 

I would be greatfull for any comments or corrections which may apply

 

 

regards.

IIIl

 

There as been much debate on application/agreements on this thread. My own view is if the document they provide conforms with the Act/regs then it's enforceable ie: contains the signature and proscribed terms, but then there's the s 59 issue. I think it would be hard to convince a judge that it wasn't fully executed if it conformed.

[deb4tlj]

I don't want to stop paying as I spent the money therefore I owe it. What I DO object to however is their horrendous charging system making me go over the agreed limit every month thereby incurring even more charges! I think my next step is going to be a SAR request to claim the charges back and they can take it from the amount owing - that way I'll end up owing a more manageable amount.

[car2403]

I don't want to stop paying as I spent the money therefore I owe it. What I DO object to however is their horrendous charging system making me go over the agreed limit every month thereby incurring even more charges! I think my next step is going to be a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request to claim the charges back and they can take it from the amount owing - that way I'll end up owing a more manageable amount.

 

It won't stop them adding charges to your account in the future, though.

[deb4tlj]

How can I get them to stop adding charges?

[davefirewalker]

Hi..

 

Just to put my oar in.......

 

The back of the doc notwithstanding...the agreement looks like it complies with the CCA1974.

 

it has the prescribed terms

 

Credit limit.......(we will determine it and may vary it)

repayments

interest rate and APR

 

Anything else may only make it improperly executed and enforceable by court order.....but nothing to stop it being enforced....

 

Sorry

 

You are batting on a sticky wicket here...the agreement looks enforceable and they will continue to add charges.......

the only way forward is as you said do an SAR and reclaim the charges......or even more dangerous and not to be tried without deep thought...let them default you and go for unlawfull recission of contract and **try** to lose it that way..........very risky though

 

looks like the only real way is to claim your charges back and try to keep within their limits....(ouch that hurt, I HATE saying things like that)

 

rgds

 

Dave

[car2403]

How can I get them to stop adding charges?

 

You can't, so you either stay within your limits or stop using the account in a way that means you are paying fees, as Dave says.

 

Have you spoken to the creditor, as a simple increase in credit limit would stop the application of fees - a responsible lender (I use the term loosely) should make allowances for you.

[Scrappy01]

Hi again everyone.....

 

Can anyone give me advice on a NatWest problem? I CCA'd Natwest and what they returned is a Credit Card Account Application Form from 2000(which I can't read) that is signed by me. All they have done is stamped it. There seems to be no real signature in the box. Also they have included a Credit Card Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Key Financial Infomation document. This has no signatures or even spaces for signatures and it is the one that is currently in force on my account (so they say).

 

1st question, without a signature from the bank is the application form valid with just a stamp?

2nd question, as there are no perscribed terms on the application form and no signature on the current Credit Agreement is it enforcable? As I can't read the application form I can see if it refers to another document.

3rd question, shouldn't I have the CCA agreement from the time I signed the form, ie 2000?

4th question, are they allowed to just change my (supposed, unsigned) CCA agreement? Section 82 indicates they must send me a copy before they can do this.... and they never have done.

 

I can post both parts on here tomorrow if anyone has the time to take a look?

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[rosierose]

A creditor, post April 2007, gives you a blank piece of paper, containing nothing other than your signature as a copy of an agreement post singing.

 

Is there an agreement at all?

 

The agreement is obviously improperly executed. But even with s127 now emasculated could a creditor hope to enforce an agreement without every requirement for content and terms?

 

Has anyone been there?

[car2403]

1st question, without a signature from the bank is the application form valid with just a stamp?

 

There are mixed views on this one. The Act requires a signature, as defined under s.189, from both parties to enforce the agreement. The generally supported view on this site, which I happen to subscribe to, is that no "signature" (a written name) is required to enforce an agreement as the Court will look at the intention to create legal relations (which has its basis in contract law, which a CCA agreement is) and will view the fact that you've received benefit (again, a legal term) under the agreement as meaning it can be enforced. Also, a "signature" in these terms isn't required as (it's arguable at least) that a company logo - and even a company stamp - would suffice for these purposes.

 

2nd question, as there are no perscribed terms on the application form and no signature on the current Credit Agreement is it enforcable? As I can't read the application form I can see if it refers to another document.

 

If there are no prescribed terms, the agreement (whether or not its an application form) is unenforceable in Court. If the agreement is at all illegable, it can't be relied on without having an original that is legable. (They can provide a copy under the Act, but need the original to enforce in Court) The signature document must include the prescribed/required terms within it - it can't refer to them as being in another document, although the terms and conditions can be referred to in that way.

 

3rd question, shouldn't I have the CCA agreement from the time I signed the form, ie 2000?

 

I'm not sure what the question is here? They should provide a copy of the originally executed credit agreement along with any applicable terms and conditions that are referred to in it. If the terms allow those terms to be varied, they should also provide the current terms that are applicable to the agreement.

 

4th question, are they allowed to just change my (supposed, unsigned) CCA agreement? Section 82 indicates they must send me a copy before they can do this.... and they never have done.

 

They can amend the terms of the agreement, but only where the original terms allow such variation. s.82 only works where the original agreement is regulated - if, as you say, the original is unsigned, you could argue that the original agreement wasn't regulated (being improperly executed) and therefore s.82 has no function here.

 

I can post both parts on here tomorrow if anyone has the time to take a look?

 

Sure thing - have you started your own thread on this? Probably best off posting the agreement there, along with a link on this thread, so we can take a look for you.

[Scrappy01]

Hi car2403

 

Here is the link to my own Natwest thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/125781-natwest-cca-response.html#post1314892

 

I've posted the docs as a PDF in there. If you could take a look I'd really appreciate any help.

 

Thanks.

[blencathra]

Following on from my recent actions. I can now inform you that the 30 days are now here and still no actions from TSB/LLoyds. Capital One had the cheek to send me a new statement with a late payment charge on it and Littlewoods say my request is being looked into and passed to the relevant department, that was dated 20th December 2007. The whole episode started on 20th November 2007. so now i am about to write to them with an appropriate letter,informing them , that they are now committing an illegal act. I expect references on my credit file to be deleted I am looking for a suitable template letter. If anybody could point me in the right direction Please.

[car2403]

Could some of you resident CCA experts take a look at this thread for me?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/117597-what-next.html

 

CCJ that has been enforced in the form of a Charging Order, which the creditor has removed after defaulting on a CCA request and is now chasing the OP to sign a new agreement. Is now a good time to request a set aside? I'm out of my depth on this one, so any support on the thread itself would really help the OP out.

 

Ta muchly.

[Peterbard]

A creditor, post April 2007, gives you a blank piece of paper, containing nothing other than your signature as a copy of an agreement post singing.

 

Is there an agreement at all?

 

The agreement is obviously improperly executed. But even with s127 now emasculated could a creditor hope to enforce an agreement without every requirement for content and terms?

 

Has anyone been there?

 

 

Hi

While the above could be classed as an agreement in the same manner as a orall agreement could it would not however conform to the cca 1974 as it would have to have all the terms of the agreement "reduced to writing".

Failure to do so would breach sections 55,60 and 61 of the act and would be unenforceable due to 127(1) and may be classed as an unexecuted (189)agreement in terms of the cca.

 

Best regards

Peter

[rosierose]

Hi

While the above could be classed as an agreement in the same manner as a orall agreement could it would not however conform to the cca 1974 as it would have to have all the terms of the agreement "reduced to writing".

Failure to do so would breach sections 55,60 and 61 of the act and would be unenforceable due to 127(1) and may be classed as an unexecuted (189)agreement in terms of the cca.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

Thanks Peter

[stapeley]

Hello everyone , seems a massive post ! . here is my case . Three accounts have been passed to DCA ,s . When asked the OC,s have said they are no longer dealing with them and accounts have been passed on. On two i have letters saying the DCA have purchased the accounts ..

My income has fallen to only £500 per month , i have a three year old to look after. This is why i have got into problems .

I have been hassled by these companies , both by letter and phone . I was advised to request a CCA and deeds of assignment from these DCA .I have done this now with all of them . Early stage with two , not reached the 12 days, but coming up to the month time scale with the first one .

 

My question is what happens now ? If they produce them after the set time ? Can i request they clear my account from their files ? Does the CCA not have a cut off point ? I,ve looked at the other posts and just got more confused !

[221b]

Would someone mind having a look at my own Capquest Mini Hell ? !!

 

Here is the link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/125928-capquest-threats-ethics-non.html#post1316443.

 

Not sure what specific action I should take next or with whom.

 

All pointers gratefully received...

 

Happy New Year!

 

221b

[adarling2006]

need some advice on this thread please.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/125991-cca-request-hbos.html#post1317058

[Peterbard]

Hello everyone , seems a massive post ! . here is my case . Three accounts have been passed to DCA ,s . When asked the OC,s have said they are no longer dealing with them and accounts have been passed on. On two i have letters saying the DCA have purchased the accounts ..

My income has fallen to only £500 per month , i have a three year old to look after. This is why i have got into problems .

I have been hassled by these companies , both by letter and phone . I was advised to request a CCA and deeds of assignment from these DCA .I have done this now with all of them . Early stage with two , not reached the 12 days, but coming up to the month time scale with the first one .

 

My question is what happens now ? If they produce them after the set time ? Can i request they clear my account from their files ? Does the CCA not have a cut off point ? I,ve looked at the other posts and just got more confused !

 

 

HI

 

If the request to produce the agreements is complied with they are legally free to pursue the debt through the courts whenever they produce even if after the timescale itemised in section 77-79.

 

Also bear in mind that just because they cannot enforce it does not mean that they cannot ask for payment, they just cannot take you to court or threaten to do so whilst they are in default for none production within 12 days.

 

Have you contacted any of the legitimate debt helplines CAB etc.

 

Remember they cannot make you pay back more than you can affford if these debts are legitimate then i would draw up a list of income and expenses, making sure that you allow yourself everything that you and your nipper requires including gas electric rates etc and then send this with an offer of a monthly payment to be credited to your account.

 

You may only be able to offer a couple of pounds a month but it does not matter, they may huff and puff but they know that the court would not order you to pay any more than you can afford and it would get them off your back.

 

Have a look through the letter template library on here for an appropriate letter.

 

Keep your chin up

Best regards

Peter

[Having_A_Knightmare]

Hi All

 

One Question.

 

Is APR a prescribed term or does it have to be normal intrest

 

Also no mention of Cancellation in the agreement or t&C

 

[Having_A_Knightmare]

I think I have got confused about the cancellation part. The loan was done over the phone and Liverpool Victoria have not given me any Cancellation rights.

 

HAK