Cap1 & CCA return

[paulwlton]

Actually reg. 3 says that they can omit.

However, reg 7 contradicts that;

 

Factually, a 'true' copy of the original executed agreement, is required!

 

AC

 

Can you eleborate on that?

[BlueSquirrel]

Rubbish!

 

How could an executed copy, prior to 2004, be cosidered to be a true exected copy,

if the agreement does not bear the signatue!

 

Ah, they might well prove compliance, but to enter the arena of court;

a true signed, executed copy of an agreement would be necessary; IMHO.

 

AC

 

Nonesense.

 

AC

 

Am I being a thicky, this agreement was signed in April 2004, does this affect things?

 

They have sent a photocopy of the Rapid reply card which has my signature on it but it says enclosed T & C and I thought they had to be part of the same document?

 

The T & C they sent are definitely not the ones that applied when the card was taken out and have my current address on, not the address that applied at the time, is this acceptable? I think the default notice is invalid anyway and they have now terminated the account.

 

Thanks to everyone for their help. I will set up my own thread as I don't want to hijack this one but this whole "copy" issue is of general interest I think.

[underdog13]

The prescribed terms need to be within the four corners of the agreement - general T&Cs can be in a separate document:-)

Edited January 8, 2009 by underdog13

[underdog13]

If they terminated on an invalid DN, I believe that is unlawful recission; they will only be entitled to the arrears if anything at all:D

[BlueSquirrel]

The prescribed terms need to be within the four corners of the agreement - general T&Cs can be in a separate document:-)

 

No prescribed terms in the bit I signed, they are in a separate document, so in another four corners altogether....

[BlueSquirrel]

If they terminated on an invalid DN, I believe that is unlawful recission; they will only be entitled to the arrears if anything at all:D

 

They did not give me the required amount of time to respond, I am not sure if there is anything elses wrong with it but I wouldn't be surprised. I have been distracted from that one by a comedy agreement from MBNA.

[underdog13]

Yes MBNA agreements are usually good for a laugh:D

 

Was this the account that was originally with another lender, Bluesquirrel? And does it differ from the original you have kept? Please, please, please say it does;)

[BlueSquirrel]

Yes MBNA agreements are usually good for a laugh:D

 

Was this the account that was originally with another lender, Bluesquirrel? And does it differ from the original you have kept? Please, please, please say it does;)

 

Yes and Yes. Because the agreement they sent was an MBNA one.

[lexis200]

Doh - OH didn't keep his original, and although some people reckon his is a Blue Peter job, it's not something I'm willing to go wading into with them:(

 

I am currently looking for something to thwomp him on the head with repeatedly whilst muttering 'repeat after me - keep all your paperwork!'

[angry cat]

Can you eleborate on that?

 

7(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, EVERY COPY OF THE EXECUTED AGREEMENT given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) SHALL INCLUDE either-

 

a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied;

 

or

 

b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

 

Regulation 7 refers to a copy of the executed agreement and that sub sections a) or b) are in addition to this AND NOT ANY ALTERNATIVE TO SENDING THE ACTUAL EXECUTED AGREEMENT.

 

AC

[citizenB]

It is actually the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 that allows them (they certainly don't require them)

 

I find it almost unbelieveable - if they have the document, surely just photocopying it must be the easiest option. All this posturing about what is and isn't allowed by the CCA 1974 and associated regulations must indicate that they don't actually have the original at all.

 

This is something I have constantly said.. IF they have it, what is their problem ........... grrrrr

[underdog13]

Yes and Yes. Because the agreement they sent was an MBNA one.

 

Are they claiming you signed an MBNA agreement when you didn't? Or is it just a blank agreement?

[Alphageek]

If anyone has time, could you offer advice on this thread I have started for a friend of mine please?

[foolishgirl]

I am currently looking for something to thwomp him on the head with repeatedly whilst muttering 'repeat after me - keep all your paperwork!'

 

:D Same here!!

[citizenB]

Doh - OH didn't keep his original, and although some people reckon his is a Blue Peter job, it's not something I'm willing to go wading into with them:(

 

I am currently looking for something to thwomp him on the head with repeatedly whilst muttering 'repeat after me - keep all your paperwork!'

 

:D Same here!!

 

As I understand it, a cricket or baseball bat makes a pretty good "thwomp", but if you find something else that might not make such a mess I would be interested to hear of it.

[lexis200]

put a sock on the end of it. it deadens the noise at least:)

[underdog13]

OOh you are harsh; if you treat your OHs like that I can just imagine what you would do to a doorstep collector:p

[reallymadwoman]

If you really like the noise, a rolled up newspaper can be very satisfying and avoids the blood stains on the carpet.

[lexis200]

Excellent, I'll have to go round to dads and get the Sunday supplement edition:D

[hellhasnofury]

Na, you don't need the paper.

 

You should put the sock over their head for two reasons.

 

One they can't see whats coming:p

Two the mess is contained in the sock:p

 

Oh whatever am I thinking, perhaps you should get the paper:D

[millymollymoo]

Hi I wonder if you could help is this 1 page document received enforceable/ No T&C's referred to received.

 

[steven4064]

Hi 3m

 

It is a bit small but it seems to be an enforceable agreement - it has the prescribed terms (which is what matters) in points 1,2 and 3 and your signature at the bottom.

 

However, it is not a properly executed agreement as the title is wrong - it should say Credit Card Agreement.... That means it can only be enforced by a court. A court would enforce it though.

[underdog13]

That looks really peculiar to me MMM- could it be one of RBS notorious reconstructions??

[Enron]

I smell a fish, normally the application form also serves as the executed agreement...... and there is no space here to fill in your own details.

 

The question I suppose is do you have any recollection of signing this document?

[davefirewalker]

Just a thought to ponder.............

 

We know that if an agreement is missing a prescribed term then the court is forced to declare it unenforceable.

 

Now assume that an agreement is missing a required term..............its improperly executed and can only be enforced by order of the court.

 

ok we all agree

 

so you go to court and the court enforces it..... unfortunate, but hey this is the real world !

 

Was the charging of interest and demanding payment .....even issuing default notices before it was PROPERLY executed......LEGAL??

 

this has been puzzling me for a while now, I would welcome any thoughts

 

rgds

 

Dave