Cap1 & CCA return

[Goldlady]

I think that is a proper agreement which creditors were were supposed to send out after you had applied for the card, which you were then supposed to sign and return. I think in many cases these agreements were never sent out at all and if they were the creditors didn't push for their return, which is why so many people are succeeding when they ask for a copy of their CCA.

 

I notice now that any credit agreements I am involved with (not my own - never again!) actually insist on the signed agreement being returned and they chase it if you don't.

[Viscount Stair]

Someone who subscribes to the Legal Realist school of jurisprudence would say that the law is whatever a district judge says it is in a county court on a wet Tuesday. But that is a very cynical point of view.

[Viscount Stair]

Tried using the Internet Archive Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org - a sort of Library of Congress for the Internet - to check out RBS Advanta to look for any possible discrepancies.

 

Interestingly, RBS Advanta's website was blocked and has not been archived.

[ncf355]

Just a thought to ponder.............

 

We know that if an agreement is missing a prescribed term then the court is forced to declare it unenforceable.

 

Now assume that an agreement is missing a required term..............its improperly executed and can only be enforced by order of the court.

 

ok we all agree

 

so you go to court and the court enforces it..... unfortunate, but hey this is the real world !

 

Was the charging of interest and demanding payment .....even issuing default notices before it was PROPERLY executed......LEGAL??

 

this has been puzzling me for a while now, I would welcome any thoughts

 

rgds

 

Dave

 

Utterly bizzare DF!

 

I was just thinking of the same and cant remember this being properly debated, so I've decided to start a spin off thread

 

Can we have contributions from our more learned members please?

 

(that includes YOU, DF!)

 

 

 

THREAD HERE

[Otto Bender]

Hello brothers and sisters - I'm completely new to this site - and the concept of DIY-escape-money thingy. It seems that the very first step is this asking for a cca from whoever you owe to...yeah? (I have been paying lumps to egg, mbna and nat west... It all gives me hope but I get this terrible feeling that I signed soemthing! Anyway... I should just send em the letter (with the £1) to find out...is that the start?

Also do I need another thread for bank charges? Which one? (it's a whole universe in here init?) I've had Barclays egt over 1.5 K off me in the last few years I worked out tomight after being online last... WOW - any comment fing greatly appreciated thanks - Otto

[BlueSquirrel]

Are they claiming you signed an MBNA agreement when you didn't? Or is it just a blank agreement?

 

It is a blank one. They say they have not been able to photocopy my original agreement and hope this one will be sufficient for my purposes. They have not used the phrase "true copy." I think they are wriggling here perhaps?

[davefirewalker]

Hello brothers and sisters - I'm completely new to this site - and the concept of DIY-escape-money thingy. It seems that the very first step is this asking for a cca from whoever you owe to...yeah? (I have been paying lumps to egg, mbna and nat west... It all gives me hope but I get this terrible feeling that I signed soemthing! Anyway... I should just send em the letter (with the £1) to find out...is that the start?

Also do I need another thread for bank charges? Which one? (it's a whole universe in here init?) I've had Barclays egt over 1.5 K off me in the last few years I worked out tomight after being online last... WOW - any comment fing greatly appreciated thanks - Otto

 

I would take some time out and read and read and read........just so you get the procedure and the facts sorted

 

CCA s 77-78 is not "always" the best way to go...but it is a starting point

 

before we can advise you you need to have a little understanding of whats going on and the risks involved.

 

we could also do with seeing the agreement (personal details removed)

 

rgds

 

Dave

[Otto Bender]

Thanks Dave I've tried to pick up alot from a few hours here in the last 3 days - but I need to buy a book ..yes? I can't really take much time out as I teach andf manage in an 'educational unit' (you know the places) so although I have reasonable wage it's just not enough at the moment...it does take up far too much time though ! Cheers Otto

[underdog13]

It is a blank one. They say they have not been able to photocopy my original agreement and hope this one will be sufficient for my purposes. They have not used the phrase "true copy." I think they are wriggling here perhaps?

 

Shame. Imagine the fun you could have had if they cut and pasted your signature:D

 

MBNA actually came up with my HBOS agreements that they bought out - mixed bag of results; prescribed terms, but mostly illegible. Original account number on one (now different number on card account), one suspiciously compliant - a bit too pat, if you know what I mean. Will post them up on my thread tomorrow. Desperately in need of a glass (or two) of wine right now....

[davefirewalker]

Shame. Imagine the fun you could have had if they cut and pasted your signature:D

 

MBNA actually came up with my HBOS agreements that they bought out - mixed bag of results; prescribed terms, but mostly illegible. Original account number on one (now different number on card account), one suspiciously compliant - a bit too pat, if you know what I mean. Will post them up on my thread tomorrow. Desperately in need of a glass (or two) of wine right now....

 

NOTHING suprises me about MBNA.........

 

just finished my first bottle...a rather nice Merlot 12.5%.....hmmm tasty

 

cant wait to see the "agreements"

 

rgds

Dave

[foolishgirl]

It is a blank one. They say they have not been able to photocopy my original agreement and hope this one will be sufficient for my purposes.

 

Oh, poor MBNA. are times so hard for them that they can't afford a photocopier or do they just not know how to refill the paper tray?

[steven4064]

I keep pointing out that the case law on true copies dates back to the 1840s when true copies were made on parchment with a quill pen. If MBNA can't afford a photocopier they could always revert to the former technology

[angry cat]

A question!

 

What is the position when an account has been terminated without serving a DN? and the termination letter bears the correct account number, but an incorrect name;

 

I am of the opinion that the termination would be ineffectual.

 

Now to go a little further, not only was the account terminated ineffectively, but it was then sold to a DCA.

 

What is the legal position of the DCA in relation to the above scenario;

how does the ineffectual termination by the OC affect the DCA who is pursuing the alleged debt?

 

AC

[millymollymoo]

Hi 3m

 

It is a bit small but it seems to be an enforceable agreement - it has the prescribed terms (which is what matters) in points 1,2 and 3 and your signature at the bottom.

 

However, it is not a properly executed agreement as the title is wrong - it should say Credit Card Agreement.... That means it can only be enforced by a court. A court would enforce it though.

 

Hi Steven, underdod and enron. Many thanks for your replies.

 

 

Hi yes It came extremely tiny! I have enlarged it as best I could! This came on an A4 paper and the size was just one 1/4 of the page! The 'agreement' refers to T&C's in the small print these have not been sent. I am wondering if they have the original at all as this until enlarged is virtually illegible. Could this be on microfilm or something??

 

 

My question is how can they refer through the course of the agreement to the cards T &C's if this is ALL they have sent and all that is signed. In other words without full T&C's whatt right did they have to charge late payment fee's, pass the account to third parties etc if they are not within the signature doc or proven ever provided. This document was obviously pre contract as the card was yet to be issued and application computer info came on the other side of the A4 paper. This I suppose becane executed on sending the card {I never received this or any T &C's though] I KEEP EVERYTHINGSO i KNOW.

 

Milly X

Edited January 10, 2009 by millymollymoo
added agreement

[steven4064]

They don't have the right to take late payment fees whatever the T&Cs say.

 

An application form is a pre-contract document but CC companies often structure them so that they become (in theory at least) a properly executed agreement when signed. THey don't always get it right though.

[davefirewalker]

Hi guys...

 

if you have a minute I would appreciate thoughts on this agreement

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1910463.html

 

ta

 

rgds

 

Dave

Edited January 10, 2009 by davefirewalker

[davefirewalker]

Hey guys can someone please have a look at this...its heartbreaking

 

these people need some help ...quickly

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/176992-ccjs-only-option-us.html

 

Dave

[angry cat]

They could obtain help by phoning the CLS, who would put them in touch with a solicitor who would give them initial legal assistance up to 500, if they qualify.

Why hasn't the CAB told them that?

 

AC

[davefirewalker]

They could obtain help by phoning the CLS, who would put them in touch with a solicitor who would give them initial legal assistance up to 500, if they qualify.

Why hasn't the CAB told them that?

 

AC

 

Pass...some CAB's seem to be worse than others, it depends on who you get I suppose. But they do need to get help

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/176992-ccjs-only-option-us.html

 

rgds

 

Dave

[web2dude]

Hello, could someone take a look at this HSBC agreement for me please - I've created a new thread, but no opinions as yet. Link as follows:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/177074-hsbc-agreement-validity.html

 

Thanks.

[I&C]

Sorry to hijack the thread -but could anyone please give me their opinion on whether this Halifax agreement is compliant?

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/177349-cca-halifax-can-someone.html#post1914758

 

Many MANY thanks for any help!

[Desperate Daniella]

I'd be grateful to know if anyone thinks my 'agreement' is enforceable. I haven't got a scanner but have typed it up on my thread

 

Lombard Direct (RBS) Unenforceable Agreement?

 

There are no prescribed terms at all, but I have signed it.

 

Thank you.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

Sorry I don't think my link works. Trying again

 

Lombard Direct (RBS) Unenforceable Agreement

 

DD

[davefirewalker]

hmmmm...kept taking me to the main page.....

 

try this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/176192-lombard-direct-rbs-unenforceable.html

 

Dave

[paulwlton]

Well worth a look at the OFTs latest letter.

 

PW

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/93663-letters-dti-oft-regarding-3.html