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Cap1 & CCA return


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The reason I asked about the APR is because I knew how high it would be - but didn't want to ask leading questions.

 

As this APR is so high, this is probably an unconscienable and extortionate bargain and a Judge would be unlikely to allow enforcement of the entire debt as a result. He would be more likely to say you were prejudiced by the agreement, as a result of the high interest rate, and that the agreement is unenforceable as a result.

 

The other reason I ask is that I too have a Provident loan that I was unable to repay. I offered payments that the local office couldn't accept, but the Agent was and still is a good friend of mine, who told me not to worry as the debts are passed to a Solicitor acting for PPC, who are instructed to accept anything that you offer which seems reasonable - the theory is that they've charged you so much in interest that allowing you extra time to repay the debt is better than having to write it off as it's assessed as unenforceable by a Court. As a result, I am currently paying £5 per month on a small outstanding balance - and I have done for the last 4 years.

 

There are other issues with the agreement, but I would personally follow the route I've outlined here before trying to have it declared unenforceable.

 

I can elaborate on the issues with it, but it may not be worth it, at this stage - you'd be better off having your own thread, too.

 

The witness was the agent and she also signed the agreement. What would my next steps be i.e. Should I take them to court and how do it do that?

 

There's no requirement under the CCA for an agreement to be "witnessed", so this won't effect the execution of the agreement.

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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I know that there is no requirement for a CCA Regulated Agreement to be witnessed but it does form part of the overall picture of shoddy practice that it would do harm to paint.

 

Also bear in mind that the new Unfair Relationships provisions now apply instead of the old ones restricted to unconscionable and extortionate bargains. The new provisions allow a much broader view to be taken.

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Folks, thanks foor the details on terminated contracts, case law would be a real bonus but what you have all said makes sense re definition of an "agreement"

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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I do have my own thread under legal issues, but no one was answering my bumps.

 

I had issues with my agent not calling to my house. Provident placed an entry into my experian report which I am trying to get removed at the moment.

 

I am also due to try and get a mortgage in March and I'm trying not to let this effect my scoring so I am still paying them and will continue to do so until I sort out this agreement.

 

I just don't know where to start with court action.:confused:

Provident - CCA Request - CCA Received, challenging report with CRA.

Experian - Removal of data request - 10/11/2008 ****** WON AGAINST EXPERIAN *****;)

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Sorry to hijack this thread, but it does seem to be very active with some knowledegable members.

 

After many months Barclaycard have provided me with what they say is the CCA.

 

I'd be really very grateful if you could spare the time to look at what they sent and let me know if it's enforceable

 

(it's barely legible and they had to blow it up to A3 size)

 

My own thread with link to what they sent is here

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Hi all

Been a member here for a long time but never posted, I started read this thread the other day, but still on page 155 but working to catch up, was interested in the s85 bit that tamadus and ladybird and others started, and unenforceable agreements, so started to send out 77/78 to my creditors, some are good some are not, Barclaycard for one that cabot now have is no good at all, anyway, if any one can help me that would be good, what I want to know is, I have a agreement for a credit card with northern rock which I think is ok not sure yet, but the account is with the co op bank as they in about 2004 acquired a lot of northern rock card accounts, now the agreement they have is with northern rock on a different account no to the co op account, so is it enforceable.

Agreement for one account, with a account number, taking me to court regarding the co op account, with a different account number, but using the Northern rock agreement,

 

Can any of you far brainier people them me shed any light on this, PLEASE

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Hi Richard - welcome to CAG

 

This thread is so big now that you will find it easier to get specific advice & also others will be able to follow you threads better if you can post each individual creditor in the appropriate forum eg. Barclaycard for BC bank & credit cards etc.

 

Also if you can them scan in a copy of your CCAs (minus the personal details) CAGers will be able to advise.

 

You'll find the relevant pages here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/#consumer-forums-center-bank

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Dont know what to do here my brother got me on the case with these CCA's - I have had three replys so far:

 

Cap One - contains one double sided A4 letter stating 'credit card agreement' however, with no signature or date etc... but they have stated that:

 

'in accordance with section 78 of the consumer credit act 74 and the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copy documents) regulations 83, this is your original agreement, and if any terms have been varied then the copy agreement will include the updated terms. In addition, your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been omitted from the copy provided as permitted under regulation 3 of the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copy documents) regulations 83'

 

Does anyone understand that? - if this is my 'original' where is my signnature????

 

I am also on a repayment offer with them but they have also added, for good measure, requesting full payment!

 

Any ideas what to do here?

 

Also, Amex have replied enclosing a signed 'application' form and a ten page dossier of T&C's with no signature on! - anyone else come across this?

 

Last, GE Money - they sold my debt to CL Finance - they have acknowledged my request but say that they no longer administer that account they are no longer obliged to provide info requested in accordance with section 78 of the CCA 74

 

They have transfered my £1 payment to CL and say I should contact them for any further details

 

Again, any ideas on what to do?

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Hi terlyn1104,

 

This is a load of tripe - suggest you start a thread in the relevant forum for each one, where you can post up what you have received (with personal details removed) and we can pop in and rip each reply to shreds for you...

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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hello all, this is my first post but have been reading posts for quite sometime, finding the information very useful. i am looking for some advise on CCA request with HSBC if possible.

 

my situation is i had a student bank account where i went over my overdraft limit after going into hospital for three opps - so the bank cancelled the visa card, my credit card and overdraft putting it all into a managed loan. it came to about £2100 after being stung by moneyshop, but my limit was £1500. my balace went to 0.00 with no overdraft, no CC and a electron card.

 

7 months later i got a letter saying my limit is now £1500 which i have used? i then went into the bank about 12 months ago just before they changed the T & c of my overdraft charging me 25.00 for the pleasure and putting up my interest rate, but i didn't sign anything. the lady said i should not have had the overdraft as i have a managed loan. i only owe 341.87 now on the managed loan but does the CCA cover both or just the managed loan, and if so is the mistaken overdraft non-enforceable but i continue to pay the managed loan, or will the new overdraft with the same account number as my old one be under the same cca? i think they could send the old CCA for the mistaken overdraft.

 

sorry to hijack the original thread

 

mrebuzz

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new to all this and need help. so sorry if hijacking thread. took a joint loan out with ex and have paid her half of the loan amount to her satisfaction and told me that my part of it was sorted, until recently i recieved a letter from blair oliver scott trying to recover the money from me, now my ex sorted the loan out in 2001 and i cant remember sighning anything, how do i request for the agreement, and also 18 months ago she got help with debt consolidation people to help her with debts which she said included this one, what do i do as i do not want to pay twice????? many thanks

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Hi Mrebuzz

 

Like Richard & terlyn above, it would be more helpful for you if you could start a new thread in the appropiate forum for each of your accounts. This thread is so large your queries are likely to get overlooked here.

 

To start a new thread, go to the front page of CAG forums:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

Click on the forum you think is correct for your query then at the LH side, just below the announcments you will see the 'New Thread' button. Click on it & you're away...

 

Useful link for newbies: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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may i formally bring to the attention of our subscribers the follwing post from alanfromderby

 

quote

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/announcement.php?f=&a=149

 

 

Have you had dealings with a West Yorkshire based Debt Collection Agency?

 

If so, we have received this request for help:

 

I'm a journalist at the BBC, working in local radio in West Yorkshire. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has had dealings with any West Yorkshire based debt collection agencies. If you too are based in West Yorkshire that would be ideal, however I'm still very interested in hearing from people all across the UK.

 

After initial chats at some stage I may wish to do a pre recorded interview with you. If anyone would like to get in touch to tell me about their past or current situations with West Yorkshire DCAs please contact me at: [email protected]

 

unquote

..

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I am appealing for some urgent help on my thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/77464-pudsters14-mbna-16.html ........................ Please have a look. I have put together a witness statement and have to provide the court with copy of all the docs I am planning to rely on. Everything is on my thread... the order from court, the amended defence, the new p.o.c. from Link and my witness statement up to now..... would really appreciate some feedback on my witness statement and what I do with these copy of documents... thanx. Pudst x x x x

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Ladies and Gents

 

Today I received the following letter from MBNA in the post

 

Thank you for your letter dated 14th Jan 2009

 

It is our ounderstanding that only a Judge can decide if an agreement is unforceable. We would like to clarify our position in this regard. If a lender did fail to comply with S78, that lender may be prevented from taking certain steps to enforce a credit agreement (until such time as S.78 was satisfied) - but the underlying credit agreement itself, together with the borrowers obligation to repay, would remain vaild and intact. For the avoidance of any doubt we would like to confirm that MBNA has provided all thew necessary information under S.78 and in any event, your credit agreement has remained valid and your obligation to repay in tact. As such, any sums outstanding on your account are still owing and due and until these sums are repaid, this information will continue to register at the credit reference agencies.

 

MBNA is not able to stop processing your personal information. Part of the terms and conditions of the credit card account held by you state that MBNA will use credit reference information to manage your account and that MBNA report account information to those credit reference agencies. Under the Data Protection Act, MBNA must report accurate and up to date information at all times. As you have used the card and incurred a debt this will be reported with the credit reference agencies, as will any breach of contract by failure to meet your monthly payments.

 

I trust this clarifies our position and we will continue to contact you for payments if the account is in arrear.

 

  1. They never supplied me with a true copy of my CCA (Had account 15+ yrs) with my signature on it. I even requested it twice.
  2. Just sent me current terms and conditions.
  3. The only responded when I sent second letter (I do not acknowledge and det to your company)

Can anyone help me with the next steps cause as I understand it if they can't provide me with a true copy with my signature on it the can't enforce it, but I'd just like to be clear as I can see the next step being welcome to court.

 

Many many thanks

 

Scrapper :cool:

 


"I just want to make people silky-smooth!"

 

Scrapper vs MBNA Partial Settlement Success. Saved £13,000 :lol:

Scrapper vs Barclays Bank Plc PPI Reclaim Success £5,500 :lol:

Scrapper vs Barclaycard Partial Settlement Success. Saved £6,000 :lol:

 

Scrapper vs Tesco's FOS upheld complaint. Possible court action to get default removed

 

Scrapper vs Egg (Barclaycard) Awaiting FOS

 

Scrapper vs Barclays Bank Plc Offered made & Refused. This means war :-x

Scrapper vs Barclaycard (Cabot) Waiting 4 years for CCA. Cabot advised irresolvable :lol:

 

Scrapper vs Intelligent Finance. Success

 

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Advice & opinions given by Scrapper are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

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Hi Scrapper, I am not sure of the exact wording of the act (I'll try a Google search) but in laymans terms the act states that if the lender fails to comply with S.78 then they:

 

  • may not demand any payment on the account, nor is the alleged debtor obliged to offer any payment to them
  • may not add further interest or charges to the account
  • may not pass the account to a third party
  • may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency
  • may not issue a default notice related to the account

which continues to apply until the lender is able to produce a properly executed agreement or the agreement is enforced by a court.

 

MBNA don't seem to realise that processing personal information and the alleged debt are only valid whilst the agreement is legally valid and that failure to comply with S.78 means that it is not enforceable until as such time as it made enforceable and therefore their rights under that agreement cannot be asserted until that time.

 

I think the bit about only a judging finding an agreement unenforceable is crucially the opposite of the what the law states. Only a judge may find a agreement enforceable if it does not comply with the act. So the fact it does not comply and you have requested a properly executed copy means that it is now unenforceable and the above rules apply until such time that they produce a properly executed copy or take you to court to get it enforced.

 

In other words, MBNA must cease doing anything related to the account until they produce the goods or a court agrees with them within the strict rules that it is permitted to do so.

 

Just my few pence worth!

FBR

I wonder if MBNA are the new Enron :roll:

 

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Hi all

 

had a letter from lovely, cuddly Cabot today

 

Not heard from them before and this letter states:

 

"Your Cabot account is overdue

 

Weve recently obtained confirmation that you live at the above address. Your account is overdue and we need to talk to you as soon as possible"

 

 

"Call us on..........................and speak to one of our helpful customer advisors....."

 

It of course gives a Cabott reference of:

 

76534658CabotdoyouthinkIdbethatstupidtoputithere

 

 

 

 

Is this just a fishing exercise, as no Original Creditor is given (or balance)

 

What can I expect next following my obvious reaction of "file and forget"

 

?

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Hi Scrapper, I am not sure of the exact wording of the act (I'll try a Google search) but in laymans terms the act states that if the lender fails to comply with S.78 then they:

 

  • may not demand any payment on the account, nor is the alleged debtor obliged to offer any payment to them
  • may not add further interest or charges to the account
  • may not pass the account to a third party
  • may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency
  • may not issue a default notice related to the account

which continues to apply until the lender is able to produce a properly executed agreement or the agreement is enforced by a court.

 

MBNA don't seem to realise that processing personal information and the alleged debt are only valid whilst the agreement is legally valid and that failure to comply with S.78 means that it is not enforceable until as such time as it made enforceable and therefore their rights under that agreement cannot be asserted until that time.

 

I think the bit about only a judging finding an agreement unenforceable is crucially the opposite of the what the law states. Only a judge may find a agreement enforceable if it does not comply with the act. So the fact it does not comply and you have requested a properly executed copy means that it is now unenforceable and the above rules apply until such time that they produce a properly executed copy or take you to court to get it enforced.

 

In other words, MBNA must cease doing anything related to the account until they produce the goods or a court agrees with them within the strict rules that it is permitted to do so.

 

Just my few pence worth!

FBR

 

Hi

 

I don't think this is strictly correct IMHO. What it actually says is it becomes unenforceable, there is no mention of what they can and can't do. What we take it to mean is as above, but really all we can say it certainly means is that they can't take it to court/get a judge to enforce it.

 

I only mention it because I was looking all over the place for where it actually stated the above as all the letters I was receiving were saying it wasn't true. I asked on here, and essentially learnt what I've written.

 

Failure to comply with S78 does not necessarily mean they don't have the document. It is possible that it is in the deepest darkest recesses of their storage facilities and in order to keep within the timescale they just send out something that complies with the Act. There is a big difference between them not complying and the agreement being unenforceable. One does not necessarily mean the other.

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Not certain, but isn't this part of the OFT guidelines on debt collection?

  • may not demand any payment on the account, nor is the alleged debtor obliged to offer any payment to them
  • may not add further interest or charges to the account
  • may not pass the account to a third party
  • may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency
  • may not issue a default notice related to the account

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Hey Underdog:)

 

That's what I thought but I couldn't find it, and when I asked directly no-one else came up with the part of any of the relevant Acts where it is stated. And even if it is in the guidlelines, as they are just that, guidelines, it wouldn't be 'may not' it would be 'should not'. Plus the banks don't have to take any notice of them as they're not law.

 

That's my point though, I don't think it does state those things anywhere as an actual legal fact that we can fall back on and quote to them. If anyone can correct me and show me the legislation though please do, it'd be dead handy!!:)

 

Having said all that I do still stick it in my letters as it seems to wind them up no end:D

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Cap1 & CCA return
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