Cap1 & CCA return

[noomill060]

No reply from Varley, but his grovelling minions responded VERY, VERY quickly.

 

Ok they responded with drivel, but at least I got a reponse.

 

I just started to copy John Varley [email protected] in on each email I sent to his muppets.

 

 

Barclays email addys are just

 

 

[email protected]

[patrickq1]

patrick- Im in a similar position, credit card co defaulted me for amount 2/3rds of which is penalty charges and interest.

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d and CCA'd them, turns out the agreement isnt actually enforceable due to Prescribed Terms being incorrect and s.127(3), but they beleive the default notice and processing to CRAs is quite legal and lawful due to their T&Cs.

 

(No doubt in the same way as they believe that penalty charges are also lawful.)

would like to ask peter

if this is still relevant concerning the bankers

i remember back to the 70s when you had to get a bank refferance for any type of business you where thinking of doing ie you used to have the bank make enquiries and also ask for bank references ,but in the 80s all this changed to reference agencies..so when did the BANKERS OBLIGATION NOT TO DISCLOSE unless it was through a sequestrator or police ? just a thought,you will find this section under NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENTS

just thought you might know or be able to shed light on this and also with the banks including this right to confer with others your details surely this alone renders any contract voidable or void hope you can research this

patrickq1

[Peterbard]

Hi Patrick

Sorry to take so long getting back to you.

I am no expert on the Data Protection Act 1998 but i believe that the creditors are allowed to share data as long as you consent .Most agreements have a clause in ther T and Cs to that effect.

 

The consensus is that this consent should expire when the agreement does and therefore so should any processing of the data.

 

As far as i know the statute you mention is still in force but is overiden by the consent you give when you sign.

I am prepared to be contradicted.

 

Best regards

Peter

[noomill060]

I wonder if this consent remains in force if the agreement is unenforceable due to being improperly executed and Key Financial Information being incorrect.

[un1boy]

I wonder if this consent remains in force if the agreement is unenforceable due to being improperly executed and Key Financial Information being incorrect.

 

We've been over this one time and time again, personally I think that if the agreement is not enforcable (for what ever reason) then they should not process your data.

 

I have issued an N1 about this already.

[Fred_Funk]

Sorry to intervene, again, but if any of you guys could take a look at the following thread...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/79616-fred_funk-hillesden-sec-ltd.html

 

... I'd be most appreciative.

 

Thanks in anticipation

Fred_Funk

[Peterbard]

We've been over this one time and time again, personally I think that if the agreement is not enforcable (for what ever reason) then they should not process your data.

 

I have issued an N1 about this already.

 

Hi

I am with uni on this i think it is the only logical reply.

 

Refards

Peter

[monopoly23]

 

Refards

Peter

 

Refards? LOL sorry Peter, I just couldn't help myself!

[Peterbard]

Refards? LOL sorry Peter, I just couldn't help myself! :grin:

Hi

 

Oh yes you could you just didn't want to.

 

Best fishes

 

Peter

[monopoly23]

lol nice one

[patrickq1]

Refards? LOL sorry Peter, I just couldn't help myself! :grin:

Hi

 

Oh yes you could you just didn't want to.

 

Best fishes

 

Peter

hi peter appreciate your reply thanks

does anyone have a copy of section 82 of the 1974 act cause this is what the bank is relying on from a deed of assignment

or so i thought thats what it was until i have looked at it now and it says its swb1019 revised december 1989 guarantee sterling and currencey it dose nt actually metion deed of assignment also its ltd to 20,000 but they drifted to 21,800 on the bank statements at the time

so this is actually a guarantee sterling and currenceyby an individual or ltd co so what the hell have i signed up to ? they have not been in touch since oct 1993 since they are relying on this also in oct 1993 i challenged them to take me to court or forget it cause i wanted this case heard before a judge at the time ,bearing in mind i have a written libel letter here sent by the bank fax machine during the operation of the contract also they were frustrating the contract and my business at the same time

hope someone has some knowledge

patrickq1

[shane5408]

hi peter appreciate your reply thanks

does anyone have a copy of section 82 of the 1974 act cause this is what the bank is relying on from a deed of assignment

or so i thought thats what it was until i have looked at it now and it says its swb1019 revised december 1989 guarantee sterling and currencey it dose nt actually metion deed of assignment also its ltd to 20,000 but they drifted to 21,800 on the bank statements at the time

so this is actually a guarantee sterling and currenceyby an individual or ltd co so what the hell have i signed up to ? they have not been in touch since oct 1993 since they are relying on this also in oct 1993 i challenged them to take me to court or forget it cause i wanted this case heard before a judge at the time ,bearing in mind i have a written libel letter here sent by the bank fax machine during the operation of the contract also they were frustrating the contract and my business at the same time

hope someone has some knowledge

patrickq1

 

 

hi patrick,

 

have a look at this website http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/Home.aspx

very useful, contains most major uk statue laws and instruments.

[davefirewalker]

here you go....

 

82 Variation of agreements

 

(1) Where, under a power contained in a regulated agreement, the creditor or owner varies the agreement, the variation shall not take effect before notice of it is given to the debtor or hirer in the prescribed manner.

 

(2) Where an agreement (a “modifying agreement”) varies or supplements an earlier agreement, the modifying agreement shall for the purposes of this Act be treated as—

 

(a) revoking the earlier agreement, and

 

(b) containing provisions reproducing the combined effect of the two agreements,

 

 

and obligations outstanding in relation to the earlier agreement shall accordingly be treated as outstanding instead in relation to the modifying agreement.

 

(3) If the earlier agreement is a regulated agreement but (apart from this subsection) the modifying agreement is not then, unless the modifying agreement is for running account credit, it shall be treated as a regulated agreement.

 

(4) If the earlier agreement is a regulated agreement for running-account credit, and by the modifying agreement the creditor allows the credit limit to be exceeded but intends the excess to be merely temporary, Part V (except section 56) shall not apply to the modifying agreement.

 

(5) If—

 

(a) the earlier agreement is a cancellable agreement, and

 

(b) the modifying agreement is made within the period applicable under section 68 to the earlier agreement,

 

 

then, whether or not the modifying agreement would, apart from this subsection, be a cancellable agreement, it shall be treated as a cancellable agreement in respect of which a notice may be served under section 68 not later than the end of the period applicable under that section to the earlier agreement.

 

(6) Except under subsection (5), a modifying agreement shall not be treated as a cancellable agreement.

 

(7) This section does not apply to a non-commercial agreement.

 

 

however I would refer them to ...

 

General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

 

3.-(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall be a true copy thereof.

 

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

© in the case of any copy of an unexecuted agreement delivered or sent to the debtor or hirer under section 62 of the Act, the name and address of the debtor or hirer; and

(d) in the case of any copy given to the debtor under section 77(1) of the .

Act of an executed agreement for fixed-sum credit under which a person takes any article in pawn, any description of the article taken in pawn.

 

 

Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

 

7.--(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either-

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been

 

 

Have they given you uptodate t&c or the ones from when you took out the agreement?

 

if the former...they havent complied

 

rgds

 

Dave

[davefirewalker]

hi peter appreciate your reply thanks

does anyone have a copy of section 82 of the 1974 act cause this is what the bank is relying on from a deed of assignment

or so i thought thats what it was until i have looked at it now and it says its swb1019 revised december 1989 guarantee sterling and currencey it dose nt actually metion deed of assignment also its ltd to 20,000 but they drifted to 21,800 on the bank statements at the time

so this is actually a guarantee sterling and currenceyby an individual or ltd co so what the hell have i signed up to ? they have not been in touch since oct 1993 since they are relying on this also in oct 1993 i challenged them to take me to court or forget it cause i wanted this case heard before a judge at the time ,bearing in mind i have a written libel letter here sent by the bank fax machine during the operation of the contract also they were frustrating the contract and my business at the same time

hope someone has some knowledge

patrickq1

 

I would also have thought that it would be time limited

 

if they have had no contact since 1993 then I would have thought that the statute of limitations would apply? they have 6 years to chase a debt. unless it has been the subject of a ccj

 

rgds

 

Dave

[patrickq1]

I would also have thought that it would be time limited

 

if they have had no contact since 1993 then I would have thought that the statute of limitations would apply? they have 6 years to chase a debt. unless it has been the subject of a ccj

 

rgds

 

Dave

the agreement has not been updated nor amended cept to say they bounced three cheques whilst the account was in credit charged over 2000 pounds in intrest charges and sent me a libelous letter/fax from the bank rung my suppliers and basicly put me out of busines i had no choice but to bankrupt the company last i heard from them was 1992...........after all that i issued them with a notice giving them ten days in which i asked that they proceed with their court action if they wanted any monies for i was not prepared to discuss it farther until it was in court...ps before i forget my solicitor who was furnishing them with information weeks before i was privy to it was struck of and by the way most of my suppliers were in spain italy and some transport companies ..but efectively they deliberately put me out of busines ...i cannot act on any of this yet until i have undergone a few major operations and i get stressed every day thinking about this case its like a noose round my neck knowing they still have this deed on my property ..but after my operations i intend going for it

but thanks a lot dave i will now study the data you have posted

patrickq1

[maybelline]

you cant just change the date of a default entry when it has been on for nearly six years while in dispute, no notice of default rec'd, alleged agreement is unenforceable!???????????????? can you, experian have just done so????????????????????????????????????????????and moved it up two years?

 

sorry have posted in the defaults thread

[credit allergy]

HSBC are through Buchanan and Wells are struggling to find CCA for CREDIT card. However there is a 2005 CCJ in my absence as I was being repossesed at the time. Does anybody know how throrough the county Court checks the CCA on a claim form. I feel it it worth trying to get the CCJ revoked. CREDIT ALLERGY

[elizabeth1]

HSBC are through Buchanan and Wells are struggling to find CCA for CREDIT card. However there is a 2005 CCJ in my absence as I was being repossesed at the time. Does anybody know how throrough the county Court checks the CCA on a claim form. I feel it it worth trying to get the CCJ revoked. CREDIT ALLERGY

 

I am sure the court wouldn't have checked the CCA unless you had made it part of your defence and raised any issues.

[JonCris]

Elizabeth is correct

 

You have to present the argument to court

However if the debtor has never defended nor addmitted the debt formaly they may be successful in applying to have the CCJ set aside

[Jeff2000]

Hi,

 

 

Yes! It's got to worth a go at getting the CCJ set aside!

 

You have nothing to lose! (Well, apart from the application fee!)

 

 

Regards, Jeff.

[conar686]

Noomill asked

I wonder if this consent remains in force if the agreement is unenforceable due to being improperly executed and Key Financial Information being incorrect.

 

I'm having this bun fight with 2 catologues who admit they can't produce signed CCAs requesting they remove all data. Their response so far - as I ordered goods from them I gave my consent as per their T&Cs, on chkg I found that this is only true with internal/subsidary organisations not external organisations.

 

I've written & called ICO they will investigate & get back to me

 

In the case of credit cards my view is that as soon as you apply you are tacitly agreeing to them processing your data as they must go to other orgs to investigate your credit worthiness.

[maybelline]

I too have cases now with the ICO on processing data, this is because the agreement were not produced, the data was unsubstantiated and therefore, was processing inaccurate information causing distress, without an agreement or an agreement that contains the wrong amounts because the interest has been done wrong etc, and so how can they know that it would follow that a default should be recorded had it been done correctly with correct amounts and lawful charges, to my mind this could produce a completely different picture, folk that have defaults on the back of dreadful agreements such as my self are challenging this matter, good luck with your claim.

[hellhasnofury]

Hello,

 

Sorry a bit of track, something has been bothering me, regarding loan agreements and mis-sold ppi.

 

Is there some issue with the credit agreement in relation to the total charge for credit when they have added the ppi and again charged interest for this.

 

I am asking this because I have noticed reading around the threads, there seems to be a total lack of non-compliance re cca request from the Natwest/rbos. They are stating that they cannot locate them. This seems to be for loans taken out around 2001-2004.

 

I suspect something fishy is going on with them, and would really like to open the can of worms:-D

 

Any opinions:?

[shane5408]

Hello,

 

Sorry a bit of track, something has been bothering me, regarding loan agreements and mis-sold ppi.

 

Is there some issue with the credit agreement in relation to the total charge for credit when they have added the ppi and again charged interest for this.

 

I am asking this because I have noticed reading around the threads, there seems to be a total lack of non-compliance re cca request from the NatWest/rbos. They are stating that they cannot locate them. This seems to be for loans taken out around 2001-2004.

 

I suspect something fishy is going on with them, and would really like to open the can of worms:-D

 

Any opinions:?

 

 

really! I took out a loan with natwest in april 2003, I'll send a SAR and CCA and see what comes back

[Peterbard]

HI

 

PPi if it is optional should be added to the total credit unless paid in cash there should be sepperate details of inteest (unless interest is beingcharged at the same rate as your loan)and apr as well a a joint apr and a total repayment. If issued after October 2004 there should be two signatures on the agreement one for the loan and one for the PPI.

If the PPi is conditional to the loan it should not apeaer in the amount of credit at all and if it did would render the agreement unenforceable as the amount of credit would be incorrect.

It should appear together with iterest in the total charge for credit and be therefor included inthe APR calculation.

 

When deciding wherther the ppi was optional or not consider

Was a better rate or inducement offered if i took out the ppi this would make it not optional

 

 

Best regards

Peter