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    • Couldn't agree more, really wanted a true ruling on this just for the knowledge but pretty sure the Judge made some decisions today that he didn't need to?.. maybe they all go this way on the day? We hear back so few post court dates I'm not sure. Each Judge has some level of discretion. Their sol was another Junior not even working at their Firm, so couldn't speak directly for them! that was fortunate I think because if she would have rejected in court better, she might have  been able to force ruling, we are at that point!, everybody there!!, Judge basically said openly that he can see everything for Judgement!!!  but she just said "I can speak to the claimant and find out!" - creating the opportunity for me to accept. I really think the Judge did me a favor today by saying it without saying it. Knowing the rep for the sol couldn't really speak to the idea in the moment. Been to court twice in a fortnight, on both occasions heard 4 times with others and both of my claims, the clerk mention to one or both parties "Letting the Judge know if you want to have a quick chat with each other"! So, it appears there's an expectation of the court that there is one last attempt at settling before going through the door. So, not a Sol tactic, just Court process!. Judge was not happy we hadn't tried to settle outside! We couldn't because she went to the loo and the Judge called us in 10 minutes early! - another reason to stand down to allow that conv to happen. Stars aligned there for me I think. But yeh, if the sol themselves, or someone who can make decisions on the case were in court, I would have received a Judgement against today I think. She was an 'advocate'.. if I recall her intro to me correctly.. So verbal arguments can throw spanners in Court because Plinks dogs outsource their work and send a Junior advocate.
    • that was a good saving on an £8k debt dx
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Hello Pam...I am claiming my charges back, and (guess what)..PPI as well:))) but i had paid it in full and closed so i couldn't spend more on the card-selfprotection:)))

xxxx

 

Hi itsme,

 

Just so you know, they don't have to comply with a sec 78 request if the account is closed - although, I would have thought that they would have to provide the agreement as part of a CPA request! :)

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

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My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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Hello Pam...I am claiming my charges back, and (guess what)..PPI as well:))) but i had paid it in full and closed so i couldn't spend more on the card-selfprotection:)))

xxxx

Hi

 

If it's charges you are claiming then you don't need the copy agreement for those, you need the statements and will probably have to SAR them.

 

For PPI, you do need to see if you ticked a box on the agreement for it, or if any details of PPI are entered on it. If they cannot supply a legible copy of the agreement/application form then how can they prove that you agreed to PPI?

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

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You are right

 

But, not according to TS!!

 

They are shameful - my caseworker said that he would ask the lender IF they had to supply certain docs and because they said no, he has accepted that!

 

Also, my request was made in August 2006 to which they sent me an agreement with no prescribed terms only, no T&C's etc. The TS worker has asked them to supply the T&C's now and told me that I can go into any branch to get them!!!!

 

He has also said that becausae i didn't specifically ask for a statement of account, they don't have to provide one (I did ask for one, and I also said that this is a full request under sec 78)

 

What tha fa?

 

Trading Standards are a joke.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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There will be a big bang there's no doubt about it.The way that I see it the fuse has already been lit.If you go back into history there is the infamous "peasents revolt" what we are getting now is the "consumers revolt"

 

 

I take real offence to being called a revolting consumer.

 

:lol:

Struggling_Simon vs Cabot - WON

Struggling_Simon vs Abbey - WON

Struggling_Simon vs HBOS - Pending

--------------------------------------------

IF I HAVE HELPED PLEASE CLICK MY SCALES

 

Vigilantibus non dormientibus æquitas subvenit

Somper in excretia,som solem profundus variat.

 

 

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi

 

Yes you are right - the prescribed terms must also be correct (as must any other financial terms) but APR is not a 'prescribed term'. Also it is very complicated to work out and I wouldn't have a clue how to tell whether a quoted figure is correct or not.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi Pam, is quite right of course the APR is not a prescribed term although if they have quoted you an incorect one i think you can claim unenforceability under Section 127 (1)

 

(i) prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it;

 

In other words you baught the product under a missleading quotation of apr i think the same can be made to aply if their is no apr quoted.

I am fairly sure of my ground on the last bit but would appretiate some other input.

 

Regards

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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Hi

 

If it's charges you are claiming then you don't need the copy agreement for those, you need the statements and will probably have to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them.

 

For PPI, you do need to see if you ticked a box on the agreement for it, or if any details of PPI are entered on it. If they cannot supply a legible copy of the agreement/application form then how can they prove that you agreed to PPI?

 

Regards, Pam

Hi Pam, thank you again...as always:)))

The only reason why i need that copy of the agreement is to prove that the PPi was mis-sold if it gets to the court..same story...different company...in store they did tell me same things(when i filled the application)- ticking the protection box on the application will speed up and help with the application...so i did tick it....now they are more than happy to refund the charges(not all of them and not CI) but not the PPI....I am arguing that i never received an agreement, a bit worried on the subject that in some cases the application can be an agreement...i can hardly read the copy provided, if i scan it or photocopy it....it became unreadeble at all with 20/20 vision:)))))))))))

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Maria

Carphone Warehouse WON £195.00

Welcome Finance in Court. N244 accepted.

Barclaycard WON with contractual, PPI and charges for time spent and letters sent

Halifax solo, switch, Credit Classic, Halifax one Itsme Vs Halifax 2 accounts

Creation Finance Prelim received offer of £79.88.... Itsme VS Creation Finance

Vodafone overcharged Vodafon.. anything that could be done?

 

U know where the scales r:)))))

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Hi Pam, thank you again...as always:)))

The only reason why i need that copy of the agreement is to prove that the PPi was mis-sold if it gets to the court..same story...different company...in store they did tell me same things(when i filled the application)- ticking the protection box on the application will speed up and help with the application...so i did tick it....now they are more than happy to refund the charges(not all of them and not CI) but not the PPI....I am arguing that i never received an agreement, a bit worried on the subject that in some cases the application can be an agreement...i can hardly read the copy provided, if i scan it or photocopy it....it became unreadeble at all with 20/20 vision:)))))))))))

 

 

Regards,

 

 

Maria

 

 

Maria, don't worry, an application cannot class as an agreement!

 

Also, if the one they sent you cannot be read then it is not enforcable!

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

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un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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Hi Pam, is quite right of course the APR is not a prescribed term although if they have quoted you an incorect one i think you can claim unenforceability under Section 127 (1)

 

(i) prejudice caused to any person by the contravention in question, and the degree of culpability for it;

 

In other words you baught the product under a missleading quotation of apr i think the same can be made to aply if their is no apr quoted.

I am fairly sure of my ground on the last bit but would appretiate some other input.

 

Regards

Peter

 

Hi

 

You could not claim that the agreement was unenforceable, only 'improperly executed'. The judge would then have to look at what prejudice was caused as a result of the error.

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Maria, don't worry, an application cannot class as an agreement!

 

Also, if the one they sent you cannot be read then it is not enforcable!

 

Hi

 

S127(3) CCA

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

So ANY document that contains all of the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor(doesn't mention creditor's sig.!) could be enforceable.

 

But you are right about the legibility. The creditor has not properly complied with his obligations under s77/78 if the document is not 'easily legible'.

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Hiya - got another CCA back from HFC this time. Could you folks have a browse please. I am still unsure whether it's ok or not. It seems to be just the application rather than the aggreement itself? D

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/57846-debt-written-off-due-4.html

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Hi

 

S127(3) CCA

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

So ANY document that contains all of the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor(doesn't mention creditor's sig.!) could be enforceable.

 

But you are right about the legibility. The creditor has not properly complied with his obligations under s77/78 if the document is not 'easily legible'.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Ah right, my bad!

 

I thought Peter had a letter from the DTI stating explicityly that a application could not be classed as an agreement though?

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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Ah right, my bad!

 

I thought Peter had a letter from the DTI stating explicityly that a application could not be classed as an agreement though?

 

Hi

 

I certainly did i have posted it several times it says " a court would never accept an aplication as an agreement".

 

But thats just the DTI This is Pam so now i am in two minds :rolleyes:

 

 

Regs Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi

 

I can't remember if he has or not but the OFT doc 2003 on cancellable agreements has this paragraph in the section relating to copies that must be given when an agreement is first entered into:

 

The general requirement for copy documents is that one copy of the agreement (including, if applicable, a notice of cancellation rights) must be given or sent to the customer when the original agreement is given or sent to him for signature. A first copy is not required where the agreement is neither presented personally nor sent to the customer for signature – for example, a document which is also an application form that a prospective customer picks up from a shop counter or from a leaflet dispenser.

 

So I just urge caution in assuming that an application form cannot be an agreement! :confused:

 

Regards, Pam

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

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But thats just the DTI This is Pam so now i am in two minds :rolleyes:

 

 

 

You looking for a fight?? :D:D:lol::lol:

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Hi

 

S127(3) CCA

 

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

So ANY document that contains all of the prescribed terms and is signed by the debtor(doesn't mention creditor's sig.!) could be enforceable.

 

But you are right about the legibility. The creditor has not properly complied with his obligations under s77/78 if the document is not 'easily legible'.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Hi Pam

I think you underlined the wrong bit so i corrected it for you you see it is called signing of agrements not signing of application forms.

 

Regards

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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HI

 

No

Cowardice runs in our familly.

 

Regards

Petr

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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Hi

 

You could not claim that the agreement was unenforceable, only 'improperly executed'. The judge would then have to look at what prejudice was caused as a result of the error.

 

Regards, Pam

 

Oh Pammmmm

 

The court could dismiss an enforcement order then it's the same thing.

You sure you don't want to go back to the other thread:)

 

By the way do tou remember the Monty Python song i think it went,

 

Pam,pam,Pam,Pam...Pam,Pam,Pam,Pam. or something like that

 

Regs

Petr

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

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Apr has to be calculated from something. usually a base rate something like

"fantastic loan" @10% (APR 12.5%) etc...or have I got it wrong again :-)

I have an agreement where both are visible mind you the rate may be variable which could explain it

 

dave

 

Hi Dave

 

Hi

A loan of 1% per month gives an apr of 12.68%

 

The ellements for calculating the APR are:

Present Amount (the sum borrowed)

Amount of a single repayment

Elapsed time since the start of the loan at which this repayment is made.

 

Amount loaned= installment/(1+APR)Raised to the power of the interval between talking the loan out and that particular payment.i e1/12 for the first month 2/12 for the second month etc

(You then add up all the individual equasions to give you your amount financed)

Simple

 

Heh Heh

Peter

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi Dave

 

Hi

A loan of 1% per month gives an apr of 12.68%

 

The ellements for calculating the APR are:

 

Present Amount (the sum borrowed)

Amount of a single repayment

Elapsed time since the start of the loan at which this repayment is made.

 

Amount loaned= installment/(1+APR)Raised to the power of the interval between talking the loan out and that particular payment.i e1/12 for the first month 2/12 for the second month etc

(You then add up all the individual equasions to give you your amount financed)

Simple

 

Heh Heh

Peter

Peter

 

Wow Peter, I didn't know you could speak Japanese! ;)

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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"Wow Peter, I didn't know you could speak Japanese! :wink:"

 

Hi

Alternatively you could just google the APR calculator

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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By the way do tou remember the Monty Python song i think it went,

 

Pam,pam,Pam,Pam...Pam,Pam,Pam,Pam. or something like that

 

Regs

Petr

 

Your spelling never has been very good has it Peter? :D

 

That reminds me, I haven't had any for years - must get some, nice fried in batter with chips!! :grin:

 

Oh yes! that thread - the one where we CAN have an occasional joke!! :rolleyes:

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

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Peter

you are in fine form today.......

 

:-)

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Don't encourage him!!! :eek::p:D

VITAL - IF YOU HAVE AN ISSUE ABOUT THE INCREASED BAILIFFS' POWERS TO BREAK INTO YOUR HOME AND USE FORCE IN ORDER TO GET YOUR GOODS THEN JOIN THE PETITION HERE:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.c o....l#post53879 9

 

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Peter

you are in fine form today.......

 

:-)

 

Dave

 

I know, I had noticed that as well! :)

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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