Cap1 & CCA return

[un1boy]

God I am so shocked - does that apply to agreements covered under the CCA and what is the point of that?

[maybelline]

apparently, in taking a secured loan they have applied something called MIG??

[Smoothy]

God I am so shocked - does that apply to agreements covered under the CCA and what is the point of that?

 

Well..with my agreement with welcome that was signed on Yes car credits premises, there is no cooling off period or right to cancel unless x amount is paid under the agreement. That meant i was tied for at least a year before i could even consider cancelling it!!

[Peterbard]

And if thats the case, what about high pressure car sales such as the former 'Yes Car Credit' where you were bombarded with their sales pitch untill you signed. A lot of people have been pressurized into signing an agreement. Does this mean they have no cooling off period?

It did when I asked about it!!

 

 

You can drive a car away immediately from one of these places do you think they would let you do that if you had a cooling off period on your finance.

It applies to all agrements regulated by the cca 1974

I seem to have caused a bit of a stirr .

It's all there in the act

Honest

 

Regs

Peter

[un1boy]

Oh Peter, I believe you don't worry about that. I am gobsmacked though.

 

And that include credit cards etc? Do you have any idea as to what benefit it has/why that is the case?

 

Also, can you point me to the right place in the act (not that I don't believe you, just want it for future reference)....

[Peterbard]

Yes Uni

 

I thought i had mentioned it section 67 i think sub-section b or c

 

Peter

[un1boy]

Yes Uni

 

I thought i had mentioned it section 67 i think sub-section b or c

 

Peter

 

Cheers fella!

[tamadus]

67 Cancellable agreements

A regulated agreement may be cancelled by the debtor or hirer in accordance with this Part if the antecedent negotiations included oral representations made when in the presence of the debtor or hirer by an individual acting as, or on behalf of, the negotiator, unless—

(a) the agreement is secured on land, or is a restricted-use credit agreement to finance the purchase of land or is an agreement for a bridging loan in connection with the purchase of land, or

(b) the unexecuted agreement is signed by the debtor or hirer at premises at which any of the following is carrying on any business (whether on a permanent or temporary basis)—

(i) the creditor or owner;

(ii) any party to a linked transaction (other than the debtor or hirer or a relative of his);

(iii) the negotiator in any antecedent negotiations.

cooling off period doesnt apply if you sign the agreement on trade premises.

[Smoothy]

And that include credit cards etc? Do you have any idea as to what benefit it has/why that is the case?

 

 

I think its because under the conditions of CCA licence, they are expected to tell you the importance of the agreement you are signing. That way there is no comeback on them if you sign and then claim you werent told of something that could void the agreement like....no cooling off period!!!

In reality, they place the onus on the customer to have understood what they are doing even if they havnt verbally warned you off the pitfalls. Cause at the end of the day, its your word against a salesman.

Only my musings....dont take it as fact!!

 

Smoothy

[maybelline]

how about the 'reasonableness test' utccr 1977, the strength of the bargaining positions of the parties relative to each other' and so on - does this refer to how pressured a person is sign an agreement? I know this would be argued against and I am a total novice so could be barking up the wrong tree completely!

[Guest The Terminator]

67 Cancellable agreements

 

cooling off period doesnt apply if you sign the agreement on trade premises.

 

Just wondering if that would be compatible with the Human Rights Act.

[tamadus]

hi folks, just popped in to let you know I have been quiet the last few days thanks to a major Windows crash but everything is running smooth again now

 

Also been catching up on some of my own claims, details to be posted soon.

 

Heading to bed for an early night as I have an appointment at my local court over an attempt to repossess my ex wifes house in the morning. Its been beaten off but the mortgage companies maths stink so we are going to make a formal claim for small charges and to correct the record.

 

Wish me luck and let you know how it goes

[Fullyskinted]

Sounds like you should be in bed already mate!

 

Good luck

[elizabeth1]

Good Luck!!!!

[zubo]

Tamadus

 

Please note we are not disputing if any repayment obligation exists, only their legal status to enforce repayment of charges and interest.

I that is the point I am looking for clarification on.

 

Various posts have suggested that if there is no agreement then there is no debt. Although it would be nice to believe that - I think that is incorrect. I agree with you - the lack of a properly executed agreement means it is unenforceable and that you are in a position to recover charges and interest.

 

However, if there is no agreement which can be enforced or cancelled or defaulted then how can the creditor recover the debt? As I see it there is no legal mechanism to achieve that. So the debt appears to be in a state of limbo - not acknowledged by you.

 

In a seperate case you helped me with, the DCA/Solicitor had to acknowledge they were unable to supply the agreement and had been instructed to close all three accounts. I think what they are saying is that they cannot enforce repayment of the debt. Having considered there decision I think there is one further step required: I will need to write to them for confirmation that the client is closing all three accounts at a nil balance. Furthermore, whilst I considered leaving matters as concluded in my post, I am now of the opinion that I will S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them and hit them with a claim to recover every penny I paid them for the last 6 years.

 

I am having problems trying to determine the same CCA route for credit card agreements. Can you recover the payments you made outside of the interest and charges? I think not - but you should be able to recover that huge interest and charges....

 

This is a huge post - apologies - one final question - just like Jones I constantly need assurance...

 

When I get home this weekend, if Amex have not sent me my agreement then they are in clear violation of the Act. They have responded to my SAR.

Can I then say - you are committing an offence and not supplied the agreement within the prescribed timescales - there is no debt which you can enforce?

Can they then send me the agreement (I cannot believe they dont have it) and say - there you go - now you must pay?

In other words despite the timescales if the agreement exists can it then be enforced?

 

Thanks

 

tired ... time for bed....

[Acerfan]

Hi

could someone take a look at my thread Suspect I have no loan agrrement please? Am not sure whether to visit the branch or not

 

Cheers all

[maybelline]

a deadline for provision of a true copy executed agreement (not sure what executed means) that it is signed perhaps, has come and gone today, so assume means this is uneforceable, is there a template for requesting confirmation or is it limbo as suggested above?

[maybelline]

good luck tamadus.

[un1boy]

a deadline for provision of a true copy executed agreement (not sure what executed means) that it is signed perhaps, has come and gone today, so assume means this is uneforceable, is there a template for requesting confirmation or is it limbo as suggested above?

 

Executed means that it satisfies the requirements of sec 61 in that it has signatures by you and the lender, it is dated, has all the terms and conditions and so on.

 

If they haven't provided the documents after 12 workin days and one calendar month then they have commited an offence and the agreement is unenforcable. This may mean that the debt still exists though, but the current agreement in terms of ammounts and frequency of payments does not.....it also means that the terms and conditions are unenforcable and so they should remove your details from the CRA'S!

 

Try sending this letter, amend for your own circumstnaces:

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: − Account Reference XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

I wrote to you on XX/XX/XXXX via recorded deliver no XXXXXXXXXX.

This was received by your office on XX/XX/XXXX. I requested a copy of the executed agreement and relevant documentation pertaining to the above agreement covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 amended.

 

 

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

 

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

 

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

 

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

 

© the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

 

To date, I have only received a photocopy of the front of the agreement in question together with a photocopy of the dealerships warranty. This does not constitute an executed agreement in accordance with the act.

 

I understand that if you are unable to supply the documents requested after 12 days, then you will be deemed to have defaulted under CCA. If this default remains for a further month, then a criminal offence may have been committed.

 

As you have not provided the information requested in accordance with CCA 1974 amended, this contract is unenforceable without court intervention.

 

I believe that XXXXXXXXX may have committed a criminal offence under the terms of the Consumer Credit Act, and non compliance with the original request is therefore a complete defence to any court claim

(*Letter courtesy of Smoothy!)

[maybelline]

apparently, in taking a secured loan they have applied something called MIG??

 

can anyone explain MIG and what it is as I want to challenge this urgently - I have learnt that it is a kind of insurance to cover the lender if your house is repossessed and it does not have enough equity for them to get their money BUT why would this be needed OR is is compulsory with secured loans, when,

the loan is lets say 5k and the equity in the property is almost 100K?? and only other debts including mortgage would be covered several times over??

[elsinore]

I just Googled and picked this one at random. It seems to explain it pretty well.

 

Mortgage Indemnity Guarantee (MIG)

 

HTH

 

Elsinore

[elsinore]

If it's been added to a loan of £5000 in your circumstances then it looks like a rip-off!

 

Elsinore

[un1boy]

You shouldn't have to pay seperately for it, it is normally added to your premiums and most lenders actually cover the cost of it nowadays too - plus, it is only mortgages!!

 

I think you may have been missold it!!

[maybelline]

hey, are you saying I have been paying this all these years and its not supposed to be added to a secured loan??

 

had a look around on web, can only find mig in relation to mortgages and high LTV, really dont understand this either but it seems that I have paid this on each agreement, approx £1200 on top of the acceptance fee approx £300. will do some more reading around on this. thanks, I have been worried about this for a long time but just couldnt get advice.

[tamadus]

ok I'm going to try and quickly bring things up to date.

 

The court appearance this morning was a hearing for a repossession against my ex wife. Lasted about 10 minutes as the Judge could only allow that long. He confirmed the repossession would not happen as the arrears had already been paid. He was not happy that the mortgage company request for an adjournment was not available to him, whether thats a mistake by the court or not I don't know but it wasnt there. Obviously they didnt attend as they must have thought the adjournment was automatic lol. He has ordered them to attend for a full hearing so we can put forward the issues that have arisen. All in all exactly as I expected

 

Now MIG is a mortgage guarantee insurance, it only benefits the lender, and then only in the event of a repossession and selling the house fails to clear the amount owing. So it only affects secured loans.

 

I have contentions with this in the case above as they charged the person approx £1300 for it and then paid over £800 of the fee as commission to the mortgage broker.

 

It's usually added to the mortgage on completion, which obviously affect the charge for credit as interest will be calculated on it.

 

It also usually only applies if the loan amount is more than a set level, ie they decide it applies if you borrow more than say 80% of the property price. I also have issues with that on the above case but thats another story

 

Hope this helps