Static Caravan Ruined by flooding in October

[TAH]

Can you help,

I brought a static caravan 6 years ago for £10,000 and was not told the site my caravan is on floods.

It flooded really badly at the end of October and my caravan was sat in water (dirty, black water) for nearly 4 weeks and is completely damaged, unfortunately my insurance doesn’t cover flood damage,

can I claim back damages from the site as they are apparently a flood plain 3 and they allow the land to flood to help the EA to protect residential properties.

They were aware of the potential risk of flooding because they had a bad flood back in 2012, they did not have anything in place or did anything to prevent damage.

Also during the time the site was flooded the owners did not keep people informed officially only via their Facebook page (not often).

I’m trying to cover all avenues to try and recover some of my losses. 

Regards

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG. I'm sorry to hear about your problems. I see @dx100uk has amended your thread title for you.

I expect people will be along later to advise, please bear with us until they're able to get here.

What does your insurance policy say about flood damage please?

Best, HB

[TAH]

My insurance policy excludes flood damage as apparently the site is known to all insurance companies

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that. Could you let us see the wording from your policy document please, in case it's relevant?

HB

[TAH]

I have attached their standard policy but on my insurance schedule it states

“Variations to policy cover :
This insurance excludes loss or damage caused by flood. Flood is an inundation of water from the normal confines of any natural or artificial water course including but not limited to streams, rivers, culverts, lakes, ponds, reservoirs, canals, dams, coastal waters and/or the overflowing of water onto land arising as a direct consequence of rainfall.”

Did try to claim as storm damage because the 2/3 storms brought torrential rainfall.

I’m not sure if I can claim or how to against the sites public liability? 
 

Thanks

NACO_Policy.pdf

[BankFodder]

When did you first have sight of this policy containing this exclusion?
Was there any contract of sale when you bought the caravan? Did he refer to any exclusions or contain any disclaimer et cetera?

What is the value of the damage your caravan has sustained

[TAH]

Hi,

I noticed the exclusion when I brought the policy.

I brought my caravan from a previous owner on site via the caravan park my contract is passed from the previous owner to me apparently,

I have only just found out that my caravan was flooded back in 2012 but this was not disclosed to me, let alone any damage that was caused.

I’m under the impression that my caravan is a complete write off as the dirty black water actually went inside the caravan, about 6inches.

The caravan has mould inside, the doors are split and the smell is awful.

[stu007]

Hi

If this is a Caravan Park where your Static Caravan is situated I assume you pay a certain fee to the Caravan Park Owners for your Caravan to be located where it is and also as there has been previous flooding at this Caravan Park I would expect the Caravan Park Owners to have some sort of Flood Management Plan in place and also Business Insurance that covers Flooding.

Have a read of the following link on Managing flood risk for campsite and caravan park owners:

Managing flood risk for campsite and caravan park owners - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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How to manage the risk of flooding on your campsite, caravan park, holiday park or residential park.

 

Get the flooding history of a property in England:

Get the flooding history of a property in England - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

How to get the flooding history of a property in England.

 

Check for flooding:

Check for flooding - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

---

Find out if there’s flooding in your area: flood warnings, flood alerts plus river, sea and groundwater levels.

 

Have a look at this PDF from Environment Agency flooding minimising the risk Your Caravan / Camping Site is in a flood risk area:
Look specifically at page 5.

Quote

Your responsibilities as a site owner 

Occupiers Liability Act 1957

Under the provisions of the Occupiers Liability Act 1957, you have a duty of care to your customers.

This is likely to include making them aware of the risk of flooding to your site.

Environment Agency flooding minimising the risk Your Caravan.pdf

 

Occupiers’ Liability Act 1957:

Occupiers’ Liability Act 1957

WWW.LEGISLATION.GOV.UK

---

An Act to amend the law of England and Wales as to the liability of occupiers and others for injury or damage resulting to persons or goods lawfully on...

 

[BankFodder]

So I ask you –"when did you first have sight of this policy containing this exclusion?"
And you answer – "when I brought the policy"

And then I ask you – "what is the value of the damage your caravan has sustained"
and you answer that it is probably a complete write-off

 

 

[TAH]

Hi BankFodder, Stu007

This is correct BankFodder.

Thanks for all the info Stu007, very interesting reading

Regards

[BankFodder]

Let's try again –

 

when did you first have sight of this policy containing this exclusion? **Enter date here**

what is the value of the damage your caravan has sustained  **enter figure in pounds sterling here or approximate figure here**

[TAH]

Hi,

Apologies, 

when did you first have sight of this policy containing this exclusion? **28th October 2023**

what is the value of the damage your caravan has sustained  **complete caravan value £10k but new for old would be approx £50k**

[TAH]

Silly question, do you know if an insurance company can pursue a claim on the sites public liability or is this something I would have to do independently? 

[AndyOrch]

Topic moved to the appropriate forum  Insurance/Assurance Companies (Not Car Insurance) 

Please continue to post here.

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

Not really sure what you mean by this:

Quote

insurance company can pursue a claim on the sites public liability 

but the answer is probably no. You shouldn't expect any insurance company to do anything for you. Especially if you are referring to your own insurer which is already apparently disclaimed liability for anything to do with flooding on that site.

You say that you had first sight of the policy this year on 28 October. Is that when you first took out the policy? What insurer did you have before this?

I understand that you bought the caravan from a private seller – not from the site owner. This means that even if the site owner had a duty to reveal flooding to prospective purchasers of caravans on their sites, that wouldn't apply here because it wasn't their sale.

So the question then becomes whether the private seller of your caravan had a duty. Whether any contract documents in the agreement between you? I don't know anything about buying caravans but are their initial surveys et cetera?

And then, you get to a final problem which is that you are only entitled to bring legal actions within six years of the date of a breach. If there was a breach of contract and that breach, for instance, was the withholding of information by the private seller, then from the sounds of it six years has elapsed from that date and your right of action has also expired.

I'm going to say right now that it really doesn't look very good.

Presumably other caravan owners on the same site must've been affected. Have you any idea what they are doing?

[stu007]

Hi

You need to get a flooding report which is in the links I provided

You also really need to read the Evvironment Agency PDF properly and digest what I quoted also

Did you purchase the Caravan privately via the seller only or did you purchase the caravan via the Caravan Site only?

Can you post up in PDF Only your Sale/Purchase Documents redacted

You also need to write to the Caravan Site Owner requesting a copy of their Flood Management Plan

Due to previous flooding remember the Environment PDF the Caravan Site Owner as it a Business should have Business Insurance that covers Flooding

You also from that same PDF need to digest The Occupiers Liability Act 1957

[TAH]

Hi Stu007,

 

- I have read through and it seems that the site did not do any of the things recommended. No signage anywhere on site.

 I purchased the caravan from a previous owner on site but it had to go through their sales office as they handle the transaction from the sale and take a commission before handing the money to the seller.

 I have attached to sales agreement (blanked my details) and it was only the 1 page, nothing printed on the back or other pages.

 - I have emailed the caravan site to request a copy of their flood management plan and public liability details, don’t expect to get any response from them.

 - I am going to digest this information next.

Regards

 

RIVERSIDE CARAVAN CENTRE PURCHASE AGREEMENT.pdf

[dx100uk]

well need page 2 and any other paperwork you were given at the time of purchase. like T&C or conditions/use rules etc.

[TAH]

This is all I was given / have.

[dx100uk]

really?

this smells!!

 

[stu007]

Hi

I have to agree with dx100uk as that PDF on the bottom part does state overleaf so there is a second part to this document which we do need to see as well as any other document signed during this sale in PDF only.

That PDF also refers to:

1. Terms & Conditions - we need to see this PDF Only

2. Licence Agreement - we need to see this PDF Only

3. The PDF states The caravan will be insured through Jardine Lloyd Thompson unless you notify Riverside Caravan Centre within the next 14 day that you have taken out alternative insurance in which case no charge will be made for the cover in the intervening period.

Did you leave it and go with there Insurance Company or did you notify them and take out your own insurance within that 14 days?

Can you also clarify is this a Holiday Park where you holiday part of the year or is this a Residental Park where you permanently stay?  (got to ask but looking this place up in Bognor Regis it's a Holiday Park but need you to confirm that is that is also important info)

Can you clarify if this is Riverside Caravan Centre Bognor Regis we are dealing with?

If that PDF is all you were given then your next course of action is to send Riverside Caravan Centre a Subject Access Request (SAR) asking for 'ALL DATA' that simple phrase covers whatever format they hold that data in whether it be written, emails, recorded calls etc.

They then have 30 Calendar Days to respond but that time limit only starts when they acknowledge receipt of your SAR Request

So get that SAR sent to then asap 

[BankFodder]

Yes, we need to see the second page of the terms and conditions even if they weren't shown to you.

Also, I did ask you who you insured the van for before your present insurance – and you haven't replied. Is there a reason for this?

 

[TAH]

Apologies,

I have requested the information from the caravan park regarding the other pages to my sales agreement.

I have had different insurance companies over the years as every time its due to be renewed I look for the best deal,

I need to pull out my paperwork to see if I kept the information 

Yes the site is Riverside caravan centre in Bognor Regis which is a holiday park, it has a 8, 10 and 11 month area.

I know that some people on the 10 / 11 month, it’s their main residence even though the site doesn’t have a license for that.

Just been advised it has flooded again, it was clear last weekend but slowly rising again due to the rain full.

Some people on site that have flood cover insurance seems to be the ones on site for years but all the new people are either trying to salvage their vans or walking away and losing everything.

i have emailed the site for a copy of their flood management plan and the data on my sales agreement but not holding my breathe for a response.

Regards

 

[BankFodder]

Send them a subject access request

[TAH]

I have sent them an email regarding “SAR” but I’m not holding my breathe I get anything back.