Cap1 & CCA return

[Peterbard]

Got phone call today from a dca I think

Ring Ring

Hello

Is that Mr Bardsley

Speaking

Could I have your address and date of birth?

Who am I speaking to?

Michele

Hi Michele do I know you

No will you give me you r address and date of birth

Why would I give you that information?

So that we can identify you

So who are you?

I can’t tell you it’s the law.

I can’t tell you my mother always told me not to talk to strangers.

Click

Strange beings these debt collectors

[un1boy]

What tha fa??

 

What do you think goes through these people's heads?

[Guest The Terminator]

What tha fa??

 

Waht do you think goes through these people's heads?

 

un1boy I don't know what goe's through their heads but I know what I'd like to put through their heads.

[Guest The Terminator]

Got phone call today from a dca I think

 

So that we can identify you

So who are you?

I can’t tell you it’s the law.

I can’t tell you my mother always told me not to talk to strangers.

Click

 

Strange beings these debt collectors

 

Anyone got any idea what that law is.

[un1boy]

un1boy I don't know what goe's through their heads but I know what I'd like to put through their heads.

 

Haha

[un1boy]

Anyone got any idea what that law is.

 

Their law. Come on Terminator, you know as well as I do that these institutions are above the standard law of this country and can do what they want.

 

(Yeah, right!)

[Guest The Terminator]

Their law. Come on Terminator, you know as well as I do that these institutions are above the standard law of this country and can do what they want.

 

(Yeah, right!)

 

I agree but how much longer are they going to have their own way?

[joneshousehold]

Can one of you venerable contributors have a look at this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/58125-cca-time-limit.html

 

I am not too sure about the advice being given. Is this right because to me it looks like this person has made a CCA request and the creditor or DCA has failed to supply a copy of the agreement.

[un1boy]

I agree but how much longer are they going to have their own way?

 

Not for much longer by the time you and Tamadus have finished, eh?

[un1boy]

Can one of you venerable contributors have a look at this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/58125-cca-time-limit.html

 

I am not too sure about the advice being given. Is this right because to me it looks like this person has made a CCA request and the creditor or DCA has failed to supply a copy of the agreement.

 

Hi Jones,

 

If they can provide a copy of an agreement, but one that is unenforcable (ie has one signature, is not dated, does not have the T&C's with it) then the debt does legally remain and can be requested by the lender. You see it only means that they cannot legally enforce the current agreement or its T&C's.

 

However, they tend to refund the money etc because if we report them to Trading Standards hey will get fiend a hefty hefty amount, plus failure to comply with a CCA request is a criminal offence punishable by a fine of £2500 and/or a length of time in prison - it is mentioned on this thread I think.

 

If they don't have the agreement at all then it is my contention that the debt doesn't exist at all and therefore cannot be requested by the lender.

[Guest The Terminator]

Can one of you venerable contributors have a look at this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/58125-cca-time-limit.html

 

I am not too sure about the advice being given. Is this right because to me it looks like this person has made a CCA request and the creditor or DCA has failed to supply a copy of the agreement.

 

Thats exactly the way that I see it.

[un1boy]

I can see that too - what should we do?

[Guest The Terminator]

I can see that too - what should we do?

 

And because they haven't supplied a copy of the agreement not only have they comitted a criminal offence but the debt is also unenforceable without them going to court then the judge is not going to be to happy if they then supply the agreement.Also there would be a breach of the DPA.I can see one big lump of poo hitting the fan here.

[joneshousehold]

I have posted another message for Bubbles. I am always anxious about disagreeing with others because I have only a limited knowledge of this sort of thing. I just hope for Bubbles sake I have read this right because then he/she will finally be able to get the DCA and the bank of their back.

 

Thanks for looking

[un1boy]

I can see one big lump of poo hitting the fan here.

 

I agree.

[Guest The Terminator]

I have posted another message for Bubbles. I am always anxious about disagreeing with others because I have only a limited knowledge of this sort of thing. I just hope for Bubbles sake I have read this right because then he/she will finally be able to get the DCA and the bank of their back.

 

Thanks for looking

 

Hi Jones I've just read it and it is correct in what you say

[un1boy]

I have posted another message for Bubbles. I am always anxious about disagreeing with others because I have only a limited knowledge of this sort of thing. I just hope for Bubbles sake I have read this right because then he/she will finally be able to get the DCA and the bank of their back.

 

Thanks for looking

 

It looks to me like you handled it pretty well Jones.

[joneshousehold]

Awwww shucks! Thanks

[un1boy]

Right guys I am going to have to call it a nite - I have been studying for my mortgage exams all evening and I am tired.

 

Good night to all, sleep well and I'll catch up with this thread and everyone else in the morning!!

[elizabeth1]

Phew!!! Well this stuff took some reading - but I got here in the end!!

 

One thing that does baffle me is - if many of the CCA's don't appear to be with the banks/credit card companies through various reasons like I am reading here (some banks destroy docs, some never execute proper agreements etc..) THEN how is it that the DCA's plan to get their money other than the usual scare tactics??

 

Surely if the CCA's exist then the Banks & CC Companies would be enforcing the debts themselves or forwarding the CCA's & account history along with the debts?

 

I am totally baffled as to how the DCA's are taking court action on debts where there are no proper CCA & SAR materials - how do the DCA's plan this will work?? BUT more to the point how do they expect the claims to go ahead without supplying the required data to support their claims??

 

In my own case I need to concentrate on slamming back a separate claim for their lack of compliance with the data requested?

 

How Would I fill out the particulars of claim?? it's not money being claimed - rather the lack of account information as requested.

 

I think I read enough to make my head spin on this thread tonite - so am going to have a think now as to the best way to do this stuff.

[un1boy]

Elizabeth, I think what happens is that when consumers get their court cummons, they rarely turn up so he Judge enters a Judgement and thats why he doesn't ask to see the docs.

 

If the consumer turns up, the lender/DCA rarely do and that's why you hear of people paying something back at £1 a week for the rest of their lives!!

 

That's my understanding, but I may be wrong!!

[thefenz]

Been reading the various threads and a little confused.

 

How does it stand if a credit card company cannot provide a copy of the original application form or a Consumer Credit Act Agreement. Is the balance outstanding stil enforceable.

 

Also, does a credit card agreement have to be signed. just applied for an MBNA card online and they sent the card without my signing any agreement. Would the debt stil be enforceable. The card has arrived and has been used.

[un1boy]

Been reading the various threads and a little confused.

 

How does it stand if a credit card company cannot provide a copy of the original application form or a Consumer Credit Act Agreement. Is the balance outstanding stil enforceable.

 

Also, does a credit card agreement have to be signed. just applied for an MBNA card online and they sent the card without my signing any agreement. Would the debt stil be enforceable. The card has arrived and has been used.

 

Put simply, if there is no agreement then there is no debt, it can't be enforced and doesn't exist. That's if there is no agreement.

 

As for signing, as far as I am aware yes, section 61 of the CCA sets out the format of an executed agreement:

 

61 Signing of agreement

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

 

However, as far as I understand it the new CCA regulations coming into force in Arpril allow for electronic signatures.

[elizabeth1]

Un1boy,

 

Yes I reckon you re right cause most people would usually adit a debt and fill in the income expendiutre form that comes with claim and then offer to pay xxx pounds a week etc.. so no questions are ever asked regarding the CCA's etc.. (Mmmm!! clever stuff??) so there is never a need for any person appear in court in respect of defendant cause they fully admitted the claimants claims in full and have offered to settle debt straight away!!

 

So the DCA's are basically "winging" it cause they've taken advantage of "joe public" not knowing their rights etc.. over the CCA stuff etc..

 

This is what I was thinking - just wanted to get it clear in my head cause it seems so "simple" I thought I'd missed the whole point. Thanks for your help - it's so simple it seems untrue? I had to triple check that cause I thought I'd mis understood something. I came to these thoughts last November and thought I'd been going MAD for the answer to be so simple - but this has confirmed everything I initially thought.

[un1boy]

Un1boy,

 

Yes I reckon you re right cause most people would usually adit a debt and fill in the income expendiutre form that comes with claim and then offer to pay xxx pounds a week etc.. so no questions are ever asked regarding the CCA's etc.. (Mmmm!! clever stuff??) so there is never a need for any person appear in court in respect of defendant cause they fully admitted the claimants claims in full and have offered to settle debt straight away!!

 

So the DCA's are basically "winging" it cause they've taken advantage of "joe public" not knowing their rights etc.. over the CCA stuff etc..

 

This is what I was thinking - just wanted to get it clear in my head cause it seems so "simple" I thought I'd missed the whole point. Thanks for your help - it's so simple it seems untrue? I had to triple check that cause I thought I'd mis understood something. I came to these thoughts last November and thought I'd been going MAD for the answer to be so simple - but this has confirmed everything I initially thought.

 

Yep, you see, I know people that have received a letter from a DCA saying "here is your court date" and they get scared, thinking "Im not going, they will win"

 

But bear in mind that the consumer most probably hasn't contacted the DCA or the DCA haven't contacted the consumer so the courts issue a date (just like if you dont enter your AQ or defence on time).

 

The date would not have been issued if the consumer would have entered a defence would it? Not at all......

 

My advise is to stand up to these people, issue the CCA/DPA request where relevant and if it goes to court, then at least defend the action.

 

At the end of the day, if I sent a summons to you for 12k and you didn't defend it, what are the courts going to think? "Oh, well elizabeth must owe him it, shes just hiding away from it".

 

So, they issue a court date and you don't turn up. The court think, right ok Elizabeth you'll have to do an attachment of earnings to pay un1boy back.

 

That is a VERY simplistic example - but remember to defend it and put your eveidence to the Judge, then there is no defence is there?