B+B Mortgage shortfall sold to mortgage express now DCA Chasing.

[confusedbunny]

Thank you, yes I will send two letters this week....hopefully that shall put an end to their call pressurising me

[sillygirl1]

Think about it logically, they have already ENFORCED a CCJ for this debt so why would they want to go for another one, and judging by the current knowledge of these risky deals judges may sympathise with you and decide to relook at the case (has been known).

 

I wouldn't offer anything and continue to refute all allegations of implied debt on the grounds that you had a better deal, they refused it and substantially have lost far more through their own negligence.

[confusedbunny]

Sorry, I do not understand your reply. They do not have a CCJ yet, are you suggesting I do not offer a token payment?

[sillygirl1]

Yes, it is a low priority debt until the point they try for a CCJ, then you simply point out they already have had a chance at this money by enforcing the other CCJ and game should be over.

 

Remember mortgage shortfalls are a very grey area, caused mostly by the negligence of the lender, not by you.

 

They have already had the stone so don't let them take the blood too.

[sequenci]

Sorry, I do not understand your reply. They do not have a CCJ yet, are you suggesting I do not offer a token payment?

 

They've used the courts for their rpossession order - but I don't think they've got their money judgment (CCJ) based upon what youv'e been saying. I think Sillygirl may have got her wires crossed.

[confusedbunny]

I think sillygirl is referring to the CCJ (possession order to take the house,maybe?)

 

They have not summoned me to court yet for this shortfall but harassing me to pay the debt of £63k!!!

 

I have printed off the letter to stop harassment calls and another letter offering token payments....I am just not sure at what stage I dispute the amount they are requesting as I had a few major problems before the repossession:

 

1.They made me incure approx. £14k in mortgage instalements un-necessarily..

.they would argue that they were being sympathetic to me but I would say they are are business and were irresponsible!!

 

 

They did not even attempt possession proceeding until after about 16 months! A responsible lender surely would have initiated proceedings 3-4 months after missed payments, no?

 

 

I think they knew it was in negativity equity and didn't want it sold in the early stages maybe, which inturn caused me major financial problems.....

 

2.They refused to give consent via my solicitor to proceed with a buyer (who offered approx. £20k more than what they sold it for!) a week before exchange! All because (my solicitor advised not to sign) they wanted me to sign a form to acknowledge the debt.....

 

[sequenci]

I think sillygirl is referring to the CCJ (possession order to take the house,maybe?)

 

That was a possession order for the property. They'll then need to get a money judgment.

[Lea_HTH]

That was a possession order for the property. They'll then need to get a money judgment.

 

Outright possession (or even suspended PO) is usually accompanied by a money judgment. OP will find that information on the original order from the court.

[sillygirl1]

From the stage they refused a better sale they effectively (at least some people would see it that way) created the shortfall, so offering a token payment will only tie you into this alleged debt for the next 12 years (as a mortgage shortfall is considered to be 'similar to a mortgage').

 

I've tried to put it in simple terms as I am not sure of legal terminology at all.

 

So, if you want to be harassed for the next 12 years go ahead and make a token payment.

 

Otherwise inform them that you do not consider liability for the alleged shorfall debt and demand a full set of paperwork, there is a template letter on this site for that.... you will be surprised how their figures are made up of charge after charge and no complete breakdown of the period the interest is calculated from, nor the interest rate used in calculating said charge.

[sequenci]

Outright possession (or even suspended PO) is usually accompanied by a money judgment. OP will find that information on the original order from the court.

 

Thanks Lea, I've not encountered that with the few I've been involved with (it's been a while as it's not really my area these days). I know that's the case with rent possessions - so I did wonder.

 

How would they know how much to request as per the judgment - or is it simply the full outstanding amount, and when the house is sold the proceeds get deducted off the judgment amount?

[sillygirl1]

Sequenci, the main difference between a rent repo case and a mortgage repo case is that a mortgage is a 'secured loan' and rent is usually a non-secured loan. Therefore the money order part usually is embedded in a mortgage repo case.

 

It was in my one and the cheeky whatsits have said they will 'secure their interest' in the property by repossession - completely forgetting they did this over 6 years ago!

 

Usually they go for the full outstanding mortgage plus 'anticipated costs'. When the house is sold as repo there is usually a major loss to the person who was repossessed - as charge after charge is piled on, in my case it was £4,500 'asset management fee', additional legal fees of £2,400 and estate agent fees of about £2,000. House was valued at £170,000 and sold for £165,000 so they created the shortfall with fees alone.

[sequenci]

Cheers SG.

 

With rent the court has to specifically agree a money judgment at the time of allow the possession or suspended possession order; so I assume it'll be the same with mortgage cases. The last time I was in court for rent (or indeed mortgage) cases was in 2006. It's been a while!

[Lea_HTH]

Thanks Lea, I've not encountered that with the few I've been involved with (it's been a while as it's not really my area these days). I know that's the case with rent possessions - so I did wonder.

 

How would they know how much to request as per the judgment - or is it simply the full outstanding amount, and when the house is sold the proceeds get deducted off the judgment amount?

 

The money judgment is for the amount outstanding at the time the possession order is made - it's the least amount that the mortgagee will be entitled to, thereafter they are entitled (by contract) to add any further charges that they incur in the possession of the property and up to and including the sale. It can cost as much as 40k (or more!) on top of a mortgage to repossess, which is why, if there is some equity, mortgagors should seek, as far as they can, to sell the property themselves and ask the courts for permission to do this, citing the fact that properties that are occupied sell for more than those that have been repossessed. Where there is equity in the property (at least 50k) a judge can be persuaded by this argument, so long as the sale doesn't take longer than say 6 months, even when no payments or low payments are being made towards the mortgage.

 

Sillygirl's explanation about the 'secured' issue isn't correct - a money judgment is a money judgment, it has no bearing on whether the loan is secured or not (all mortgages are secure) - and rent is never a 'loan'; a money judgment is simply a court order ratifying in stone that the defendant owes the claimant a specified sum on that specified date. Money judgments are given in possession cases involving rent - both social and private rentals, when a suspended or outright possession order is granted.

[sillygirl1]

Thanks for the explanation LeeHTH, I don't normally get involved in repossession cases, so I will bow out of this one.

 

I only posted because it was a shortfall sale and I was involved in one - still get chased for it now and again but they keep running away.

[sequenci]

I only posted because it was a shortfall sale and I was involved in one - still get chased for it now and again but they keep running away.

 

That's been going on for years now, hasn't it?

 

Glad you're on top of it! Kudos to you!

[sillygirl1]

That's been going on for years now, hasn't it?

 

Glad you're on top of it! Kudos to you!

 

Yes, since October 2006, involving GMAC and London & Scottish - both companies in administration very shortly after repossessing me, multiple changes of legal teams (three with the same address for London & Scottish!) and basically I just send the same letter back, got no assets, no money, so if you want to take me to court I will then become bankrupt.

[sequenci]

so if you want to take me to court I will then become bankrupt.

 

Works a treat, every time!

[confusedbunny]

Dear Caggers,

 

I recieved a letter from my mortgage lender stating they have sold the debt (£65k shortfall after i was repossessed in 2011) to a DCA,

 

 

what are their powers to enforce this debt please?

 

 

Can they take my car?

 

 

(Worth just £1700)

 

Any advice is appreciated. ☺

[obiter dictum]

Simple answer is that a DCA has no powers, zilch

 

Only a court can enforce any debt

 

Your car is safe

[fkofilee]

Depends... Are they Administering (DCA) or Owning (DP) ?

[citizenB]

Did the original lender obtain a money order against you when they repossessed ?

 

From your post, it would appear that they have assigned/sold the account to a 3rd party debt purchaser - who would be able to issue a claim in their own right for the shortfall.

 

They cannot simply take your car, unless and until they have issued a claim against you - then if they were to win their claim, then they would be able to use bailiffs as one way of enforcing the judgement.

 

Have you reclaimed any penalty/default charges that the original lender might have added to the account ?

 

Have you established that all the charges made to the balance they are pursuing are correct ?

[confusedbunny]

Depends... Are they Administering (DCA) or Owning (DP) ?

 

The letter quotes:

 

"As a result, your file has now been place with a third party debt collection agent ××× ××××××××× ×××, who have been instructed to pursue you on our behalf"

 

Does that mean they are just admistering the debt then? If so, what does this mean?

 

Did the original lender obtain a money order against you when they repossessed ?

 

From your post, it would appear that they have assigned/sold the account to a 3rd party debt purchaser - who would be able to issue a claim in their own right for the shortfall.

 

They cannot simply take your car, unless and until they have issued a claim against you - then if they were to win their claim, then they would be able to use bailiffs as one way of enforcing the judgement.

 

Have you reclaimed any penalty/default charges that the original lender might have added to the account ?

 

Have you established that all the charges made to the balance they are pursuing are correct ?

 

I will have to get back to you when i dig the paperwork out to clarify if a money order was obtained, i cannot remember.

 

I havent challenged any penalty charges etc. I disagree with the shortfall as i had a buyer who was willing to pay £25k more and they refused. I do not know when or how i challenge this (i have all the evidence)

[dx100uk]

If they are saying that the dca is acting for them

I would suspect it's not been sold on

 

Bottom line is the dca is powerless

 

Has anyone actually asked you to pay the shortfall yet?

 

Dx

[confusedbunny]

The lender has written a few times in the last 4 years since they repossessed the houre but i have not acknowledged them as i was waiting for them to persue me via the courts, so i can challenge the amount they are claiming. I had a purchaser and they wouldnt give consent to sell 5 days prior to exchange, then sold it for £25k less.

[dx100uk]

Good move

 

Have you sent the lender and sar?