Unfair parking ticket!!

[HJB]

On 12 July i had a very depressing experience with a parking attendant in wandsworth outside my house. We have residents parking in our street from 9.30-10.30am every day. At 9.30am i parked just outside my house on a yellow line for about 2 minutes as i had forgotten my phone. When i had got the phone and went outside again, i found a parking attendant standing looking at my car and his watch. I apologised to him, explained i was in the process of moving house etc etc and was shocked when he did not even acknowledge my presence but continued to look at his watch.

 

Realising what was up (aren't I allowed 5 minutes leyway before a ticket is issued?), I got in the car, did a 3 point turn and pulled over on the adjacent street to look at my map (car still running). The parking attendant started printing out a ticket and started to chase after me so I pulled away. The ticket was not stuck to my car and therefore I assumed that it had not been issued.

 

Today I received a charge certificate from Wandsworth Borough Council demanding £120 in reference to the ticket that was never issued. In addition, they are saying that a Notice to Owner was issued on 10 August which I never received.

 

i am now in the very depressing situation that I have 14 days to act before legal action is taken with apparently no right to appeal as apparently this can only done at the PCN stage.

 

I'm clearly not keen to have bailiffs knocking on the door but it will irritate me enormously to pay up. Anyone with any thoughts on my legal position would be most welcome. Help!

[june34]

the ticket needs to be attatched to your car, (anywhere it doesnt matter) before it is legal however its your word against his and he has a target to meet so he will keep it up saying you were issued with it.

[HJB]

Any views on whether i have a right to appeal now that it has reached the charge certificate stage? Also, given that we never received the Notice to Owner the charge has now gone upto £120 - do the Council have to prove that the Notice to Owner was sent out? Anyone got any advice or is it a case of we just have to pay up?

thanks

[lee6370]

Write to them stating this is the first you have heard of it and wish to appeal. State your grounds for appeal, and also tell them that since you never received the ticket, you reserve the right to pay at the discounted rate.

 

They should allow your appeal, if for no other reason that when they take you to court they know you will stand up and say "I never got the ticket and when i found out they wouldn't let me appeal". They know that in the interests of jutices they will not be able to enforce the ticket if they haven't been seen to act fairly.

 

If all goes well you should get your appeal (the council will turn it down they always do), you now have a choice.

 

1. Take it further i.e. NPAS

2. Pay up, (but you can now agrue that you should pay at the discountewd rate of £30.00)

 

If you go to NPAS, bear in mind that you are admitting that you parked illegally, (there is no 5 minute grace, this time is for wardens to make sure you are parked illegally and not doing something you are entitled to do e.g. unloading, but they do not have to wait 5 minutes.) so if it comes down to your word against the wardens you will lose.

[Michael Browne]

Section 12.11 is about drive-aways

 

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_roads/documents/page/dft_roads_027631.pdf

 

Ask for photographic proof of the ticket on your car

[BaldyBaldwin]

the pcn should also contain the serial number of your tax disc, if you watch parking wardens issue a ticket with the use of digital camera thet will always take a picture of the disc.

just reply saying that there was no pcn attached to your car, if they cannot supply the tax disc number, then they will proberly cancel the pcn due to "technical reasons" if, as has happened to me, they write back and ask you for the tax disc no. do not supply it.

if on the other hand they can supply the number it will weaken your case, and the best you can do is try to get the reduced rate.

[griffiths5]

I have been in this situation before, I won my case on the grounds that the council need to prove it was issued and without photo evidence that not possible and its their word against yours.

[BaldyBaldwin]

sorry, just noticed the bit about notice to owner, that has also happened to me (i,m a licensed taxi driver) they should send you a form that you take to the local court, cant remember if its majestrates or county, as i have been to both over parking tickets. they will stamp it and then you return it to your local authority and then you get the right to appeal at the reduced rate.

[dw190]

You wil find the form here.

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/cms/files/OOTApplicationPack.pdf

 

Complete the form and take them to your local county court to swear the declaration. You will not be charged for the Stat Dec or for having it sworn.

 

Your PCN should then revert back to them sending you a Notice to Owner.

 

You can then make your representations.

[sri_130]

Hi,

Similar issue to me

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/32908-4-months-later-letter.html

 

Just wondered about the individuals who had won, how did you word the letter etc? any case I can extract some of the text?!!!

Cheers

[BotB]

The NPAS decision linked below about driveaways is worth reading.

I had a similar experience with Manchester City Council last year - in that case, the warden had inputted my vehicle details before the P&D ticket had expired and then waited for a few minutes before printing it out so the time stamp on the PCN would make it look like the ticket had expired. Unfortunately for her, I came back before she could print the ticket. It was cancelled immediately after I wrote to the Council.

 

http://www.parkingandtrafficappeals.gov.uk/user_documents/YoniLaminavTFL.pdf

[amandafairman]

The PCN has to be attached to the windscreen or handed to the driver to be legally issued, say that you were not even told you were getting a ticket

[sandraroff]

a couple of years ago, in canterbury, my daughter was issued a parking ticket for parking outside my pub while she was unloading the boot of the car. yes, a double yellow line but we were being continually told by the council that we were always allowed 20 mins before a ticket was given. she gt the ticket in the time it took to get from th car to the secondfloor of the pub. seconds!!!! but they kept insisting that she had been gone for more than 20 mins which was just untrue. we argued about it saying that the wardens in canterbury never stoo and watched, but went off somewhere for the 20 mins then came back, and teh car they saw when they came back, wasnt the same car that had been there first of all. they wouldnt have any of it. interestingly, the parking notice said that it was a blue car and she had a green car, so we took it all the way to tribunal. this process took almost ayear!!! we took along the registration document and after the head of parking had really given it some heavy talk, even though the photo taken was such a bad photo you couldnt even see that there was a car there, and mr.adjudicator asked of there was anything ese we wanted to add to our case before he made his decision, i just said 'actually yes. we dont have a blue car' showed him the reg doc with which he said 'case dismissed'

[I_have_a_proper_job]

I do not understand the issue about residents parking and the single yellow line where you in the resident day or not?

A single yellow line is a no parking waiting restriction (loading only) if this was in force you were technically in contravention the minute you left your car.

Most councils give 5 minutes observation to check if loading is taking place but Wandsworth give 2 minutes which they are entitled to do.

The ticket should be attatched to the vehicle but like previous posters state its your word against theirs.

The VEL tax disc number is not required on the PCN under the RTA 1991 otherwise untaxed vehicles would not get parking tickets it is just extra info to prove the councils case like the car colour etc which also is not needed by law.

You cannot involve the courts in London as parking is not a criminal offence you have to go to the parking appeals adjudicator.

Photos of the vehicle are also not needed to prove the councils case they just increase the odds in their favour many councils do not even use cameras.

[patdavies]

A single yellow line is a no parking waiting restriction (loading only) if this was in force you were technically in contravention the minute you left your car.

 

It can be, but it isn't necessarily. A single yellow line signifies that a restriction exists for a period less then 'at any time'.

 

The actual restriction must be posted on signs parallel to the road - at least one per length of yellow line - or identically on all CPZ entry signs. A CPZ fails if any single sign on any possible entrance to the CPZ is defective, regardless of whether the driver entered that way or otherwise.

[I_have_a_proper_job]

I did say 'if it was in force' since the time of operation was not made clear. I am quite aware it is less than at anytime but the original poster was under this missconception that you could park for 5 mins which was the point I was correcting.

[patdavies]

Fair enough

[star27]

i have just sucessfully won a case here in southport, when i parked for three hours on lines i considered were not enforcable citing case healeyvdavis, which the council rejected, but was unheld by the NPAS AJUDICATOR.-------------my advise is to go all the way if the yellow lines do not conform to the regulations, and take plenty of pictures.

attend the hearing in person, the council will just send loads of maps and waffle.in my case, the lines were double, double for a length of 12 metres, that is, two sets of double side by side, and no T bars plus gaps where the road had been repaired.the council said the lines were enforcable under my car, but i argued that one portion cannot be legal and the rest unenforcible,in other words, the whole sign must be according to regulations to be effective.-----------all this costs nothing, so take "em all the way, and notify the local press when you are advised you were right all along!

[NIXONKEITH]

HI my names keith and i got stuck in a lift whilst repairing a photocopier in newbury and was late back for my parking ticket.and had a penalty charge i appealed explaining my situation but they said in so many words tough,is ther anything i can do as £70 is a lot of money to me.

[patdavies]

HI my names keith and i got stuck in a lift whilst repairing a photocopier in newbury and was late back for my parking ticket.and had a penalty charge i appealed explaining my situation but they said in so many words tough,is ther anything i can do as £70 is a lot of money to me.

 

You had a Fixed Penalty Notice - Newbury is not decriminalised parking. The only courses of action left to you are pay the FPN or take your case to the Magistrates' Court - be aware that to do the latter, you must follow the instructions on the FPN; if you do nothing, the next thing is bailiffs.

 

I would suggest that if you are going to Court, I would obtain some evidence Statement? Call out sheet?) about being stuck in the lift.

[green_and_mean]

You had a Fixed Penalty Notice - Newbury is not decriminalised parking. The only courses of action left to you are pay the FPN or take your case to the Magistrates' Court - be aware that to do the latter, you must follow the instructions on the FPN; if you do nothing, the next thing is bailiffs.

 

I would suggest that if you are going to Court, I would obtain some evidence Statement? Call out sheet?) about being stuck in the lift.

 

 

Unless of course it was in a Car Park when it would be an Excess Charge Notice

[Axlechaos]

My son parked on an Aberdeen city centre street overnight, and went back the next day to pick up his car. Some weeks later he received a £60 penalty notice, payable within 30 days - or else. It related to the previously noted overnight stay, when he received a £30 penalty notice. This was apparently attached to his car at the time, but was not there when he went to pick it up.

 

My question is, is this a legal way of issuing fines in somebody's absence? Even if the warden took a photograph, there is nothing stopping somebody from removing it - or indeed being blown away by the wind! Does anybody have a view on this?

[Jason-B]

Any update on the outcome?

[Axlechaos]

Yes, thanks for asking. The authorities agreed for him to pay the original fine - it just goes to show that it is always worth appealing!